Help me settle on a monk build

[Igotnothin]

So I am down to three builds for a monk to play in a party of 5 in a tier I-III campaign. Please weigh in on these if you have monk experience (I usually play Rangers). I've worked them out to level 4, where they will be pretty equal:

1. V. Human with Mobile feat
2. Wood Elf with Elven Accuracy
3. Ghostwise Halfling with Squat Nimbleness (option for Second Chance, but the first choice equalizes the builds)

After the level 4 ASI, all three builds will have equal stats, equal hit points and AC, equal To-Hit and damage mods, equal proficiency in the same skills of Acrobatics, Athletics, Stealth, Insight, and Perception. The only practical differences will be from the Feats and the Racial traits. Since from level 4 on, all of the ASIs will mostly likely go into boosting DEX and WIS, these will really be the only differences at any point.

The other party members will be a Great Weapon Paladin, a Polearm Fighter, a heavy armor and shield Cleric, and a Wizard. Assume low (but not zero) magic items, and a roughly equal mix of urban/social, wilderness exploration, and dungeon diving. No multiclassing. No UA class feature variants. The monk's role in the party will be primarily to get through the front line and shut down casters and archers, then try to get advantage for the martials. Probably also scout, since no one else will have stealth.

So which build will age the best as levels progress, and which of the subclasses would synergize best with the party? I'm picking between Open Hand, Shadow, Long Death, Drunken, and Kensei. The subclass capstone ability at 17 will probably never come into play.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[nickl_2000]

So, based on the group of people you are mentioning I don't see a lot of ways that you can get advantage against an enemy (aside from the Shadow Monk 6th level ability shadow step). So, I don't really see Elven Accuracy being as useful for you as someone who will be able to get advantage more reliably.

Personally given that party and the role you are playing, I would go with Mobile VHuman Shadow Monk. You are going to be hard pressed to find a better monk scout than a Shadow Monk (silence, pass without a trace, darkness) and being able to teleport will get you into and out of places that are difficult for others to do. Being able to silence a caster or put darkness around a caster so they can't see anyone will shut them down in an amazing way, and mobile will help you get there and out much more safely.

[Igotnothin]

Thnaks. I was thinking Stunning Strike failed saves would grant advantage. Also, knocking prone via Open Hand.

[nickl_2000]

Thnaks. I was thinking Stunning Strike failed saves would grant advantage. Also, knocking prone via Open Hand.

True, I will admit I completely forgot about the power of Open Hand Prone, especially in this party. I still like Shadow Monk for you, but I really like shadow Monk personally, so I may be biased

[CorporateSlave]

I'd go with the Wood Elf but still take Mobile over Elven Accuracy. Advantage vs Triple Advantage isn't all that great without much benefit from crit-fishing. The extra-extra movement will come in handy all the time if you're really trying to blast to the rear ranks, as will avoiding Difficult Terrain and the free-Disengage after you hit someone you really need to make it past intact.

Although Kensei is a personal favorite of mine, and your party doesn't look to have a ton of ranged attack options (or magic weapon attacks, as magic items may be limited as you say), Shadow is probably going to be more useful in a party lacking a Ranger or Rogue. Besides, as a Wood Elf you'd get Longbow proficiency anyway right? Open Hand has some great features, but seems a little one-dimensional in focus for what your party and campaign sound like. One other benefit to Kensei that is often undersold is Agile Parry, very useful with Patient Defense if you find yourself separated in the rear ranks and surrounded, especially at lower levels where +2 AC and Disadvantage on Attacks often comes close to being invulnerable. However, the benefits of Shadow if you're going to be the scout probably outweighs that anyway.

[Igotnothin]

I'd go with the Wood Elf but still take Mobile over Elven Accuracy.

Thanks. I should have clarified we are using Point Buy, so taking a full feat at level 4 leaves an elf or halfling down one DEX point.That's why I picked as i did. I know the power of Mobile for a monk.

[Segev]

When I had a V. Human monk in my game, his Mobile feat let him jet all over the battlefield and never suffer AoOs, leaving enemies being pummelled like they were fighting the Flash, hitting them and being gone before they can do anything about it. He seemed to have fun, but he also retired the character to bring in a Warlock Hexblade at level 4. I think that has more to do with wanting to try new characters than a lack of enjoyment of the character, though.

[Bundin]

As it's not all combat, what race speaks to you the most from a rp perspective? This isn't an answer to the question you asked, but for a longer campaign that doesn't revolve solely around combat, it'll have an impact on a sizable chunk of the adventure.

[Quietus]

I'd definitely look at Shadow monk for this, any of the races would be fine. Your party has the combat side already locked down, they're going to need support in and out of combat situations. Use your mobility and the Darkness ability to shut down the back lines of the enemy, rush in to grapple a caster then either Silence or Darkness so they can't cast, or later on use stunning strike. Use Pass without Trace so even the clankiest of your party has +10 to their stealth roll. I'd be tempted to go with the wood elf, or even possibly goblin for the bonus action hide.

[Daphne]

You don't need the Mobile feat if you go Drunken Master since you get disengage as a freebie when you use Flurry of Blows. That's an option if you want to play a Wood Elf or Halfling Monk.

[Igotnothin]

As it's not all combat, what race speaks to you the most from a rp perspective?

True. Probably not wood elf due to past ranger experience.


Your party has the combat side already locked down, they're going to need support in and out of combat situations.

True, I won't need to be the DPR guy or tank.


You don't need the Mobile feat if you go Drunken Master since you get disengage as a freebie when you use Flurry of Blows. That's an option if you want to play a Wood Elf or Halfling Monk.

Yes, and Open Hand can take reactions away with Flurry of Blows. Those would be the only two subclasses where I might spend a point of ki on Flurry, as I will probably be prioritizing Stunning Strike during combat. Shadow monks have good alternate uses for ki, and Kensei can add Dodge to Agile parry for great AC.

[CTurbo]

I like the 5e Monk. Long Death, Open Hand, and Shadow are my 3 favorite subclasses.

I would personally NOT play a Shadow Monk with a race that doesn't have darkvision. Shadow Step is limited to area that you can see. So if you want to go Shadow Monk, I'd go Wood Elf, but skip on the Elven Accuracy. Observant would be more useful if you want a 1/2 feat. Better yet Wood Elf starting 16 Dex and Wis would allow for a more well rounded ASI spread.

I do like the idea of a Ghostwise Halfling Long Death Monk with Squat Nimbleness.

Have you considered Aarakocra? They make amazing Monks

[Sorinth]

Given the party composition going Open Hand is probably your best option as being able to knock an enemy prone or push them back will greatly help the Paladin & Fighter. You have a lot of teamup options with a PAM/Sentinel Glaive wielder, and knocking peole prone so the Paladin can crit smite is always strong. So it's hard to beat a Wood Elf with Mobile.

Leave the scouting to the Wizard's Familiar.

[MrStabby]

I would say shadowmonk for your monk subclass. Not only is it powerful but as the most mobile it adds the most to what is a pretty static party. Skip mobile, its... kind of ok on a monk but not as good as on a lot of other classes, and when you get shadow step it gets a bit redundant.

For race... I would go halfling. Stats are good and it has a lot of nice abilities. Using monk weapons, using monk mobility the downsides kind of fade away a lot.

[Expired]

Thanks. I should have clarified we are using Point Buy, so taking a full feat at level 4 leaves an elf or halfling down one DEX point.That's why I picked as i did. I know the power of Mobile for a monk.
Using point buy and starting with 15 Dex (+2 Elven racial trait) allows you to take both Elven Accuracy and Mobile while still having enough ASIs to max Dex and Wis for AC and save DCs. Personally, I would go Way of the Open Hand Monk and take EA at level 4. You'll get triple advantage and 18 Dex at level 4.

[Igotnothin]

Thanks for all the feedback. Shockingly, not everyone is in agreement! A case can be made for all three races and all 5 subclasses.


Have you considered Aarakocra? They make amazing Monks

PHB, XGtE, and SCAG only.

[Igotnothin]

Leave the scouting to the Wizard's Familiar.

Yes, of course. Totally overlooked that.

[Keravath]

Personally, I have a level 9 V human shadow monk with the mobile feat. It is great fun to play. He found a pair of goggles of night early on but shadow monks can also cast Darkvision for 2 ki (lasts 8 hours but ki is fully restored on a short rest). The wizard can also get it in their spell book and may be willing to cast it as well.

If one of your jobs is to interdict casters at some distance from the party then I don't think any other monk subclass can do as well as a shadow monk with the mobile feat. Shadow step 60' and can move even further if necessary, attack and possibly stun the caster or consider casting darkness or silence depending on the nature of the threat.

The biggest challenge with monks is that their ASIs are very constrained. They want to boost dex and wis which will take at least four ASIs to max out. Dex for damage/to hit/init/ac etc and wis for DC/AC etc. This means that most monks except variant human only have one more ASI and mobile is very tempting. The extra movement is surprisingly useful ... being able to dash and not pay the cost for difficult terrain is also situationally useful and since monks are skirmishers being able to fall back after attacking is gold. You don't always want to use your bonus action and ki in order to use flurry of blows so you can move without taking an op attack ... and if you don't have any of these abilities you end up stuck in melee and with a paladin, fighter and cleric there ... the monk is the easiest to hit and probably the first choice for nearby creatures.

If you were going to be close to the melee all the time then open hand would be tempting for knocking targets prone. It is not good for ranged attacks but everyone adjacent will get advantage.

One comment on elven advantage - it will make it easier to hit when you have advantage. However, each hit from a monk doesn't do that much damage. Having triple advantage does proportionally less to ensure a hit than the first level of advantage. However, in most cases you would hit anyway most of the time with just advantage. On characters with sharpshooter or GWM and a reliable way to obtain advantage, it is a great ability. However, without those, I'd probably rate mobile as overall more useful for a monk.

[Keravath]

Leave the scouting to the Wizard's Familiar.

Wizard's familiars when scouting on their own can often end up eaten, at least in my experience, so being functionally capable of scouting can be a useful ability for a character. However, warlock familiars typically have greater survivability ... particularly the imp.

[Sorinth]

Wizard's familiars when scouting on their own can often end up eaten, at least in my experience, so being functionally capable of scouting can be a useful ability for a character. However, warlock familiars typically have greater survivability ... particularly the imp.

Sure, but they can be re-summoned. If you are scouting alone and run into what ate the familiar it could be much worse.

Part of the reason it seems worse for familiars is that people will push beyond the first "encounter" to try and see even more because it's not a big deal if the familiar gets killed. Whereas a PC will stop at the first encounter and not push their luck.

And at the end of the day, any monk with proficiency in Stealth is going to be decent at scouting, Shadow monk is just much better. But is the difference between being a good scout and being a great scout really worth it? Probably not.

[AttilatheYeon]

I mean a ghostwise halfing anything monk is too adorable not to play. I really like the idea of a ghostwise longdeath monk, but open hand would be way too adorable.

[Foxhound438]

I know that Vumans often start to feel a bit bland, especially if that's all you ever play, but Mobile is a really nice thing to have from level 1, especially in a party that's otherwise all frontline. The extra 10' can be very useful. You don't get darkvision which can hurt if you're trying to sneak around, but... if you're going to be sneaking around, shadow monk gets darkvision (the spell) to make up for that. I've played many monks of many flavors, and mobile Vuman always felt best. (well, second best, but I get the feeling you aren't looking for a splendid wizard who can't cast a single evocation).

Elven accuracy has always looked unimpressive to me, since you're already getting a really high chance to hit with 2d20, and the increase in accuracy becomes pretty marginal. You don't have divine smite or anything like that to really leverage the extra crits either. If you do go this route, Kensai is the obvious choice- ranged attacks with a bow get around the lower mobility, and deft strike helps your crit damage for when you do get the 3d20.

I'm not sure I'm on board with the halfling at all... Maybe just a preference thing, but the feat doesn't do all that much for you. Getting the halfling's luck is probably the bigger help here, and since you have so many attacks in a round you would expect to get more uses out of it, but it's just not my style.

[Igotnothin]

I mean a ghostwise halfing anything monk is too adorable not to play. I really like the idea of a ghostwise longdeath monk, but open hand would be way too adorable.

I think so too, and even more so for the Halfling Drunken Master, but Open Hand probably offers more to the party.


You don't get darkvision which can hurt if you're trying to sneak around, but... if you're going to be sneaking around, shadow monk gets darkvision (the spell) to make up for that. ... Getting the halfling's luck is probably the bigger help here, and since you have so many attacks in a round you would expect to get more uses out of it, but it's just not my style.

It almost feels like the Darkvision ability was added specifically to allow other races than Wood Elf to play Shadow monk.

While Halfling Luck (re-roll all 1s) is included no matter what, how do you feel about Second Chance (make opp re-roll on a hit once per rest) vs Squat Nimbleness? it would sync well with Drunken Master's redirect and Drunkard's Luck abilities and the Lucky Feat later on. Makes a nice thematic ultimate lucky halfling character.


and if you don't have any of these abilities you end up stuck in melee and with a paladin, fighter and cleric there ... the monk is the easiest to hit and probably the first choice for nearby creatures.

Good point. Would eventfully catch up in AC, but not for several levels.