Any Fencers here?

[Edanor]

I'm proficient in epée, but I keep practicing. Anybody else around?

[Flabbicus]

Sabre fencer here, but only for a year and only until I was buried under a lot of schoolwork.

[ThunderEagle]

I fenced until recently, but stopped because I wasn't learning anything. I prefer epee, in fact that was all I was good at, and I wasn't any good at that really.

[Icewalker]

I was considering making this thread yesterday.


I've only just started fencing, so I've only done it for a few months. Foil only.

It's pretty great. I've learned some fun stuff.

[Falconer]

Dang, I've always wanted to learn how to fence, but I've never had the chance...

[BlackStaticWolf]

I've practiced epee and sabre off and on for about 12 years. It's fun.

[Eldpollard]

I fence. Sabre and epee. I haven't been in a while though, I need to start again.

[Edanor]

I'm mildly capable with saber, but I'm really only good at epée. I have been fencing epée for about a year and a half now, but saber I only have 30 hours of saber experience.

[Timberwolf]

I did it for a bit, then destroyed my knee at it and had to stop. I was about as subtle as Blackbeard unfortunately, I maintain the club were scared to give me a sbre. Before any says things about slashing, 17 years of playing Badminton to a decent level meant that I had a very strong right wrist which meant a beat attack of renown. *Sigh* Happy days.

[Edanor]

I've single handedly fixed the way those that I fence hold their blades. That wrist just seems to drag my point home :smallsmile:

[Death, your friend the Reaper]

I can fence around 5 square hectares of land a day.

I'm a member of the Australian Fencing Association for Recreation.

[ForzaFiori]

I dont fence, but i've always wanted to learn.

it would be a fun addition to the other martial arts I know.

[de-trick]

i wish i could learn to fence but sigh i live in to small of town to get a teacher

[Lord Iames Osari]

Bah! Fencing is for sissies! I practice real swordplay.







Well, okay, it's LARP swordplay, but it's still closer to RL swordfighting than fencing back and forth on a stupid line...

[Flabbicus]

Bah! Fencing is for sissies! I practice real swordplay.







Well, okay, it's LARP swordplay, but it's still closer to RL swordfighting than fencing back and forth on a stupid line...

Well, you'll never make it as a real swashbuckler then. You'll be doomed to a life of mediocrity with no chandelier swinging and candelabra fighting.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Swashing bucklers is overrated. :smallbiggrin:

[cucchulainnn]

i did some fencing in high school during the 1980's now i am learning single stick and Liechtenauer. i spend most of my time doing german long sword. the fencing club that i go to trains for a few hours on Saturdays and then we go to a pub to drink and mock each other.

these videos are where not made by the club i where i train we are working on some. it's nice to know that fighters swing widely at each other with hale ton bars of steel shaped like swords. :smallwink:

these are drills showing some of the basics of the system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC5FIyfI8TA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3DhjFUOG6Y

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtenauer

i also so used to fight in the SCA and some LARPing. That was in the 1990's.

[blackfox]

I can fence around 5 square hectares of land a day.

I'm a member of the Australian Fencing Association for Recreation.You would. :smallbiggrin:

[cucchulainnn]

Bah! Fencing is for sissies! I practice real swordplay.[/size]

modern fencing swords are the practice weapons for what where called small swords. i personally feel that small swords are (how should i say this?) effeminate. they and sabres were the last of true dueling swords and amazingly deadly. far deadlier then i'm comfortable admitting. small swords were like machine guns of swords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallsword

[SurlySeraph]

My sister fences foil. I tried fencing when I was 8, and never got the hang of it. I just couldn't develop the right reflexes.

Wrestling, on the other hand... :smallamused:

[Neftren]

I'm pretty good with the Foil and Rapier. Rapier is a lot cooler, although I find the Foil a lot lighter...

[Lemur]

I fenced for about 8 years, but I haven't done it for several years now, so I'm obviously terribly out of practice. Foil and mostly epee.

I've also done larp stuff (more recently, I totally got my ass kicked at Ragnarok this summer). As far as I'm concerned, both fields are sufficiently removed from the realms of real combat to quell any debates as to which one is closer to the real thing.

[Lord Iames Osari]

modern fencing swords are the practice weapons for what where called small swords. i personally feel that small swords are (how should i say this?) effeminate. they and sabres were the last of true dueling swords and amazingly deadly. far deadlier then i'm comfortable admitting. small swords were like machine guns of swords.

Like machine guns of swords? Uh, last time I checked, machine guns were pretty damn effective.


I fenced for about 8 years, but I haven't done it for several years now, so I'm obviously terribly out of practice. Foil and mostly epee.

I've also done larp stuff (more recently, I totally got my ass kicked at Ragnarok this summer). As far as I'm concerned, both fields are sufficiently removed from the realms of real combat to quell any debates as to which one is closer to the real thing.

Depends on the LARP, I think. I'm not talking about RPS WoD LARPs, here, just for reference.

[Evil_Pacifist]

Like machine guns of swords? Uh, last time I checked, machine guns were pretty damn effective.

He means that small swords are to broadswords or whatever what machine guns are to, say, flintlock muskets.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Ah. Rereading it, I can see what he means. It was the "effeminate" comment that threw me off.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

Well, i've fenced foil for about 7 years now, since i was 11. I just started fencing for my college's fencing team as well.

[Renegade Paladin]

He means that small swords are to broadswords or whatever what machine guns are to, say, flintlock muskets.
Then he's wrong. There's no one blade that's definitively better than all others in all situations. It all depends greatly on the physical characteristics of the wielder, what (if any) armor is being faced, what (if any) armor is being worn, whether a shield is employed, what sort of terrain one is on, whether being on horseback is involved, and any number of other factors. Medieval Europe would have scores of totally contemporary sword designs in use at any one time, each one specialized for a purpose. There was no general-use sword at any point in history.

[cucchulainnn]

what i mean is that they are very light which make them very fast. also it takes a lot less strength to stab into flesh then cut it. because the human body is fairly fragile a three foot needle inserted into your chest or face will kill some one just as easily as a deep cut wound.

not sure why but i find fighting with padded nerf swords to be unsatisfying.
maybe it is just a case of too many rules. i like fighting rule to be simple so that they don't get in the way of a good duel. you get hit in the head or chest you lose, the arms or legs you lose the use of that limb until the fight is over. nice simple and fast paced.

what group do you play with? i used to play with NERO, Dragon Claw and Quest and few other that i can remember the names of off hand. have you ever done heavy weapons like the SCA? if you do you should check out Pennsic War 10,000 fighters on the field fight battles all at once. when i fight in a shield wall i work with a pole arm man. i work as a shield barer and block or tangle the weapons of those on the other side wile the spear man dose the killing. considering that we fight with rattan weapons it is amazing how rare broken bones are.

[Edanor]

I'd just like to say to those of you who find fencing Wimpy, that I would LOVE to treat you to a lesson.

[Siberys]

I wish there were fencing classes roundabouts where I live. I'd be signed up in a heartbeat. :smallfrown:

[Brickwall]

I do fence. With longswords. I'm a beginner, but I do.

And as for the thrusting sword/cutting sword debate, it's not at all true to say that it requires less strength to stab than to cut, not with proper cutting technique. As you said, the human body is pretty fragile Both are equally effective ways of fighting, and anyone who says otherwise is not equally trained in both, unless they're totally untrained in both.

I don't say so of my own voice, but of the many people who I've asked about weapon superiority. And the results are: no sword is "better" than any other by design.

[Edanor]

Longsword fencing? I do hope you don't use the real things, or else the fatality rates must be through the roof! And as for cutting/thrusting, It's really quite simple. Weapons made for slashing were primarily for inflicting massive amounts of damage in medieval times, an intimidation tactic if you would. There is no inherent advantage between the two, you simply use the slashing weapon to tell your opponent to "Back down or I lop an arm off"

[cucchulainnn]

Then he's wrong. There's no one blade that's definitively better than all others in all situations. It all depends greatly on the physical characteristics of the wielder, what (if any) armor is being faced, what (if any) armor is being worn, whether a shield is employed, what sort of terrain one is on, whether being on horseback is involved, and any number of other factors. Medieval Europe would have scores of totally contemporary sword designs in use at any one time, each one specialized for a purpose. There was no general-use sword at any point in history.

what is the word i am looking for ohh yea, DUH. never claimed that small swords are universally the best sword only a very fast DUELING SWORD.

what systems do you study, Agrippa, Di Grassi, Manciolini, Fillipo Vad, Fiore, Liechtenauer, Silver, Hutton, MacBain, Hope, I.33?

tell me about Ockshott typology. who was william marshall?
what is wootz steel, and what is pattern welding? dose broadswords have basket hilts or crosses? how many layers in a gambeson? how many layers are called for by law as decreed by Edward the black prince during the hundred years war? what where the the gambesons made of? when did plate armor go from iron to spring steel? is historical riveted mail correct with wedge shaped rivets or round? from when to when?

i am not attacking you just trying to understand your knowledge base.

[Mephisto]

I fence epee with my college's club. I've been doing it for a bit more than a month, and while my form probably looks terrible I can make a match against my instructors a close one.

It probably helps that I'm tall and have freakishly long reach.

[Edanor]

You must learn fast, or have really bad instructors. Either that or mine are crazy good. Mix and match.

What clubs do you people go to? I'm in Charlotte Fencing Academy, I'm under Toomey.

Where are uou sparky?

[cucchulainnn]

I do fence. With longswords. I'm a beginner, but I do.

And as for the thrusting sword/cutting sword debate, it's not at all true to say that it requires less strength to stab than to cut, not with proper cutting technique. As you said, the human body is pretty fragile Both are equally effective ways of fighting, and anyone who says otherwise is not equally trained in both, unless they're totally untrained in both.

I don't say so of my own voice, but of the many people who I've asked about weapon superiority. And the results are: no sword is "better" than any other by design.

partially right. what i meant is a killing blow. lets talk about the chest,the lungs are with in one inch of the surface in front but several inches from the top and protected by the ribs. meat gives very little resistance to both cut and trusts. trusts coming from the front or behind will either hit a rib or miss the ribs and puncher a lung. cuts on the other hand come for the side, above or under. a cut will always encounter bones. for instance a cut from above before getting to the lungs will have to cut the collar bone, several ribs and several inches of meat. that is why i said that it take less strength to kill with a small sword then most other swords. small swords are refined rapiers.

i personally don;t like small swords but will give credit where credit is due.

what system are you studying? we use steel blunts for the advance students and wooden wasters for new people.

this is my blunt. they are more flexable then the real thing and have much wider edges

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/cucchulainnn/P1010055.jpg

[cucchulainnn]

You must learn fast, or have really bad instructors. Either that or mine are crazy good. Mix and match.

What clubs do you people go to? I'm in Charlotte Fencing Academy, I'm under Toomey.

Where are uou sparky?


i've heard good things about the charlotte fencing academy. how long have you fenced?

[Brickwall]

Longsword fencing? I do hope you don't use the real things, or else the fatality rates must be through the roof!

Define "real thing". We use swords made to weigh and handle as a sword should, though they are blunted. However, they're expensive, so those of us without the money borrow wooden and plastic replicas that weigh and handle as close as possible.

As for the system, I'm not sure it has a name. I learn under a society that uses medieval/renaissance manuals, mostly German, for reference. I'm also looking into quarterstaffs, but we don't have any reference material, so I'll have to save up for that on my own.

Just as a recommendation, you probably don't want your replica to be too flexible. Bruises are our teachers, and a flexible sword won't handle quite right. Better than a wooden one, though, I suppose.

[cucchulainnn]

the flexibility is so that we can thrust safely. my blunt was custom made by arms and amour. for test cutting i use an albion agincourt or an atrim 1445.

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-agincourt-xv.htm

http://www.armor.com/training.html

from what you said we study the same system. what school are you with? it is nice meeting other people in WMA. a brother in arms so to say.
the group i am with holds an annual fencing seminar. next year if you could get a few people from your school to come it would be cool. you and your school have an open invitation.

http://www.newyorklongsword.com/chts2007.html

i just picked up david lindholms quarterstaff book it looks good, but i haven't tried it yet.

[Brickwall]

ARMA (http://www.thehaca.com/) isn't so much a school as a society. I'm sure there are members in whatever area you are in, and they're probably in the right networks to have heard about it already.

Do tell me how that book turns out for you, though. I'm very interested in becoming a 9-foot circle of death. :smallbiggrin:

[cucchulainnn]

i familiar with arma. that is john celmins organization? so far i like every one in i have met in arma. mostly i study toblers interpretation. last summer new york historical fencing association was accepted as chapter of Christian Tobler's Selohaar Fechtschule.

for some reason the guys i fence with don't want to do anything that doesn't involve swords. it's a real pain in the but.

even so you have an open invitation to any of our events with as many guests as you like. we are located in new york city, up state new york, kansas and Connecticut.

[Brickwall]

So...we do pretty similar stuff. Awesome.

How long have you been at it? I'm pretty new to the whole thing.

[cucchulainnn]

about a year and half. i'm not sure but i think the main difference between schools is the way we hold guards and the way each school parries. either way the differences in my opinion are minor. :smallbiggrin:

[Mephisto]

You must learn fast, or have really bad instructors.

The instructors are other students. It's a club, we're not competitive or anything and we don't have coaches. It's also just starting up this semester, so we don't exactly have funding from the college for equipment yet. :smallmad:

[The Prince of Cats]

I'd just like to say to those of you who find fencing Wimpy, that I would LOVE to treat you to a lesson.
I do love the 'fencing is for wimps' crowd. I was trained (and have trained others) scholar's privilege for theatre, so I know how much it can hurt to get hit by a good lunge.

I have to say that teaching a fencer is frustrating at times, since they are taught so many rules; while they assimilate "not the face or the 'nads" quite fast, they do not always think about the other possibilities. Apparently fencers don't attack each other's hands much or use 'props' to trap blades.

I have often mused that society might improve if the duello was reintroduced. After all, swords have more finesse than guns...

[Altharis]

I just came back from a fencing lesson right now! And if anyone says that fencing is for wimps, they have never been jabbed in the ribs with a foil... Not that I would't be willing to help them with that...:smallwink:

I've been fencing since the start of this year, and I love it!

The fact that I speak French also helps. And that my fencing teacher is french :smallwink:

Good to know that I'm not alone.
Altharis

[Swooper]

I've fenced sabre with the Reykjavik Fencing Club for... twelve years now. I'm on a break now though, since I'm studying in London and haven't found a club yet.

[Malik]

i wish i had a fencing club in my area so i could learn, but sadly i do not.


dose broadswords have basket hilts or crosses? how many layers in a gambeson?

Broadswords can come in both varieties, i actually own a scottish basket hilt broadsword, they were favoured by the highlanders. Eventually i wish to own a good solid scottish dirk to go along with it, as well as a shain dubh and a lochaber axe.

[Ishmael]

Ugh. Fencing. For years, I've fenced competitively at the Male Youth Sabre level. I got really into it, and still think it's really fun. But it just consumes so much time up! And I have college applications to think of, my Eagle scout to work on, schoolwork to handle, etc.

I don't have the time to dedicate to fencing, which is really frustrating, because it is a lot of fun. My team, too, is really hardcore--my friend ended up going to the Junior Olympics, National Championships, etc. I could be like that, if I went to practice every day and drove fifty miles to get there.

I had to question what was more important, fencing or everything else. Everything else won. I still go to practice, but very rarely.

[Brickwall]

Re: 'Fencing is for wimps'

Fencing is not for wimps. Despite the fact that they use pads and have swords that only don't break because they bend, even foil fencers must learn to deal with bruises now and then. And that's sport fencing. Fencing with larger weapons, whether for purposes of entertaining others or entertaining oneself (let's face it: it's not a practical self-defense style, not until they legalize carrying swords), is going to produce many bruises, and will require some more muscle power (though not that much).

I hope what I said didn't offend you sport fencers out there. I love sport fencing. It looks really fun. But a foil is just not as heavy or painful as a longsword. And that's probably a good thing.

[Edanor]

My apologies cucchulainnn, I would have answered sooner, but my duties require me to wake at 4 in the morning, and get home at 2 (on a good day)

I've been fencing at CFA for 15 months now.

And Brickwall, keep in mind that an epée is the heaviest of the three weapons, and when you hold it properly for long periods, it can be very tiring. I will not dispute the bruises part though. That thing looks painful to get hit by, even through padding.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

I took an intro fencing course (foil) my last quarter at college, which was about a year and a half ago. I'd really like to pick it back up again, but don't really have the money to get my own equipment at the moment.

[Brickwall]

And Brickwall, keep in mind that an epée is the heaviest of the three weapons, and when you hold it properly for long periods, it can be very tiring. I will not dispute the bruises part though. That thing looks painful to get hit by, even through padding.

Using a longsword for two minutes, and this is with both hands, is tiring even for experienced fighters. While I'm sure the epée is no feather, the comparison is still pretty severe.

[Barrin]

Yep - foil fencer here. Tried epee 'cause it looked cool, but I sucked at it...Saber I've done once. I was good at that - I was the only one in the class to realize that poking was still a valid attack method :3

[Brickwall]

Yep - foil fencer here. Tried epee 'cause it looked cool, but I sucked at it...Saber I've done once. I was good at that - I was the only one in the class to realize that poking was still a valid attack method :3

...that's the ONLY valid attack method with thinblades. Please, please don't tell me everyone else slashed. Because if you do, I'll be forced to hunt your class down and kill them.

[Iudex Fatarum]

Most sabre fencers I have known slash mostly. My club did only foil and a little Epee. I did foil for quite a few years, about 4 or so but college took precidence, I had three instructors. My first instructor wasn't very good but the second two were brothers and both were on the USSR national team. It was interesting to say the least. They were crazy and held the traditional philosophy of if it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger. I loved it though.
the worst injury was a kid who had a blade go through both is pants and boxers, thankfuly didn't hurt anything buts still crazy. I've goten some nasty cuts from it too, nothing deep but still a 6 inch cut hurts.

[Lord_Drayakir]

Foil fencer for 6 years, broadsword... swordplay (I can't call it fencing) for 2. = )

It's an awesome sport. Not only is it good for you, it increase coordination and balance, and more importantly, when people ask you what sport do you play, you just give the casual shrug of the shoulders and say "Fencing," with an attitude of superiority.

[Edanor]

Sabers are supposed to be used for slashing. It's derived from the cavalry saber (duh) so why would you be jabbing unless you were a epée/foil fencer?

[Nightwing]

I have been fencing for 2 months.

[Brickwall]

Sabers are supposed to be used for slashing. It's derived from the cavalry saber (duh) so why would you be jabbing unless you were a epée/foil fencer?

Because they're pointy. Still, a saber isn't a foil if it's for slashing. I was under the impression it was just another kind of foil, not the cavalry sabre. Whatever.

Anyway, Drayakir, any kind of swordplay is fencing. Fencing means swordplay. It's just in these years, some people think it only means foil fencing. Prove them wrong. Show them the deadly grace that is the long blade. :smallamused:

[[Insert Neat Username Here]]

I used to fence epee, but after I moved last year, I've been unable to, partly because by the time the chaos of a new house ended, my gear was all too small and I haven't replaced it yet, and partly because I haven't had much time. I really need to start again.

Someone in my class fences and is really good; I believe she won a nation wide tournament last year.

[cucchulainnn]

hi guys i think people are missing something. modern fencing was invented as the training method to safely learn sword fighting. the reason fencing swords are flexible is so the students don't hurt each other wile they learn. any one who dose sabre fencing is practicing to use a real sabre like the ones below. that is why there is so much cutting.

http://www.naval-review.org/images/swords.gif

epee and foil are the practice swords for rapier what where called small swords like the ones below

http://www.thearma.org/Youth/RapierQandA/smr.jpg

i hope this helps

[Brickwall]

hi guys i think people are missing something. modern fencing was invented as the training method to safely learn sword fighting. the reason fencing swords are flexible is so the students don't hurt each other wile they learn. any one who dose sabre fencing is practicing to use a real sabre like the ones below. that is why there is so much cutting.
epee and foil are the practice swords for rapier what where called small swords like the ones below
i hope this helps

Foils allow safe training for rapier fighting. Modern fencing involves extremely heavy rules that would just not apply in a fight. Lack of off-hand use, lack of grappling, even terrain, even armament, etc. All those things turned it from training into a sport that does not train realistic combat. An honorable sport it is, but nothing more.

[cucchulainnn]

true, but the basic skills are still used, it would only take a few hours for a modern fencer to get up to speed if he where time traveled back to say the 1650-1890. the main problem with modern fencing is that people play the rules. for instance right of way and the point system. right of way is a rule included to simulate a real fight. in a duel the defender would have to deal with the threat before counter attacking or he would get stabbed. the three touches is a problem because once one of two people gains enough of a lead then double kills become a valid tactic where in real life that would get you killed. so yes the rules encourage people to do things they would not do in a real duel but the skills are the same for either. you use the same lunges, parries, cuts, attacks, counter attacks, feigns and so on.

modern epee and foil simulate formal ritualized dueling of the 18th and 19th century.

[Brickwall]

true, but the basic skills are still used, it would only take a few hours for a modern fencer to get up to speed if he where time traveled back to say the 1650-1890. the main problem with modern fencing is that people play the rules. for instance right of way and the point system. right of way is a rule included to simulate a real fight. in a duel the defender would have to deal with the threat before counter attacking or he would get stabbed. the three touches is a problem because once one of two people gains enough of a lead then double kills become a valid tactic where in real life that would get you killed. so yes the rules encourage people to do things they would not do in a real duel but the skills are the same for either. you use the same lunges, parries, cuts, attacks, counter attacks, feigns and so on.

It seems to encourage more parrying than would be effective in a real combat, but I think a week or two of re-training could bring a sport fencer up to speed if he were very good, yes.

[Goblin Music]

:smallfrown: alas i live in the middle of nowhere, but i would love to learn to Fence

[cucchulainnn]

brick wall i am enjoying this conversation. :smallbiggrin: i hope you are too.

[Brickwall]

brick wall i am enjoying this conversation. :smallbiggrin: i hope you are too.

Of course I am. If I weren't, you would know.

[Lord Iames Osari]

In response to those who criticized the "fencing is for wimps" position, which I espoused in an earlier post:

I was indeed referring to modern sport fencing and its unsuitability for actual combat. While I have never studied fencing as such, I like to think that my LARPing experience is at least somewhat close. :smallredface:

cucchulainnn: Until recently, I PCed a game called Roanoke and NPCed for Radiant Dragon, both of which use the NTeraction rules. Then I moved. :smallfrown:

[cucchulainnn]

brickwall i agree with you, all though i believe (and may be wrong) that the difference between modern fencing and historic dueling is more the mind set then skill set. modern fencers are willing to try things that could open them selfs open to a hit more comfortably then the dueler because he doesn't have to worry about getting stabbed.

[Brickwall]

I was indeed referring to modern sport fencing and its unsuitability for actual combat. While I have never studied fencing as such, I like to think that my LARPing experience is at least somewhat close. :smallredface:

It's not. It's actually probably worse than sport fencing. It has almost as many rules, and defense isn't as important. Your weapons are also clumsier and teach you incorrect movement.

[cucchulainnn]

In response to those who criticized the "fencing is for wimps" position, which I espoused in an earlier post:

I was indeed referring to modern sport fencing and its unsuitability for actual combat. While I have never studied fencing as such, I like to think that my LARPing experience is at least somewhat close. :smallredface:

cucchulainnn: Until recently, I PCed a game called Roanoke and NPCed for Radiant Dragon, both of which use the NTeraction rules. Then I moved. :smallfrown:

bummer.
i tried to look up NTeraction but could not find anything.

[Lemur]

It's not. It's actually probably worse than sport fencing. It has almost as many rules, and defense isn't as important. Your weapons are also clumsier and teach you incorrect movement.

Having experienced both, I'll also testify to this. My experience has been with Dagorhir, which is probably as vicious as a boffer game will get, is still a far cry from actual combat training. The best thing a larp will teach you is teamwork.

Of course, any combat based sport will have the issue of people playing the system. The bottom line is, if you want to learn how to fight, take up a martial art. If you want to have fun hitting people without going to prison, sport combat is for you.

[Iudex Fatarum]

On martial arts, including fencing. there are few that can accurately portray real life combat. After all, if I were to attack someone I would try and take them out as fast as I can, meaning break knees and elbows and neck, in real life these break easy so hitting them is bad idea to do hence rules against it. there are few martial arts that allow you to kill an opponent in training.

[The Prince of Cats]

it would only take a few hours for a modern fencer to get up to speed if he where time traveled back to say the 1650-1890. the main problem with modern fencing is that people play the rules.
Your second point there is my problem with the first. Teaching a fencer the extras required for a duel would be easy, untraining the 'rules' would take days. To a fencer, a point is a point, which ignores the fact that a good draw cut across the back of your hand can be (and any decent cut to the inner thigh is) more debilitating than sticking your sword through the meat of the shoulder or biceps.


After all, if I were to attack someone I would try and take them out as fast as I can.
Yeah, that was what I was taught for certain martial arts. In fencing, patience is a virtue due to the range involved. A good parry often counts for more than a good strike. In a knife fight, I was taught to turn and run if it lasts more than about thirty seconds.
A knife fight gets very bloody very fast, with both combatants taking an unacceptable number of hits.

[Edanor]

Unlearning the rules would not take that long really. If I were to end up in a bad situation like I normally do (my circle 6 is sub par, I do a much better 2) I would simply follow through, pulling our blades off to the side and punching the fencer in wherever I could reach that would harm them greatly. Don't go for the nuts, go for the kneecap.

[The Prince of Cats]

Unlearning the rules would not take that long really. If I were to end up in a bad situation like I normally do I would simply follow through, pulling our blades off to the side and punching the fencer in wherever I could reach that would harm them greatly. Don't go for the nuts, go for the kneecap.
I take it most clubs don't teach Florentine then. Even a main-gauche can spoil a traditional fencer's day, unless they have some experience of it. You are still thinking as a fencer, not a swashbuckler.

[The Iron Muffin]

I fenced epee in college (UMass Amherst) from 1998 to 2000.

[Argent]

Not fencing (in the epee/foil/sabre sense) but swordplay with hand-and-a-half swords -- an Italian school of swordplay called the Fior di Battaglia. I don't know if any other schools share the same idea, but the idea behind this method is that a cut is more a transition between guard positions than a separate action in and of itself. F'rinstance, the cut may come from a sword moving from a high guard to a low guard. I only studied for a short time and quit due to time constraints, but it was a lot of fun. Plus, some of the guard positions had the neatest names (the Boar's Tooth, the Guard of the Woman), which sounded even cooler in Italian.

Good times.

[Dullyanna]

I've been fencing (Foil and sabre) for a couple years now. I've been waving sticks around haphazardly for a significantly longer amount of time. Style-wise, I'm a bit more meek and cautious than most.

[Brickwall]

Not fencing (in the epee/foil/sabre sense) but swordplay with hand-and-a-half swords -- an Italian school of swordplay called the Fior di Battaglia. I don't know if any other schools share the same idea, but the idea behind this method is that a cut is more a transition between guard positions than a separate action in and of itself. F'rinstance, the cut may come from a sword moving from a high guard to a low guard. I only studied for a short time and quit due to time constraints, but it was a lot of fun. Plus, some of the guard positions had the neatest names (the Boar's Tooth, the Guard of the Woman), which sounded even cooler in Italian.

Good times.

I never found a point in saying it before, but since you bring it up, I should let you know that the technique you describe is totally universal among western swordfighting styles. German and Italian, as well as whoever might be based off them. Also of note: one of my teachers loves the Italian names for the guards.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

Specifically, I fenced at the Rochester Fencing Club since i was about 11 and now i fence for William and Mary's club team. At the RFC is was almost entirly foil while W&M has a fairly even split.

[enderrocksonall]

I was lucky enough to find a fellow combat enthusiast in high school and we have been best friends ever since.

We took combat classes together every chance we got in college, which got us about 14 credits of Phys. Ed. that didn't apply to either one of our majors.:smallbiggrin:

We haven't had much time to practice since we graduated from college, but in the past we have sparred and studied the foil, epee(don't know how to make the little ' thingy), broadsword, rapier, rapier and dagger, quarterstaff, katana, knife fighting, judo, karate, aikido, and quite recently, he has been studying Brazilian jui-jitsu.

This is his first foray into a traditionally eastern martial art. Most of his experience is with European combat, whereas most of mine is purely eastern.

He has his certification to choreograph combat for stage and screen, and he often will call me to ask me about some of the more eastern combat forms that he wants to use for something.

[RandomNPC]

just a bit. we held our classes at the local high school, and after two months i was told i wasn't allowed because of my grades. Didn't find out untill after the spiffy olympic fencer stopped being our instructor that it was held at school but wasn't school scantioned, and i could've been fencing the entire school year. so i missed out so much fencing with the small group that i really felt silly by comparison and stopped going, but while i was there the olympic guy always used me for speed comparisons, so i guess i was fast enough.

[Crow]

Fast isn't fast, smooth is fast.

[Lord Iames Osari]

It's not. It's actually probably worse than sport fencing. It has almost as many rules, and defense isn't as important. Your weapons are also clumsier and teach you incorrect movement.

That may be so (although the rules thing really depends), but LARPing does do more to promote situational awareness than sport fencing. You have to be aware of what other people around you are doing, in addition to defending yourself against your opponent, which makes it more like real combat, in that you can't afford to focus entirely on a single opponent.

[Brickwall]

That may be so (although the rules thing really depends), but LARPing does do more to promote situational awareness than sport fencing. You have to be aware of what other people around you are doing, in addition to defending yourself against your opponent, which makes it more like real combat, in that you can't afford to focus entirely on a single opponent.

Except, pointing to the 'defense isn't as important' clause, it doesn't really help awareness of multiple opponents at all. You can afford not noticing a guy coming up from behind with a broadsword. You'll live. Nothing resembling actual combat has room for such error.

Besides that, the best technique I've seen used to handle multiple opponents is to position yourself so that you CAN focus on one at a time. And, if anything, fencing teaches more about defensive positioning and footwork than LARPing.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Can we at least both agree to this? "Both sport fencing and LARPing have ways in which they resemble and fail to resemble real old-time combat."

[Brickwall]

I would add that LARPing has less ways in which it resembles real old-time combat, but that technically doesn't conflict with what you said.

[Argent]

I never found a point in saying it before, but since you bring it up, I should let you know that the technique you describe is totally universal among western swordfighting styles. German and Italian, as well as whoever might be based off them. Also of note: one of my teachers loves the Italian names for the guards.

Really? Thanks for the knowledge! My experience is strictly with that one system, so didn't know that the transition-between-guards thing was more universal. Interesting.

And yeah, one of the neater parts of the class was having the instructor yell the names of the guards at you in Italian. "POSTA DA DENTE DE CHINGIARE!" (Apologies for the badly-mangled Italian spelling.)

[Brickwall]

As lovely as the Italian names are, I think the German names are better for drilling. They're 1-3 syllables, with nice, barkable German sounds. Same with the cuts (each of which usually describes a few similar transitions). If only I could remember which were which...

[Totally Guy]

My fencing sensei teaches to only do it in self defence. So the next time I'm getting mugged... "ENGUARD!"

Just kidding. I got all pumped up to learn it at christmas last year. I was starting in a new house with new people but the fencing beginner lessons clashed with my university course.

[Lorn]

I used to fence... I wasn't bad at it. That was in Year 6.

Now, I play with real mens swords.

Well, sort of, I do Saxon combat reenactment, in which I generally use a spear or scramseax (combat knife.) But I can use a sword. Not a manly manly man's sword, just a normal.. but meh. I can use a sword :p