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Confusedbugbear
2020-04-16, 10:47 PM
Update!

My group just finished session one, and I was really surprised with how everything turned out.

We got campaign materials yesterday, along with a map, a history of the setting, and a list of towns and factions. It's honestly like nothing I've ever seen. The best way I can describe it is part Mass Effect and part Mad Max. There's a massive alien artifact that controls the weather, a kaiju graveyard (that's my T-Rex), Luddite druids leading gangs of techno barbarians (our first fight!). It's not high fantasy, but it's definitely mythic, and it was so cool seeing our ideas come to life like this.

I never realized how rich a world is when you just leave stuff in the background. Our first battle was the group trying to recover a light that fell from the sky. On our way to an abandoned castle we saw the bones of giant next to a massive suit of armor that had been scrapped, a huge lance jammed into the Giants bones. Now we are are excited for mecha and I'm not even sure how you'd do that in 5e, but who cares, this sounds awesome.

It's very different, less combat focused and more about survival and engineering. I built a melee character and I might switch to something else if it ends up being light on combat, but I'm happy so far. One good thing is that we had a really clear objective, which was great.

I'm glad I stayed on, so thanks for all the advice and encouragement. I might ask for help making an Artificer if we go in a more survival route. It'll be my first time with a more spell based class, but maybe that's a good thing, I've only ever played fighter types before.

Original Post

I just got out of the strangest session of my life and I'm trying to get some help understanding what went on.

I've been playing D&D now for the past two years with some friends, running through campaigns like Curse of Strahd or playing parts of Yawning Portal, even some DM Guild stuff. I've always had fun, and I've played 3 different characters, mostly fighter types.

Since the while quarantine hit, my group was trying to get a game online, but our DM has scheduling issues and we couldn't make it happen. One of my friends pulled in a guy we'll call Marco in as a DM. Couldn't stop talking about how good a DM he was. I was excited, but things got very strange after. He said this would be a session zero and he wanted us to talk about the game we wanted.

Instead of coming to us with a scenario, he started asking us questions. Like, what genre did we want to play, what movies we wanted this to feel like, what music we could imagine playing in the background as we fought. We actually spent time looking for different music on YouTube to set the scene. He never mentioned a campaign or a storyline once. He ended by asking what elements we wanted to see in a game, and said it could be anything we wanted -- ninja assassin's, alien landscapes, car chases, whatever.

All of this took like 2 hours, and we had some wild things in there. I didn't feel like I contribute that much, but we ended up saying the setting would be mythic world with abandoned tech and mutants like Mad Max, and it would have base building.

At the end he pulled up a blank world map and asked us to add any landmarks we wanted, literally anything. I put a giant t Rex skeleton on there because why the hell not, I have no idea what's going on.

The last thing we do is talk about characters, but only within the broadest sense. He asks us what classes and backgrounds we'd like to play, and how he things our classes would "navigate the world," like, what is it like to be a paladin in this world.

So, I've never been in a game like this. I didn't know there were games like this. Half of me is super confused and a bit angry, like I thought that a DM usually came with the game already built, and this seemed like he was asking us to make the world? It was really strange, I've never had a DM ask me why genre I liked, and the music thing really threw me off.

Is this how most DMs are? My friends and I just play created adventures, I'm not sure how to react. I thought it was cool that Marco let me decide what it was like to be a paladin in the world, but I'm not sure what to expect. This is way different from what I've done before and I'm nervous. Have any of you had any experience with this kind of DM? What can I do to be a good player in this situation?

False God
2020-04-16, 11:09 PM
I think it's one of two common approaches to DMing.

You're more used to what I would call a "top down" approach, the DM shows up, he tells you how things are gonna be. This is the world. This is the adventure. This is how nature/the gods/classes/civilization looks. You build a character and insert it into the world, and go from there.

I'd say there's a good amount of DMs who approach things from Marco's angle as well. Maybe not to such the degree that he did, but I see a lot of games and a lot of DMs get input from the players on what the players would like to see/encounter/do in the game.

----

The big risk to the top down approach is always that you'll show up with ABC prepared and the players just aren't interested. The risk in the "communal" approach is that it's often hard to get players to participate on what they often feel "isn't their job".

I'm glad to see you bought into it, even if you didn't really get it and it was new and confusing and made you angry. Quite honestly your high-magic mad-max setting sounds freaking cool (and has been on my list of settings to create for a while).

TLDR protip: keep buying in. Even if you don't get it and its confusing and sometimes makes you angry. When the DM asks for input, try to come up with something. It need not be world shattering. But even something as small as "adding a t-rex skeleton to the landscape" could lead the DM to decide that dinosaurs aren't extinct, and this skeleton is recent, and that means something bigger and meaner is out there.

Saint-Just
2020-04-16, 11:16 PM
It's how some DMs are. Most DMs do not limit themselves to the published adventures and even with published adventures do not play 100% by the book. Many DMs take input from the players in the world-building (the one very prevalent way is saying to players "take any race\class\feats\ACF that you want from anywhere" - most worlds do not have literally every race and every obscure prestige class which comes with the organization attached - but DM's do modify worlds so that they accidentally have every race that any of the players selected).

So far I do not think that there's sufficient information to reach any conclusion. Broadly speaking if he stops soliciting world-building information then I do not think that world spun up from the players' suggestions is somehow worse than one created by DM or writers. On the other hand if he continues to seek player input on things that are not in the player's way to affect (e.g. asking "where do you wish dark elves to hail from") that is certainly stretching the definition of roleplaying game - may be fun but definitely not usual.

Zhorn
2020-04-16, 11:47 PM
A big part of the fun for the DM is the player's buy-in. The old 'if you had fun, then I had fun' mantra. Getting information from the players on what types of games, themes, and concepts that they enjoy is just stacking the deck in favour of having a game the player will enjoy, be invested in, and respond to more seriously (not as in a lack of humour, just a more willing involvement in story development and progress).

As a DM, I havn't done this from a top-down approach in the past, but i do something similar for building up character centric quests, story developments, hooks, and generally encounters players express interest in. From there, doing it from a world building point just seems like the next step.

RazorChain
2020-04-17, 12:44 AM
This isn't something new. Often when I GM I throw out 3 or 4 ideas what I want to run and let the players pick. Sometimes we do some world building together and I try to accommodate the players ideas and incorporate their ideas into the game.

If the players all want to play dungeon crawl and exploration then my time will be wasted if I'm focusing on courtly intrigue so asking the players what they want to see and do in your game is very productive for a GM. If my players aren't going to hunt down the Bandid Queen and want to become fearsome pirates and tell me that then I don't need to focus my prep time on the Bandid Queen and can use that time to prepare pirate adventures instead.

I usually ask the players to make characters and then I build a game/story/plot around them rather than the other way around.


To be a good player just listen and learn, go with the flow, flex your creative muscles with some input and give your honest opinion in what you want to see in such a game. Compromise is important as the GM will have to set some boundaries. I hope your GM will turn out to be as great as he claims to be and has some creative vision and the good sense to veto some of the groups ideas because else this could turn out to be a disaster

Kaptin Keen
2020-04-17, 12:45 AM
There are two types of games.

One type is focussed on someone else's imagination: The people who wrote the books, the game, designed the world, drew the map.

The other type is focussed on the players (and the GM's, of course) imagination. Everyone contributes.

I play the second type, pretty much exclusively. But I'm not saying it's better. I'm better at that style of play, but there's certainly drawback - and advantages to playing stuff that was made by professionals.

Powerdork
2020-04-17, 02:35 AM
There are no red flags here. If you have fun, consider checking out a game like Dungeon World, which similarly gives the players influence on elements of the world that they play in.

Pelle
2020-04-17, 08:19 AM
Half of me is super confused and a bit angry, like I thought that a DM usually came with the game already built, and this seemed like he was asking us to make the world? It was really strange, I've never had a DM ask me why genre I liked, and the music thing really threw me off.

The GM is asking you what kind of game you would like to play, trying to make it more fun by accomodating your and everyones' preferences. How can you be angry about that?

kyoryu
2020-04-17, 09:22 AM
It's fairly common in narrative-style games to have this happen, to various extents. He's going fairly far with it, but he seems like a pretty competent narrative-style GM.

Look at the bright side - everyone has a good idea of what this world is, and what to expect. From overall tone, to objectives, to what it means to be a paladin in this world, everybody probably has a good idea of what to expect next session. That's golden and will get rid of a ton of potential conflict.

That, and you have a game world that is chock full of stuff that you and your friends think is awesome. And don't worry, the GM will add his own stuff, too! Think of it as something like Iron Chef... you've given the GM a list of ingredients, and they have to use those. But how they blend those ingredients together, and what other ingredients they add in, are completely up to them!

If you continue in this game, expect:


A ton of decision-making. You'll be presented with problems that have no clear solutions.
A lot of things that happen in the plot that are directly relevant to your characters in some way. This will not be a generic adventure any party could go on.
Likely a heavy emphasis on interpersonal relationships, both between the party and NPCs
A real feeling that your actions and decisions have impact
Not a ton of highly-prepped encounters, and perhaps fewer set-pieces
Probably a higher focus on descriptive actions. "I use Diplomacy" won't cut it. And "no, you can't start a diplomatic negotiation with the orcs in the middle of a fight" may be said as well.
It's very possible that the GM will hold a rule basically something like "things have to make sense in the game world before you can use the mechanics".


This isn't guaranteed, of course, but it's very common for games run by this style of GM. And some or all of those may be in play, but don't be surprised by them.

Also, it's possible that the GM may still ask for some level of player authorship over the course of the game. This could range from asking questions of players not involved in a scene, to asking players involved in a scene. So when you open up a chest, the GM may ask someone at the table what you find. They may ask you. Or they may not. Even when I go high player-authorship for a first session, I often go more traditional GM/player separation after the fact (even though I don't go linear, pre-planned adventure)

The best advice I can give you is to, as much as possible, clear your expectations. This will likely play out differently than most games in a lot of ways. And when you find yourself having the "this isn't how it works!" kind of moments, think to yourself "that's not how other games have worked, but this game is different, so let's see how it plays out". In some ways, it's almost worth thinking of it as a game that's a different type of game that just has some similarities to RPGs.


The GM is asking you what kind of game you would like to play, trying to make it more fun by accomodating your and everyones' preferences. How can you be angry about that?

He's angry because he expects games to "work" a certain way, and this one didn't. He's also self aware enough to get a check on it instead of just going off.

Basically he went to the session prepared to do the usual first session things, with his normal way of approaching it, and got thrown for a loop. The experience can be kinda like going for a drive in a car only to realize that the brake pedal actually activated the headlights and the turn signal was the brake.

patchyman
2020-04-17, 10:54 AM
Sometimes, different is good.

An example that is adjacent to this one. I was DMing, and one of the character had a non-combat interaction with an NPC.

I took one of the players aside, gave her the NPCs motivations and goals in the scene, and had her roleplay the encounter with the character. And she absolutely nailed it! I can say, without reservation, that she did a better job with this scene than I could have.

Not only that, but she was comfortable enough to push the scene further than I would have.

The OP’s DM is giving his players power. Often, this can make for a better game.

Segev
2020-04-17, 11:20 AM
My advice is: take what you now know about the game genre and setting, and what you discussed with your fellow players about what classes you want to play, and start talking to the other players about the party. Discuss character concepts, and ways you'll work together. If possible, determine some broad unifying theme. One I've thought would be amusing, but not yet gotten anybody to buy in on, is, "We're a traveling circus."

You don't have to go that unified at all, but having a reason the party is together will help the DM greatly, I suspect.

The DM is probably building the first quest right now, using elements you gave him. Given the blank map and request for landmarks, he's also setting up a hex-crawl-style game, where you'll be presented with a number of things that could be interesting. The more you know what motivates your character and the party, the better you'll be able to react to various hooks. If he's really good, the initial quest or two will introduce you to people and places with more possible quests.

While it's possible there will be one, don't go in necessarily expecting a "main plot" or "quest line." It can easily be a game almost entirely of side quests, or where quest lines are all their own optional things, some of which cross over with each other.

The landmarks, again, suggest strongly to me that he expects an exploration element, where you'll be given reasons to go investigate things out in the world, and maybe run into these landmarks and other points of interest. Where he'll have anything from a single encounter to an entire dungeon waiting to be explored, which may or may not be directly related to any quests you're currently on. Some may even be quests in and of themselves. "Under the skeleton of a great carnivorous beast lies the hidden treasure-cave of Gorlash the Cruel, bandit king."

JNAProductions
2020-04-17, 12:27 PM
Definitely not how I'd handle a session zero, but I don't see anything there that's a warning sign. This Marco person seems like they might be a more narrative heavy and rules loose DM, which is perfectly fine.

Regardless, I see absolutely no reason not to give Marco a chance. Play in the next few sessions, and see how it goes. If it's fun, great! Enjoy it! If not, talk to him about what's not fun and how it can be improved.

comk59
2020-04-17, 01:26 PM
Repeatedly saying that you're a good DM is a little bit of a flag, but nothing else stands out as especially odd. We do this kind of thing all the time in my campaigns, although maybe not to that degree.

Pelle
2020-04-17, 01:27 PM
Basically he went to the session prepared to do the usual first session things, with his normal way of approaching it, and got thrown for a loop. The experience can be kinda like going for a drive in a car only to realize that the brake pedal actually activated the headlights and the turn signal was the brake.

Or perhaps like going for a bus ride, expecting it to follow the normal route, and then driver asks where he is going and offering to drive him to the door directly so that he don't have to walk a kilometer from the bus stop. Not as expected and I can understand it can be confusing, but not being angry about it.

kyoryu
2020-04-17, 01:30 PM
Or perhaps like going for a bus ride, expecting it to follow the normal route, and then driver asks where he is going and offering to drive him to the door directly so that he don't have to walk a kilometer from the bus stop. Not as expected and I can understand it can be confusing, but not being angry about it.

Yeah, except that this is done without telling the people, he just does it, so the rider is just going "wait, this isn't the right path, this isn't our route!"

GrayDeath
2020-04-17, 01:30 PM
Well, I usually do things that way if I am aiming for a first Adventure with a (for me) new group of experienced Players.

It allows both me to save a LOT of "unnecessary preperations players wont appreciate" and the Players to influence the Game prior to actually playing.

It always led to fun games so far, BUT: It requires more work from the palyers, a group that is communicative and "buys in" the whole "build the world/setting together", which alas many D&D Players wont.

I have for example only seen this approach when 0laying FATE (except for one one Shot), and oftens ee it with our own System, but only once did (and twice saw it) with D&D.

My suggestion: Be open, contrubtue, think about cool stuff you would like integrated and contact the DM before actually playing (and explain he got you on the wrong foot^^), and enjoy a taylor made Adventure!

Pelle
2020-04-17, 01:36 PM
Yeah, except that this is done without telling the people, he just does it, so the rider is just going "wait, this isn't the right path, this isn't our route!"

Disagree, the driving of the route hasn't started yet. I don't think the GM should have asked first if it was ok that he was going to ask about what kind of game they would like to play. It's maybe not necessary to ask for preferences, but it's never a negative thing IMO.

Segev
2020-04-17, 01:38 PM
Repeatedly saying that you're a good DM is a little bit of a flag, but nothing else stands out as especially odd. We do this kind of thing all the time in my campaigns, although maybe not to that degree.

I thought so, too, when I first read the sentence, but on rereading I thought, "It must be the player introducing Marco to the group who is raving about how good a DM Marco is."

Sam113097
2020-04-17, 02:08 PM
At the end he pulled up a blank world map and asked us to add any landmarks we wanted, literally anything. I put a giant t Rex skeleton on there because why the hell not, I have no idea what's going on.

The last thing we do is talk about characters, but only within the broadest sense. He asks us what classes and backgrounds we'd like to play, and how he things our classes would "navigate the world," like, what is it like to be a paladin in this world.

...What can I do to be a good player in this situation?

While not super common, this type of DMing can be super fun if you, as a player, fully buy into the world you worked on with Marco.

That giant dinosaur skeleton that you came up with together sounds super awesome. I bet Marco would appreciate it if your party explored it, and it could be a fun experience for you to see how your idea has been made into a fully-realizing location.

Confusedbugbear
2020-04-17, 03:20 PM
I thought so, too, when I first read the sentence, but on rereading I thought, "It must be the player introducing Marco to the group who is raving about how good a DM Marco is."

Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice. I guess I was more shocked than anything, but I'll keep an open mind. We are supposed to be getting campaign documents tomorrow and play on Sunday, so I'll update once we do our first session. I'm feeling a lot better after talking it over with the other people in the group.

I saw this a few times and I guess I should have been more clear. It was my friend Alexa saying that Marco is a good DM, not Marco himself. I would have walked out if he was bragging like that.

Anonymouswizard
2020-04-18, 05:16 AM
While not super common, this type of DMing can be super fun if you, as a player, fully buy into the world you worked on with Marco.

That giant dinosaur skeleton that you came up with together sounds super awesome. I bet Marco would appreciate it if your party explored it, and it could be a fun experience for you to see how your idea has been made into a fully-realizing location.

It's becoming more common, especially outside the D&D space, a couple of games I own encourage it, and one even insists that characters and world sure created together so that everybody begins with multiple connections to the world.

Which is the trick, the idea behind collaborative world creation is that each poster behind with investment and something they enjoy, as well as a place in the world. Even if not doing it as a session zero I include elements, I'll ask players of priests about their religion's tenants and practices, where warriors and magicians learnt their craft, how street rats managed to avoid dying, and so on.

When I'm the player's seat I'll ask the GM if I can play a character from X ethnicity who practices a religion reminiscent of Y, and as they'd likely come from a region like Z can their clothes be like this, this, and this, as well as potential secrets and plot hooks I'd like to explore. I once asked if permanent shapeshifting spells could be removed from the setting so my character could have gender identity related struggles.

I've added villages that have been wiped out by plagues to the map to justify travelling healers, reclusive orders of martial artists, and in one case time travel all to support character concepts.

The trick is to have fun, there are no wrong answers of the group thinks it'll be cool. Do the players want there to be a doomsday cult? Will there is more, and they're arguing over whether the prophecy says 'a thousand years' or 'ten ages'.

Lvl 2 Expert
2020-04-18, 06:12 AM
Is this how most DMs are? My friends and I just play created adventures, I'm not sure how to react. I thought it was cool that Marco let me decide what it was like to be a paladin in the world, but I'm not sure what to expect. This is way different from what I've done before and I'm nervous. Have any of you had any experience with this kind of DM? What can I do to be a good player in this situation?

No, this is not how most DM's are. But odds are it's better.

We're talking about a DM here who is experienced and comfortable enough with the game that he doesn't need modules and guidelines, and then he surpasses that by not just building his own world but designing an adventure based on the input of several people saying different things. This is most likely going to be awesome.

Of course there is a possibility that he's biting off more than he can chew, that he'll lose track of all the different components he's juggling or will simply stop being motivated enough to keep this up halfway the campaign. But since your friend had played with him and said he was a great DM, he's probably just a great DM.

False God
2020-04-18, 08:23 AM
Or perhaps like going for a bus ride, expecting it to follow the normal route, and then driver asks where he is going and offering to drive him to the door directly so that he don't have to walk a kilometer from the bus stop. Not as expected and I can understand it can be confusing, but not being angry about it.

Anger is a natural human response to the unknown and to confusion. It's way deep down in our lizard brain as part of our fight or flight reflex. The fact that he experienced it, recognized it and was able to work through it shows the guy has a pretty healthy head on his shoulders.

Coventry
2020-04-18, 10:22 PM
I think what you experienced is a good sign.

A long time ago, I started a campaign where one of the players decided she wanted to play a Kender like Tasslehoff Burrfoot. I thought it was great idea, and I came up with a house rule that would mean that player would never need to steal from a party member. In the first session I arranged for the PCs to meet, and then two players figured out that she was playing a Kender and quit in protest. By the time I managed to explain the houserule, the game was over. All the work everyone did to prepare? Wasted. The night was ruined for everyone - and at least one long-standing friendship suffered some damage.

Had I had a session 0, we would have been able to deal with that severe disagreement between the kind of game that the various players would have enjoyed.

Looks at it from "Marco"'s side: he knows your friend, and can probably guess what things will ruin the experience for your friend. But he does not know you, and thus does not know the things that will ruin your experience. Talking to everyone before the game starts gives him a chance to plan for those issues.

Like I said, it's a good sign. Marco is trying to make sure that it works, rather than blundering in like I did so long ago. The game may still fail, but it won't because Marco didn't do his homework.


I'm not sure how to react.

I say, "give it a try". What's the worst thing that happens, you end up deciding this particular game is not for you?


I thought it was cool that Marco let me decide what it was like to be a paladin in the world, but I'm not sure what to expect. This is way different from what I've done before and I'm nervous. Have any of you had any experience with this kind of DM? What can I do to be a good player in this situation?

Suggesting the T-Rex skeleton is "being a good player". You have added dinosaurs to the world. Now, what Marco does with them will be interesting to see. (for example: Are they still around? Are they still a threat? Do tribes of dinosaur-riding halfling warriors exist? Who knows? Marco left session 0 with an interesting idea that he gets to flesh out ... so I think that you have made him happy, already.)

There is more in-depth discussion about what "session 0" is all about out on the web. I would suggest you read this, from reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/601awb/session0_topic_checklist_and_guide/) ... I find the advice starting at the section labelled "Player, Behavior, Game Behavior & DM Expectations" worth re-reading at times. You may find better than I did, though.

Grek
2020-04-19, 05:07 AM
My first DM was just like this and she did a great job. I see no red flags here, play ball. Or D&D, as the case may be.

johnbragg
2020-04-19, 08:44 AM
The GM is asking you what kind of game you would like to play, trying to make it more fun by accomodating your and everyones' preferences. How can you be angry about that?

He's more uncomfortable and confused and surprised than angry. HE's not used to it -- read the OP, he's previously done mostly published campaigns and modules. Part of him feels like the DM didnt do his job because DM didn't come to the session with a campaign ready to go.

Maglubiyet
2020-04-19, 09:51 AM
Someone who is interested to create the kind of game you want to play. Sounds like a great DM!

Altheus
2020-04-19, 10:24 AM
I think you got surprised by having creative control over your game environment

I did this when I was running Dungeon World and people were not happy when I asked them to describe the political structure prevalent in the land. (In fairness, I should have warned my players that this was coming, giving them time to come up with the answers).

I then started asking questions about their characters, an example conversation was You're playing a salamander, tell me about them, are Salamanders many or few? Where do they live? Are they collected together or dispersed?

If you're not expecting the questions it can be quite jarring, several people said as much but, once they got used to the idea were ok with it.

As a GM it is nice that I don't have to do all of the creative heavy lifting, defining cultures and so forth. The idea has become infectious in my group, allowing me to create a dwarf pc who has come from a city that culturally resembles renaissance venice.

Continental Op
2020-04-19, 01:31 PM
I would echo most of the responses here by saying this is a typical "session zero" to figure out what type or style of game to run. I would suggest you bring this up with your DM, and say you are used to being a player in games using published adventures (it sounds like). This might really help your DM. The whole point is to share input to make sure everyone has fun. Good luck!

kyoryu
2020-04-19, 04:34 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to say "typical" it's decidedly not typical for a lot of games.

But it's also not really that weird overall. it's just a different style.

Confusedbugbear
2020-04-19, 06:26 PM
Hey all, poster an update up top. TL:DR is that we got a very interesting setting and I'm glad I stayed on. Might try a different class, but so far my paladin fits in well.

Does anyone know anything about something called E6? Marco mentioned that we probably wouldn't get that far anyway, but it seems like the game would have a level cap or something? He explained that even the most powerful hero in the game would still be threatened by Level 2s like us, which sounds cool for a game that we're only playing for a 6-8 sessions.

Segev
2020-04-19, 06:36 PM
Hey all, poster an update up top. TL:DR is that we got a very interesting setting and I'm glad I stayed on. Might try a different class, but so far my paladin fits in well.

Does anyone know anything about something called E6? Marco mentioned that we probably wouldn't get that far anyway, but it seems like the game would have a level cap or something? He explained that even the most powerful hero in the game would still be threatened by Level 2s like us, which sounds cool for a game that we're only playing for a 6-8 sessions.

"E6" is short for "Epic at level 6." It basically means that nobody gains levels past level 6, instead advancing by gaining feats periodically. I'm not a fan, myself, but many people greatly enjoy it. The idea is to stick to a particular style of play that the first six levels supports well.

Lvl 2 Expert
2020-04-20, 12:22 AM
"E6" is short for "Epic at level 6." It basically means that nobody gains levels past level 6, instead advancing by gaining feats periodically. I'm not a fan, myself, but many people greatly enjoy it. The idea is to stick to a particular style of play that the first six levels supports well.

It's meant to evoke more of a classic heroic to epic fantasy feel, somewhere between roughly the Arthurian legends and Lord of the Rings with extra Gandalfs.

It's also a point at which the dnd 3.5 classes are relatively well balanced.

Nice to hear you enjoyed yourself!

kyoryu
2020-04-20, 01:00 PM
"E6" is short for "Epic at level 6." It basically means that nobody gains levels past level 6, instead advancing by gaining feats periodically. I'm not a fan, myself, but many people greatly enjoy it. The idea is to stick to a particular style of play that the first six levels supports well.

It's basically a way to play a more gritty, non-superheroic game using 3.x. Whether that's a good thing or not is entirely dependent on how much you like the "fantasy superhero" thing that 3.x tends to migrate to at mid-high levels. It's really good for "I want to use 3.x rules, but I also want gritty fantasy".

johnbragg
2020-04-20, 02:39 PM
E6 means that the power curve is limited. The mightiest warrior still can't win 100-on-1 fights, the mightiest caster cannot level cities with a wave of his hand. It stops one of the big problems of 3.5, where everything starts to boil down to the casters playing chess with their countermeasures.

And this sort of thing is where 3X is very strong. There are hundreds of 3.5 and PAthfinder splatbooks out there, plus d20 OGL stuff that isn't exactly 3.5 compatible, but is kind-of-convertible. So you can kludge together a game with a unicorn-riding paladin, a mech-riding artificer and a catfolk ninja.