Building Sephiroth in 5e

[layinlow]

Just watched a video of someone trying to make a build as a pc for him. They went high-elf bladesinger with 1 level rogue and seemed kinda medium but sparked my interest in making a seph character. He's too op to translate 1 to 1 but if anyone has any ideas for it i'd be interested to hear them!

[Expired]

Just watched a video of someone trying to make a build as a pc for him. They went high-elf bladesinger with 1 level rogue and seemed kinda medium but sparked my interest in making a seph character. He's too op to translate 1 to 1 but if anyone has any ideas for it i'd be interested to hear them!
I actually disagree with him being a High-Elf—he's either VHuman or more like a Simic Hybrid because he is the product of relations between Hojo and Lucretia which resulted in a Human fetus that is then continually injected with Jenova's cells in utero.
As for Sephiroth's background and class, he definitely has the Soldier background and is more like an Eldritch Knight Fighter. He clearly used his katana (Masamune) moreso than any casting but did have his times when he used materia. For the build, choose either Simic Hybrid or VHuman with PAM at level 1 and a Glaive (reflavor it as a katana—Masamune is ridiculously long in FFVII) and take GWM, Sentinel, and Tough. Prioritize maxing your Str (unless you will find Gauntlets of Ogre Power/Belt of Giant's Strength). For added RP, take Magic Initiate/Ritual Caster.

[SociopathFriend]

Let's see- he's actually a lot more tricky than most people give him credit for.
Everyone remembers the giant katana but he's actually got a very large amount of magic involved.

Illusions - Sephiroth is capable of showing people things that do not physically exist: memories, sounds, images, thoughts, entire villages and the like.
Mental Domination - Sephiroth can exert his will over others to a terrifying degree so long as he can connect to them. Cloud is helpless as Sephiroth almost forces him to strike Aeris down and even from the afterlife Sephiroth's will is great enough to warp the minds of children.
I believe he even demonstrates telepathy and mind-reading.
And of course the multiple spells he uses in battle that are magic- whether from Materia or from his later Lifestream dip. Along with the flight and whatnot.
In fact he accumulates so much power it outright alters his form into the Bizarro/Safer nightmare you see.

I would actually think he's a fairly compelling case for a GOO-lock.

Think about it:
While he was born abnormally into battle you can fit that under the race and background.
After that however the defining 'change' is Sephiroth being granted knowledge forbidden to him- knowledge of his birth, knowledge of Jenova, knowledge of the Ancients- knowledge and being unable to face these truths is what turned Sephiroth into the villain.

And what does he do as a villain? Immediately grab onto this cosmic plan of a being he doesn't entirely understand to replicate it because that's what he thinks the being would want.
Jenova's dead but her will still manifests itself in the one who draws power from her.
Later on his larval form, Kadaj, outright notes he really doesn't know what Jenova wants which is his drive to bring back Sephiroth in the first place.

Sephiroth is a GOO-lock that became so powerful he surpassed the being he drew power from and himself became something similar where he's become a fixed part of the planet's lifeforce and can return if enough people remember him.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Just look at that hair. He's too emo to be anything but a Bladelock.

[layinlow]

I actually disagree with him being a High-Elf—he's either VHuman or more like a Simic Hybrid because he is the product of relations between Hojo and Lucretia which resulted in a Human fetus that is then continually injected with Jenova's cells in utero.
As for Sephiroth's background and class, he definitely has the Soldier background and is more like an Eldritch Knight Fighter. He clearly used his katana (Masamune) moreso than any casting but did have his times when he used materia. For the build, choose either Simic Hybrid or VHuman with PAM at level 1 and a Glaive (reflavor it as a katana—Masamune is ridiculously long in FFVII) and take GWM, Sentinel, and Tough. Prioritize maxing your Str (unless you will find Gauntlets of Ogre Power/Belt of Giant's Strength). For added RP, take Magic Initiate/Ritual Caster.

Thanks for the response ^^ definitely agree with soldier background. Also mostly agree with not being high elf, vhuman, symic hybrid, aasimar, all probably suit him better. I was thinking about the EK as well it seems perfect only problem to me is it loses some of the spells that are quite known from him.Meteor swarm being a clear one even though that was the black materia, major image could maybe work for the clones but maybe simulacrum would be better so they can act. Also between the different elemental spells and summoning stuff it seems like a bit much for ek Outside of that though if you could find a way to call a meteor they're prob nearly perfect. it might be the closest we can do tho

[Expired]

Thanks for the response ^^ definitely agree with soldier background. Also mostly agree with not being high elf, vhuman, symic hybrid, aasimar, all probably suit him better. I was thinking about the EK as well it seems perfect only problem to me is it loses some of the spells that are quite known from him.Meteor swarm being a clear one even though that was the black materia, major image could maybe work for the clones but maybe simulacrum would be better so they can act. Also between the different elemental spells and summoning stuff it seems like a bit much for ek Outside of that though if you could find a way to call a meteor they're prob nearly perfect. it might be the closest we can do tho
In the case of getting spells that match the materia he used and for his most iconic one, similar to Meteor Swarm, you'd need to be a Sorcerer or Wizard to cast it. I'd argue that if he wasn't an EK he'd definitely be a Divine Soul or Shadow Sorcerer 17/Hexblade Pact of the Blade Warlock 3 with his pact weapon as a longsword/glaive reflavored as an Odachi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōdachi).

[Starbuck_II]

Let's see- he's actually a lot more tricky than most people give him credit for.
Everyone remembers the giant katana but he's actually got a very large amount of magic involved.

Illusions - Sephiroth is capable of showing people things that do not physically exist: memories, sounds, images, thoughts, entire villages and the like.
Mental Domination - Sephiroth can exert his will over others to a terrifying degree so long as he can connect to them. Cloud is helpless as Sephiroth almost forces him to strike Aeris down and even from the afterlife Sephiroth's will is great enough to warp the minds of children.
I believe he even demonstrates telepathy and mind-reading.
And of course the multiple spells he uses in battle that are magic- whether from Materia or from his later Lifestream dip. Along with the flight and whatnot.
In fact he accumulates so much power it outright alters his form into the Bizarro/Safer nightmare you see.

Jenova.

None of those were Sephiroth (except for Bizarro/Safer but he is a god then).


Spoiler, the Septh you thought you were chasing? The real Sephiroth was cocooned in a giant crystal in the Northern Crater until Cloud (who was being controlled by Jenova at the time) set him free by giving him the Black materia a second time much later in the game.
Then who stabbed the President? Jenova.

Who mind controlled Cloud? Jenova.
Who stabbed Aeris? Jenova.

Why do you think you always have to fight a piece of her after seeing 'Sephiroth'?


But if you recreating nostalgia, you have a good idea.

[SociopathFriend]

Jenova.

None of those were Sephiroth (except for Bizarro/Safer but he is a god then).

They're Sephiroth in mind- just not in body. Sephiroth/the Mini-Roths can do just about all of that in Advent Children and that's long after Jenova's body was capable of walking around under its own power.

Kadaj shapeshifts to the form the people who are looking at him remember for example. Shapeshifting.
Kadaj can take over the minds of the children to control them. Mental domination.
Even Cloud at one point started having flashbacks to Sephiroth and the weird eyes- indicating Sephiroth was attacking his mind.

Arguably Kadaj even shows limited illusions like starting to shift between himself and Sephiroth when he was staring down Rufus.

Even anti-Jenova-bro Cloud can fly once he busts out Limit Breaks to get enough power.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Just watched a video of someone trying to make a build as a pc for him. They went high-elf bladesinger with 1 level rogue and seemed kinda medium but sparked my interest in making a seph character. He's too op to translate 1 to 1 but if anyone has any ideas for it i'd be interested to hear them!

Eldritch Knight Fighter + Plot Armor + Background: Neckbeard

[layinlow]

They're Sephiroth in mind- just not in body. Sephiroth/the Mini-Roths can do just about all of that in Advent Children and that's long after Jenova's body was capable of walking around under its own power.

Kadaj shapeshifts to the form the people who are looking at him remember for example. Shapeshifting.
Kadaj can take over the minds of the children to control them. Mental domination.
Even Cloud at one point started having flashbacks to Sephiroth and the weird eyes- indicating Sephiroth was attacking his mind.

Arguably Kadaj even shows limited illusions like starting to shift between himself and Sephiroth when he was staring down Rufus.

Even anti-Jenova-bro Cloud can fly once he busts out Limit Breaks to get enough power.
Wouldnt Shapeshift in that case just be disguise self? hes done similar disguise self type spells before, but yeah the mind attack he does in advent children is similarish to psyonic blast from ua. he def has enough spells to warrant some type of gish whether its part sorc, wizard or ek since i dont think warlock or pala has enough juice on that end.

[layinlow]

In the case of getting spells that match the materia he used and for his most iconic one, similar to Meteor Swarm, you'd need to be a Sorcerer or Wizard to cast it. I'd argue that if he wasn't an EK he'd definitely be a Divine Soul or Shadow Sorcerer 17/Hexblade Pact of the Blade Warlock 3 with his pact weapon as a longsword/glaive reflavored as an .

Agreed, i think it's either ek, or some gish multi with wiz or sorc. Do you think pact of blade is enough of a martial on that end to make sense? or do you think a 2 fighter or paladin (since hes pretty devoted to jenova/ the promised land) or something would be better on that end? either way tho yeah it miiiight be better then ek because it gets more of the spells then ek can. sword bard has crossed my mind as well but seph isn't much of a singer haha it does give a good amount of melee and some of the spells we'd need but idk

[SociopathFriend]

Wouldnt Shapeshift in that case just be disguise self? hes done similar disguise self type spells before, but yeah the mind attack he does in advent children is similarish to psyonic blast from ua. he def has enough spells to warrant some type of gish whether its part sorc, wizard or ek since i dont think warlock or pala has enough juice on that end.

At level 20 he'd have 4 Cantrips, 15 Spells known, and 8 Invocations. That's actually a fair bit of magic especially given the Invocations can sometimes be used as much as you want.

Remember in the original FF7 he actually didn't have all that much going for strength and speed- those largely came later. X out the Midgar Zolom and just about everything he ever did in that game could be done by a caster.

However a note- one of the Invocations you can take is Eldritch Smite. This allows you to knock even a Huge opponent prone with no Save.
That sounds like all the raw strength you could ever want. Even the strongest raging Barbarian can't just make something that big fall down with no issue.

Disguise Self vs Shapeshift varies in mileage for what you want from your Sephiroth. It's actually something I'm curious about whether the Remake will elaborate on or not for scenes such as him popping out of people and the like.

I will say Bladesinger definitely has some strong merits too- isn't there a Wizard spell that lets you teleport and strike a bunch of people? That'd be a pretty good Octoslash substitute.

[Expired]

Agreed, i think it's either ek, or some gish multi with wiz or sorc. Do you think pact of blade is enough of a martial on that end to make sense? or do you think a 2 fighter or paladin (since hes pretty devoted to jenova/ the promised land) or something would be better on that end? either way tho yeah it miiiight be better then ek because it gets more of the spells then ek can. sword bard has crossed my mind as well but seph isn't much of a singer haha it does give a good amount of melee and some of the spells we'd need but idk
I do think it makes sense. If you are a Hexblade Warlock and take Pact of the Blade, you can use Cha for your attack stat by bonding to a weapon (longsword at level 1 Warlock, and greatsword at level 3) all while wearing medium armor with a minimum of 14 Dex for a decent AC. College of Swords Bard could definitely work but remove the requirement of playing a musical instrument and replace it with something else. And you can choose to be an EK Fighter instead if none of the above appeals to you, so you have options.

[layinlow]

I do think it makes sense. If you are a Hexblade Warlock and take Pact of the Blade, you can use Cha for your attack stat by bonding to a weapon (longsword at level 1 Warlock, and greatsword at level 3) all while wearing medium armor with a minimum of 14 Dex for a decent AC. College of Swords Bard could definitely work but remove the requirement of playing a musical instrument and replace it with something else. And you can choose to be an EK Fighter instead if none of the above appeals to you, so you have options.
After looking further I dismissed warlock too early the first spells list I saw had less then what I actually found later in dnd beyond. I'd have to like find out what is really 100% the list but based on what I saw they have nearly everything I'd want, so they're also high up there for sure now. Definitely several avenues to take based on that. Thanks! I have always heard about blade being op for the 1 lvl dip but is warlock particularly strong when you go deep? (From optimization perspective)

[layinlow]

At level 20 he'd have 4 Cantrips, 15 Spells known, and 8 Invocations. That's actually a fair bit of magic especially given the Invocations can sometimes be used as much as you want.

Remember in the original FF7 he actually didn't have all that much going for strength and speed- those largely came later. X out the Midgar Zolom and just about everything he ever did in that game could be done by a caster.

However a note- one of the Invocations you can take is Eldritch Smite. This allows you to knock even a Huge opponent prone with no Save.
That sounds like all the raw strength you could ever want. Even the strongest raging Barbarian can't just make something that big fall down with no issue.

Disguise Self vs Shapeshift varies in mileage for what you want from your Sephiroth. It's actually something I'm curious about whether the Remake will elaborate on or not for scenes such as him popping out of people and the like.

I will say Bladesinger definitely has some strong merits too- isn't there a Wizard spell that lets you teleport and strike a bunch of people? That'd be a pretty good Octoslash substitute.
I havent finished watching a remake playthrough yet so I hope to see more on that angle, and yeah it's some steel strike thing that is for multiple people but can be fluffed nicely lol I did make a mistake dismissing warlock early tho based on re looking at their spell list ^^ they could definitely be a good option, honestly more directions then I originally thought lol.

[Expired]

After looking further I dismissed warlock too early the first spells list I saw had less then what I actually found later in dnd beyond. I'd have to like find out what is really 100% the list but based on what I saw they have nearly everything I'd want, so they're also high up there for sure now. Definitely several avenues to take based on that. Thanks! I have always heard about blade being op for the 1 lvl dip but is warlock particularly strong when you go deep? (From optimization perspective)
A Warlock's strength is completely dependent on how many short rests you are allowed in an adventuring day. For example, if you do not take any SRs, then you are at a severe disadvantage compared to LR spellcasters. In my opinion, Warlocks are front-loaded and best in multiclass builds, which might also be why 1-3 level dips are so prevalent in Cha based builds.

[layinlow]

A Warlock's strength is completely dependent on how many short rests you are allowed in an adventuring day. For example, if you do not take any SRs, then you are at a severe disadvantage compared to LR spellcasters. In my opinion, Warlocks are front-loaded and best in multiclass builds, which might also be why 1-3 level dips are so prevalent in Cha based builds.
Makes sense, and yeah they love the 1-3 dips for how front loaded it is. You become sad with just 1 lvl if you are charisma based super strong, 2 levels in and you have one of the best options at range being eldritch blast. Regardless tho definitely more options then I though. So far based on this thread I'd go deep into one of the casters like Bard sorc wiz or warlock and multi into pal 2 or fighter 2 or warlock 1-3 depending on the caster I pick I think ^^

[Sception]

Using purely PC rules? Vuman soldier oath breaker paladin multiclassed goolock. Glaive to represent his long katana.

As an npc using a mix of pc and homebrew rules?

Spoilers for a 20 year old game, i guesd.

Vuman with a custom part-abberation template, soldier background, oath of the crown paladin (ooc paladins in general being the best translation for the magic + martial soldier elite loyal to a company/city state rather than a god or any personal morals). Yes, use a count as glaive with PAM for his long katana. His stats shouldnt be point buy, but instead "rolled", and stupid high accross the board. Look at strahd's stat line for inspiration.

After his mind breaks and he hooks up with jenova - somewhere between levels 8 and 12, multiclass out into goolock with pact of the blade, and drop oath of the crown for a homebrew variant of oath breaker with an aura that buffs aberrations in addition to undead and fiends. He spends the following year or so meditating and leveling up as warlock to whatever level he needs to be an overwhelming threat before reappearing.

At this point he's stuck in the lifestream, but give him the ability to manifest a single clone of himself at a time with all his abilities & equipment either through jenova's corpse (in which case he also has all of jenova's abilities - as a great old one herself these should at least be equivalent to a near max level GOOlock, in addition to three epic saves and three legendary actions per rest) or the body of someone infected with enough of her cells, not just a normal soldier, one might have to ingest a portion of jenova's body to be sufficiently infected first (charisma save DC 10 to resist possession, Sephiroth can't try again on the same host for 1 year, but can keep trying on other hosts until he succeeds, generally those sufgiciently infected are already so far gone they voluntarily fail). Within the crater where his actual body lodged, he'll also have a number of lair actions as appropriate.

Killing these clones doesn't kill him, he'll eventually spawn another elsewhere, so actually killing him at this point means finding and destroying his original body, and if you want to stop him from influencing the world even after his death you'll also need to pull off the nigh impossible task of exterminating every cell of jenova.

He can also see through the senses of those infected with any amount of Jenova cells from anywhere in the world, DC 15 charisma save to resist for one day. If the target passes the save they suffer a migrain and memories of Sephiroth flash through their mind. If they fail the save, they are unaware of the effect entirely. While sensing through an infected host in this manner, sephiroth can cast any enchantment or illusion spells he knows on the host, ignoring range. He can also cast illusion spells to create illusions in the hosts vicinity, drawing range and line of sight from the host, but only those infected by jenova cells can perceive them.

Sephiroth can perceive and cast spells through any number of hosts at once, and can cast the same enchantment or illusion spell on any number of hosts simultaneously with a single casting of the spell.

If jenova or a host is sealed in a container with shielding equivalent to an inch of lead then he cannot possess that host body as a sephiroth clone, nor can he perceive or cast spells through that host. Jenova's corpse will be in such a prison when Sephiroth becomes active again, and his first goal will be finding and freeing her body so that he can possess it. He is reluctant to reveal himself before Jenova's corpse is found, as if those who currently possess it learn that he is alive, they will move it to a much more difficult to access location, or possibly destroy it altogether.

Once he retrieves Jenova's corpse and possesses it as a more powerful clone, he turns his attention to his other goals of locating & exterminating any remaining ancients, and locating, retrieving, and activating the black materia.

[layinlow]

Using purely PC rules? Vuman soldier oath breaker paladin multiclassed goolock. Glaive to represent his long katana.

As an npc using a mix of pc and homebrew rules?

Spoilers for a 20 year old game, i guesd.

Vuman with a custom part-abberation template, soldier background, oath of the crown paladin (ooc paladins in general being the best translation for the magic + martial soldier elite loyal to a company/city state rather than a god or any personal morals). Yes, use a count as glaive with PAM for his long katana. His stats shouldnt be point buy, but instead "rolled", and stupid high accross the board. Look at strahd's stat line for inspiration.

After his mind breaks and he hooks up with jenova - somewhere between levels 8 and 12, multiclass out into goolock with pact of the blade, and drop oath of the crown for a homebrew variant of oath breaker with an aura that buffs aberrations in addition to undead and fiends. He spends the following year or so meditating and leveling up as warlock to whatever level he needs to be an overwhelming threat before reappearing.

At this point he's stuck in the lifestream, but give him the ability to manifest a single clone of himself at a time with all his abilities & equipment either through jenova's corpse (in which case he also has all of jenova's abilities - as a great old one herself these should at least be equivalent to a near max level GOOlock, in addition to three epic saves and three legendary actions per rest) or the body of someone infected with enough of her cells, not just a normal soldier, one might have to ingest a portion of jenova's body to be sufficiently infected first (charisma save DC 10 to resist possession, Sephiroth can't try again on the same host for 1 year, but can keep trying on other hosts until he succeeds, generally those sufgiciently infected are already so far gone they voluntarily fail). Within the crater where his actual body lodged, he'll also have a number of lair actions as appropriate.

Killing these clones doesn't kill him, he'll eventually spawn another elsewhere, so actually killing him at this point means finding and destroying his original body, and if you want to stop him from influencing the world even after his death you'll also need to pull off the nigh impossible task of exterminating every cell of jenova.

He can also see through the senses of those infected with any amount of Jenova cells from anywhere in the world, DC 15 charisma save to resist for one day. If the target passes the save they suffer a migrain and memories of Sephiroth flash through their mind. If they fail the save, they are unaware of the effect entirely. While sensing through an infected host in this manner, sephiroth can cast any enchantment or illusion spells he knows on the host, ignoring range. He can also cast illusion spells to create illusions in the hosts vicinity, drawing range and line of sight from the host, but only those infected by jenova cells can perceive them.

Sephiroth can perceive and cast spells through any number of hosts at once, and can cast the same enchantment or illusion spell on any number of hosts simultaneously with a single casting of the spell.

If jenova or a host is sealed in a container with shielding equivalent to an inch of lead then he cannot possess that host body as a sephiroth clone, nor can he perceive or cast spells through that host. Jenova's corpse will be in such a prison when Sephiroth becomes active again, and his first goal will be finding and freeing her body so that he can possess it. He is reluctant to reveal himself before Jenova's corpse is found, as if those who currently possess it learn that he is alive, they will move it to a much more difficult to access location, or possibly destroy it altogether.

Once he retrieves Jenova's corpse and possesses it as a more powerful clone, he turns his attention to his other goals of locating & exterminating any remaining ancients, and locating, retrieving, and activating the black materia.
Thats a super comprehensive message in regards to the npc side haha I appreciate it! i'd probably use that as a resource also towards a pc with obviously not including the things that are clearly too strong for pc's haha the only thing it is 100% correct to go GOO instead of hexblade with oathbreaker but sounds funny since the other is so overdone lol. honestly warlock does have most of the stuff i want outside of a couple so its probably one of my best options without needing to go all the way down wizard and feel mad as hell. plus i could try to swing something with the dm if i'm trying to play it in a home game. Starting the thread has definitely helped with the ideas for it