PDA

View Full Version : I heard you like Smites...



Phhase
2020-04-13, 01:56 PM
So looking at the rules, it seems completely valid to use a Divine Smite, an Eldritch Smite, and a Smite spell (Let's say, Searing Smite) on the same attack. That's awesome, but My question is, can the attack that you smite through be Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade? I feel like it might've been Sage'd but I'm not sure.

DracoKnight
2020-04-13, 02:02 PM
You can, because Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, and the Smite spells are not dependent on the Attack action, merely on making a Weapon Attack, which is performed as part of the casting of Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade. Which means if you combine 2 levels of Paladin and 5 levels of Warlock, and 13 levels of Rogue you can Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, Searing Smite, Booming Blade, and Sneak Attack all on the same attack, as long as you used a finesse weapon to perform the attack.

Phhase
2020-04-13, 02:15 PM
You can, because Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, and the Smite spells are not dependent on the Attack action, merely on making a Weapon Attack, which is performed as part of the casting of Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade. Which means if you combine 2 levels of Paladin and 5 levels of Warlock, and 13 levels of Rogue you can Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, Searing Smite, Booming Blade, and Sneak Attack all on the same attack, as long as you used a finesse weapon to perform the attack.

Nice! Don't forget Assassin to double the number of handfuls of dice! Out of curiosity, can you use the same spell slot to Divine and Eldritch Smite, or not? Seems like not.

Dork_Forge
2020-04-13, 02:19 PM
Nice! Don't forget Assassin to double the number of handfuls of dice! Out of curiosity, can you use the same spell slot to Divine and Eldritch Smite, or not? Seems like not.

You need separate slots to fuel each ability, with Eldritch Smite specifically requiring a Warlock slot.

Toofey
2020-04-13, 02:55 PM
I'm going to point out that no. Because booming Blade and Green blah blah are spells that require a to hit roll, and include your weapon damage, not Attacks as part of an attack action which would be what smites attach to and what provide the opening to cast the Smite spell.

Dork_Forge
2020-04-13, 02:56 PM
I'm going to point out that no. Because booming Blade and Green blah blah are spells that require a to hit roll, and include your weapon damage, not Attacks as part of an attack action which would be what smites attach to and what provide the opening to cast the Smite spell.

They are spells that as part of casting them you make a weapon attack, as indicated by it using a physical modifier not your spell modifier. Neither Smite class features or any of the Smite spells refer to the Attack action, only hitting with a weapon attack.

LudicSavant
2020-04-13, 04:44 PM
So looking at the rules, it seems completely valid to use a Divine Smite, an Eldritch Smite, and a Smite spell (Let's say, Searing Smite) on the same attack. That's awesome, but My question is, can the attack that you smite through be Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade? I feel like it might've been Sage'd but I'm not sure.

Yes, it can.

BloodSnake'sCha
2020-04-14, 04:42 AM
Nice! Don't forget Assassin to double the number of handfuls of dice! Out of curiosity, can you use the same spell slot to Divine and Eldritch Smite, or not? Seems like not.

Different slots (you don't get double for nothing).

Also, add whispers bard for extra dice of psic damage.

chando
2020-04-14, 12:22 PM
You can also add whisper bard for psychic blades smite-like in your smite fest, and smitefuel.

sithlordnergal
2020-04-15, 05:05 AM
So looking at the rules, it seems completely valid to use a Divine Smite, an Eldritch Smite, and a Smite spell (Let's say, Searing Smite) on the same attack. That's awesome, but My question is, can the attack that you smite through be Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade? I feel like it might've been Sage'd but I'm not sure.

Yup, you can stack all of that together, and toss in a Heavy Weapon Master for a +10 damage on top of all that. Or you can take a rapier, grab some bard levels, and add sneak attack and psychic damage. If you crit, things are gonna feel it.

Skylivedk
2020-04-15, 06:18 AM
A mini smite like feel can also be added by the battle master, so for maximum smite for, we're probably looking at something like:
4 battle master
5 whispers bard (if ASIs are not super important you can go 6 here and 3 battle master giving you Mantle of Whispers and a lvl 4 slot for smiting or AoA).
3 assassin
2 Paladin
6 Hexblade

-> which also happens to be a character I'd love to give a go. Choices with all actions, tons of skills, spells and good Nova. My version doesn't use assassin though (check the eclectic builds thread by LudicSavant).

Random Sanity
2020-04-15, 06:23 AM
You can, because Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, and the Smite spells are not dependent on the Attack action, merely on making a Weapon Attack, which is performed as part of the casting of Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade. Which means if you combine 2 levels of Paladin and 5 levels of Warlock, and 13 levels of Rogue you can Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, Searing Smite, Booming Blade, and Sneak Attack all on the same attack, as long as you used a finesse weapon to perform the attack.

And then roll a 1 to hit because RNG hates you. :smalltongue:

Chronos
2020-04-15, 07:43 AM
You could also make the attack with a Shadow Blade, but then you'd have to give up the Searing Smite because concentration.

jmartkdr
2020-04-15, 08:02 AM
Also fun if you play an elf with Elven Accuracy, put a Hexblade's Curse on the target, and make the paladin Oath of Vengeance for easy advantage - if I'm mathing right, it's a 27% chance to crit per attack. Throw in polearm master (although that removes Sneak Attack from the hit) and you get three chances, which is a 61% chance of critting at least once.

DracoKnight
2020-04-15, 01:04 PM
And then roll a 1 to hit because RNG hates you. :smalltongue:

Smite spells such as Searing Smite apply to your next attack that hits. And Divine Smite and Eldritch Smite you don't have to declare until AFTER you hit (which is why a lot of people save those features until they crit). So really, you only waste your Action, and you can go again next turn.

Chronos
2020-04-16, 08:10 AM
On the other hand, for low attack rolls in general, you might want to toss in some War Cleric (possibly even just a party-mate). +10 will turn almost any roll into a hit.

Rowan Wolf
2020-04-16, 03:26 PM
Also fun if you play an elf with Elven Accuracy, put a Hexblade's Curse on the target, and make the paladin Oath of Vengeance for easy advantage - if I'm mathing right, it's a 27% chance to crit per attack. Throw in polearm master (although that removes Sneak Attack from the hit) and you get three chances, which is a 61% chance of critting at least once.

Would take a few rounds to set up as you use mulitple bonus actions one each for Vow, Curse, and the smite spell, before the PAM attack could be used and if you don't crit on the first hit your smite spell is used.

Joe the Rat
2020-04-17, 04:12 PM
Make it a bugbear, to throw an extra 2d6 on top of your triple smite surprise assasination strike.
(Layer in 3sorc so you can get a subtle searing smite)

And after that, you go take a nap. Because that's what bugbears do. Hit hard and hit fast, and you don't have to work as hard.

Phoenix042
2020-04-17, 06:37 PM
You can, because Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, and the Smite spells are not dependent on the Attack action, merely on making a Weapon Attack, which is performed as part of the casting of Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade. Which means if you combine 2 levels of Paladin and 5 levels of Warlock, and 13 levels of Rogue you can Divine Smite, Eldritch Smite, Searing Smite, Booming Blade, and Sneak Attack all on the same attack, as long as you used a finesse weapon to perform the attack.

This was the basis for the build I did a while back called "One shot, one kill," in which we tried to pile as much damage as we could into a single ranged attack.

That one obviously couldn't benefit from divine smite, but we did end up with over 200 average damage on a single attack in the end, without relying on magic items, magical team support, or external buffs of any kind.

In fact I think his damage was still almost 200 even if he didn't get a round to prepare or anything.

With a melee character using one of the blade cantrips plus divine smite, you could stack a little more damage on there.

Now we want banishing smite since it's the best smite spell, so we need 9 levels of warlock (plus that gives us the full maximum of 6d8 eldritch smite damage).

We want a lot of sneak attack dice, but the first two levels of paladin (needed for divine smite) are much better than any two levels of rogue, so we end up with:
Hexblade 9 / Paladin 2 / Assassin rogue 9
So our eldritch smite is 6d8, our sneak attack is 5d6, and our divine smite could use a pact magic slot, but we're using that for banishing smite so we'll just use a regular 1st level slot from paladin for that instead.

For sneak attack, the weapon must be finesse, and for divine smite it must be melee, so we'll go with a rapier. At 2nd level of paladin, we'll take the dueling fighting style, and with warlock we'll grab improved pact weapon (rather than assuming a magic rapier).

And we'll take bugbear as our race, for the extra 2d6 surprise attack damage

So we end up with a +12 attack bonus, and we do:
Weapon damage: 1d8
Ability mod: +5
Dueling: +2
Improved pact weapon: +1
Sneak Attack: +5d6
Surprise attack: +2d6
Banishing smite: +5d10
Eldritch smite: +6d8
Divine smite: +2d8
Cantrip: +3d8

For a total of 8 + 5d10 + 12d8 +7d6.
And since we're an assassin, lets assume we surprise the target and those dice are doubled.
So 8 + 10d10 + 24d8 + 14d6.
That's 8 + 55 + 84 + 35 = 196 damage, on average.

And yea, that all works RAW.

The big damage source you're missing here is GWM or SS adding that +10, but because of that we also have a really good attack bonus (+12), and really the 10 extra damage was never going to be worth it. You can't mix GWM with sneak attack in any way that I'm aware of, so I think we might be about at our limit for damage done in a single melee attack made without prep time, allies help, or magic items.

EDIT: 24d8 should be 108 on average, not 84, so our total average damage is actually 220

Phoenix042
2020-04-17, 06:52 PM
Quick edit:

I realized with another two levels of hexblade instead of rogue, we get a third pact magic slot (at 5th level) to burn on divine smite instead of using the paladin's 1st level slot. We only lose 1d6 sneak attack in the trade, so we get:
Eldritch smite: 6d8
Divine smite: 5d8
Banishing smite: 5d10
cantrip: 3d8
sneak attack: 4d6
surprise attack: 2d6
rapier: 1d8

all doubled from assassinate, so total is 10d10, 30d8, 12d6, +8, or 55 + 135 + 42 + 8 = 240 average damage on our single melee attack.

We also just burned 3 5th level spell slots on a single attack.

Luckily, we still have two 1st level slots for our next attack.