Easy non-Cha intimidation (potential homebrew advice for 3.5e)

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all,

I know I asked something similar a few years ago, but I thought I would revisit it.

It has always bugged me that your huge barbarian covered in scars and wielding a notched and rusty battle axe, and therefore with a natural penalty to diplomacy, is somehow also bad at scaring people into doing things.

While a simple fix is to swap Intimidation from Cha to Con, that then hamstrings the super charismatic guy from also being intimidating, which is certainly something they excel at.

I have a number of ideas to fix this for my own world (which is beginning to amass a number of homebrew rules as it is).

A homebrew rule where characters freely choose either Cha or Con for intimidation. This is a one and done choice. Why Con? Because Dex directly affects AC and Ref, Str is the damage stat, while Con is use for Fort saves, its rarely someone's highest stat, but its usually fairly good for everyone, and it directly reflects someones imposing stature. This is the easiest option but why would people NOT take it unless they were a Cha focused caster?
A homebrew feat that does the same and can be taken at level 1. On the one hand, it prevents everyone taking it, on the other hand, it helps to feat starve martials, who are already feat starved.
Either of the above, but restricted to +1 BAB at level 1 characters. Cool, but what about Mr Rogue who is pretty intimidating spinning his knife around?
A real feat or feature, potentially with a handwave on requirements - its robust and I like homebrew that is really just something from somewhere else. But I dont know any feats or features that do this.



Any thoughts? Anyone else done this?

[Segev]

Just because your manner of dress gives you a penalty to diplomacy doesn’t mean you’re necessarily low Charisma. If you’re repulsive but scary, that can be average Charisma coupled with circumstance penalties to diplomacy while you also have actual ranks in intimidation and possibly circumstance bonuses to it.

The big thing is that most intimidation is, if not subtle, at least about presence. And that’s Charisma. If you’re willing to go over-the-too in displays of temper and might, you could justify a Strength(intimidation) check instead of Charisma. But you can also just bypass a check entirely if the DM feels the target is in fear of his immediate safety and you’re not asking him to betray some deep-seated loyalty.

“Your money or your life” doesn’t take a skill roll unless your target isn’t convinced you can hurt/kill him. That usually requires less social skill and more demonstration of willingness and ability.

[Heavenblade]

If you dont mind pf, intimidating prowess lets you intimidate with strength

[Shocksrivers]

I allow my players to use str instead of cha for out of combat intimidating, because it is extremely silly to me that the bard is more scary then the barbarian, if they choose to be scary. It also allows the fighters and such a role in conversations, and if a charismatic person wants to intimidate that is still fine of course. For combat related actions with intimidate, like duel of wills and such, I am not sure whether to allow it, because I feel it could easily be broken, but I never ran the numbers or something.

So, in a casual group that just wants to have fun and isn't trying to abuse the leeway you give them, Str for intimidate is fine. Con would, I presume, also be fine, but in my role play it usually came down to "I dangle the guy from the window with one hand, is he scared now" which is more strengthy than constitutiony

[Piggy Knowles]

As a DM, I just apply a circumstance bonus to intimidate if the intimidating party appears to be actively dangerous to the target. I also just don't require a check at all in many instances. But it's important to remember that intimidate, despite the name, is NOT about scaring people or showing off how tough you are. It's about either demoralizing them in combat, or as an alternative form of diplomacy out of combat. Both of these require some actual social awareness and proficiency.

Basically, you don't necessarily need an intimidate check to convince the guard that he's going to die if he doesn't let you into the castle crypt. Any sufficient display of force should do that just fine, and if that's your goal, I'll never require you to roll an intimidate check at all, and if that's all it takes to convince the guard then all is gravy. However, you might need an intimidate check to convince said guard that it's worth it to betray his oaths because of that show of force, which is something that takes more than muscles (though again, I might grant you a circumstance bonus for the puppy you ripped in half while demonstrating your ruthlessness).

[ShurikVch]

There are some things which were already published:

Fearsome Gaze
Your merest glance can break a man's will to fight.
Level: 6th.
Replaces: If you choose this ability, you do not gain the indomitable will ability and your trap sense ability is reduced by 1.
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks and can use Strength instead of Charisma as your key ability for Intimidate. You and your target must be within 60 feet and must be able to see one another.
Variant Intimidation Rules
It's an unfortunate fact that the barbarian, regardless of his might, can still fail to intimidate foes who are cowed by the stylish bard or the magnetic sorcerer. The two optional rules presented here are designed to make the barbarian a bit more frightening. These rules work whether the barbarian is raging or not, though rage does increase their effectiveness.
Raging Intimidation: A raging barbarian gains a +4 bonus to both his Strength and his Constitution scores. This variant also grants him a +4 morale bonus on his Intimidate checks. After all, when a barbarian begins to scream and froth at the mouth, just about anyone is a little more likely to do what he says.
Intimidation through Strength: Sometimes it's appropriate to change the key ability score of a particular skill. While Intimidation is usually a function of Charisma, this rule allows the barbarian to apply his Strength modifier rather than his Charisma modifier to Intimidate checks. This assumes, of course, that he accompanies such attempts with appropriate displays of might, such as breaking objects or showing off impressive muscles. A barbarian who is raging is even better at intimidation because of his increased Strength score.

[Psyren]

If you dont mind pf, intimidating prowess lets you intimidate with strength

This is the easiest solution, just port it back. It adds your modifiers together, so charismatic folks aren't penalized by it, and ones who are both strong and charismatic (like a bloodrager, a paladin or a dragon disciple) get to double-dip for even bigger intimidate bonuses. Here is the feat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/intimidating-prowess-combat/)

[Vaern]

My group always houseruled that using a show of brute strength to physically threatening someone could warrant the use of strength instead of charisma for intimidate checks, even before Pathfinder was a thing and offered the ability to make such a substitution. This was contingent on how you were using the skill and required no feats, features, or special abilities.

[Angrith]

As a DM, I use Pathfinder's Intimidating Prowess feat for STR to intimidate. I'm also liberal with circumstantial bonuses. Did you just cleave someone in two? That's a bonus. Are you wearing the bones of sentient creatures? Take a bonus. It let's the barbarians be the more brute force intimidating, while bards and sorcerers can be the more sinister type.

[Vander Nars]

There is a variant rules in one of the 3.0 books that handles fighters/barbarians using strength instead of charisma. I dont personally think con makes sense, no matter how healthy you are its not gonna scare me, however if you crush a wooden mud into pieces with your bare hands, well thats different and very scary.

[Psyren]

While being particularly sturdy can be scary (see also Tyrant / Nemesis of Resident Evil fame), that usually requires no-selling something that the viewer would see as a very damaging attack, i.e. not the sort of thing you can just roll for outside of combat.

[Batcathat]

While being particularly sturdy can be scary (see also Tyrant / Nemesis of Resident Evil fame), that usually requires no-selling something that the viewer would see as a very damaging attack, i.e. not the sort of thing you can just roll for outside of combat.

You could always smash a glass or something against your face. I could see that intimidating someone even if it's technically not very damaging (at least not in the game. Don't try this at home. :smallamused:)

[Segev]

You could always smash a glass or something against your face. I could see that intimidating someone even if it's technically not very damaging (at least not in the game. Don't try this at home. :smallamused:)

I mean, if you can even hit your own AC with an improvized weapon, what's 1d4+Str slashing damage to the face between friends? :smallcool:


(Seriously, do not try that at home, kids. :smalleek: )

[Telonius]

I came up with a houserule (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?10711-House-Rule-Intimidate-Bonuses) idea for this sometime in the late Jurassic, but I (along with the posters) wasn't really satisfied with the results.