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jjordan
2020-04-18, 10:35 PM
What if the method for determining critical hits was not a natural 20 but instead having to exceed the target AC by a certain number? For the sake of argument lets say exceeding the target AC by 10 or more points results in a critical hit.

JNAProductions
2020-04-18, 10:38 PM
What if the method for determining critical hits was not a natural 20 but instead having to exceed the target AC by a certain number? For the sake of argument lets say exceeding the target AC by 10 or more points results in a critical hit.

Makes crits less likely against powerful foes, more likely against chaff.

Assuming no +X magic items, you'd have the same crit against someone with an AC of X at levels Y.



Level
AC


1
15


5
17


11
19


17
21



It also means high AC foes are straight-up immune to crits, unless this is in ADDITION to, instead of a replacement.

A Heavy-Armored Fighter is immune to crits from an attack stat 16 PC at level one.
Still immune at level five, assuming they got full plate.
It's not till level eight, when you hit 20 in your main stat, that a Heavy-Armor user is vulnerable to crits from an equal level PC.

jjordan
2020-04-19, 12:59 PM
Armor works.

I like the idea from that standpoint. I worry about depriving players of the standard criticals and the regular bump in positive feedback that gives them.

JNAProductions
2020-04-19, 01:07 PM
Armor works.

I like the idea from that standpoint. I worry about depriving players of the standard criticals and the regular bump in positive feedback that gives them.

Armor already works.

There's also the counterpoint issue-hit bonuses scale more than AC. AC pretty much caps at 21 for most PCs (Full Plate, Shield, Defensive Fighting Style) and in practice, I rarely see anyone go that defensive. 15-18 is a more common range.

Tarrasque has a +19 to-hit
Ancient Red Dragon has +17
Kraken has +17 as well

Against AC 18, they need a 9 (Tarrasque) or 11 (Kraken/Dragon) to crit.
Even against 21 (+3 Full Plate on a two-hander, or fully geared up non-magical) that's only a 12/14 needed.

Even armed to the gills with magic items (+3 shield, +3 full plate) your AC only hits 27, meaning that while Dragons and Krakens need a 20 still to crit, the Tarrasque has triple the threat range. And how often do you see PCs with +3 Full Plate, +3 Shield, and the Defensive Fighting Style?

Segev
2020-04-19, 02:31 PM
Crit mechanics in 5e are already much more generous to the crit-hitting character than in 3e. There's no confirmation roll. The Champion Fighter has a flat 10% chance to crit every time he swings. Everyone else has a 5% chance. This isn't very bad.

What problem are you trying to solve with this mechanical change?

Maat Mons
2020-04-19, 05:18 PM
Back in 3.5, I experimented with a system that was a cross between this and a suped-up Power Attack.

Instead of having critical hits, and instead of having the Power Attack feat, your damage roll gained a bonus equal to the amount by which your attack roll exceeded the target's AC (or twice that value, for a two-handed weapon). The extra damage was capped at your Base Attack Bonus (or twice that, for a two-handed weapon). And any effect that auto-hit, regardless of AC (like rolling a natural 20) gave you your capped-out bonus to damage.

Partly, I was trying to replace critical hits with a less random, more skill based system. Partly, I was trying to replace Power Attack with something that felt less like gambling.

jjordan
2020-04-19, 05:49 PM
Crit mechanics in 5e are already much more generous to the crit-hitting character than in 3e. There's no confirmation roll. The Champion Fighter has a flat 10% chance to crit every time he swings. Everyone else has a 5% chance. This isn't very bad.

What problem are you trying to solve with this mechanical change?
It's not a problem. The current system of critical hits works just fine, mechanically. It bugs me that it's not at all tied to skill (adamantine weapons, I'm looking at you) and I was considering this as a more skill-based option.

JNAProductions has already pointed out ways this won't work with the game balance/mechanics. Which is a bummer.

Segev
2020-04-19, 06:34 PM
It's not a problem. The current system of critical hits works just fine, mechanically. It bugs me that it's not at all tied to skill (adamantine weapons, I'm looking at you) and I was considering this as a more skill-based option.

JNAProductions has already pointed out ways this won't work with the game balance/mechanics. Which is a bummer.

What about adamantine weapons makes you think "should be tied to a skill?" I'm missing something here, I think.

It sounds like your hope was to have crits crop up more often the higher your "combat skill" is, right?

Grod_The_Giant
2020-04-19, 08:25 PM
It's not a problem. The current system of critical hits works just fine, mechanically. It bugs me that it's not at all tied to skill (adamantine weapons, I'm looking at you) and I was considering this as a more skill-based option.
It's sort of tied to skill-- a more skilled fighter will attack more often, so they'll crit more often.

jjordan
2020-04-19, 10:05 PM
What about adamantine weapons makes you think "should be tied to a skill?" I'm missing something here, I think.

It sounds like your hope was to have crits crop up more often the higher your "combat skill" is, right?
Adamantine weapons was a little joke since they always do critical damage when used against objects.

I wanted crits to be tied more closely to combat skill rather than the 5% chance that everyone gets. Grod points out that extra attacks (aka greater combat skill) is how the system works with that. And JNAProductions points out that the system doesn't work with my mod. Both excellent points.

SpawnOfMorbo
2020-04-19, 11:07 PM
What if the method for determining critical hits was not a natural 20 but instead having to exceed the target AC by a certain number? For the sake of argument lets say exceeding the target AC by 10 or more points results in a critical hit.

I think this would get messy based on previous posts.

I see this as the type of rule a DM would make because a monster got one or two shot by crits and now thinks crits should be harder to pull off.

RedWarlock
2020-04-19, 11:49 PM
I mean, this is how Pathfinder 2e handles crits, so it's not entirely alien. They also use a much wider number-range, though. 10 over the base AC/DC is a critical. Maybe in a 5e context, redefine that as 5 over base difficulty?

kaervaak
2020-05-08, 04:46 PM
What if it was more like a called-shot. If you call the shot, take a -10 to hit and still hit, it's an automatic crit. Could be an interesting replacement for great weapon fighting's and sharp-shooter's -5 to hit +10 damage.