Mobile vs War Caster vs ASI

[Anthiondel]

I'm planning a swords bard, stats: 10, 16, 14, 8, 10, 16 after racial adjustments.

We start at lvl3 and get a free feat at lvl1.

The concept is a very movile gish, who basically performs like a swashbuckler, but with fullcaster progresion instead of sneak attack. Will likely take twf style, though i'm considering a dip in hexblade to get prof in shields and go dueling.

Which feat is better at lvl1? Mobile to get the desired mobility or war caster to both get advantage on concentration saves + be able to perform somatic spells while either dual wielding or sword/boarding.

Also, at lvl4, what would you suggest? ASI to increase either dex (twf) or cha (sword/board) or get the feat i won't take at lvl1?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

1)
Are you going to use mobile?

2)
Do you think you will be hit enough to need war caster for consentration?

3)
Do you think you won't have a free hand an will need it for casting?

DEX ASI will be good for getting hit less(less relevant if you get war caster) and hit more with your weapons but CHA ASI will make your spells more potent. Which are you going to use more?

[Zhorn]

If you plan to hit'n'run as a go-to tactic, mobile will serve you very well.

Warcaster is a personal preference of mine when it comes to casters in general, and it would be the feat I'd pick.
Not just for concentration advantage and somatic components, but also for spells in place of opportunity attacks. If you're going to do that hexblade dip, this opens you up for booming blade as your go to reaction attack, so there's some decent scaling with character level going there.

Furthermore; again with the hexblade dip, use the ASI on CHA. Hex Warrior will make CHA your melee stat, it's already your spell casting stat, (but you already know this), and with the gained profficiency in medium armor, that 16 in DEX is the most you'll need for AC, or swap it down to the 14 (+2) if you don't plan on ever taking Medium Armor Master to make full use of that 16 (+3).

[Expired]

I'm planning a swords bard, stats: 10, 16, 14, 8, 10, 16 after racial adjustments.

We start at lvl3 and get a free feat at lvl1.

The concept is a very movile gish, who basically performs like a swashbuckler, but with fullcaster progresion instead of sneak attack. Will likely take twf style, though i'm considering a dip in hexblade to get prof in shields and go dueling.

Which feat is better at lvl1? Mobile to get the desired mobility or war caster to both get advantage on concentration saves + be able to perform somatic spells while either dual wielding or sword/boarding.

Also, at lvl4, what would you suggest? ASI to increase either dex (twf) or cha (sword/board) or get the feat i won't take at lvl1?

If you plan to hit'n'run as a go-to tactic, mobile will serve you very well.

Warcaster is a personal preference of mine when it comes to casters in general, and it would be the feat I'd pick.
Not just for concentration advantage and somatic components, but also for spells in place of opportunity attacks. If you're going to do that hexblade dip, this opens you up for booming blade as your go to reaction attack, so there's some decent scaling with character level going there.

Furthermore; again with the hexblade dip, use the ASI on CHA. Hex Warrior will make CHA your melee stat, it's already your spell casting stat, (but you already know this), and with the gained profficiency in medium armor, that 16 in DEX is the most you'll need for AC, or swap it down to the 14 (+2) if you don't plan on ever taking Medium Armor Master to make full use of that 16 (+3).
(Emphasis mine).

I cannot agree more. If, and only if, you dip Hexblade Warlock, you should do as Zhorn suggested and don medium armor but take 14 Dex instead of 16 and switch it with Con so you have 14 Dex and 16 Con—Medium Armor Master is not a good feat for you because you don't need Str and don't have an uneven Dex. Even for TWF, Hex Warrior will allow you to use your Cha score and will make you SAD.

As for Mobile, you should not take it at level 1 and you should focus on maxing your Cha as soon as possible because it will improve your attack rolls, damage rolls, and spell save DCs. I'd take War Caster as your free feat because you will be concentrating on spells while still being within range of being attacked.

If you don't plan on concentrating on spells while in melee range, you can choose Mobile at level 1. Good alternatives are Lucky (to negate the enemy's nat 20's) and Resilient: Wisdom (You need an odd wis score to maximize the benefit from this, though).

[Zetakya]

war caster to both get advantage on concentration saves + be able to perform somatic spells while either dual wielding or sword/boarding.



3)
Do you think you won't have a free hand an will need it for casting?


Reminder: You don't need a free hand to perform Somatic Components as a Swords Bard, because a Swords Bard can use any Simple or Martial Melee Weapons they are proficient with as an Arcane Focus, and any Spellcaster can perform Somatic Components with the same hand as they are using to hold an Arcane Focus.

[Anthiondel]

Reminder: You don't need a free hand to perform Somatic Components as a Swords Bard, because a Swords Bard can use any Simple or Martial Melee Weapons they are proficient with as an Arcane Focus, and any Spellcaster can perform Somatic Components with the same hand as they are using to hold an Arcane Focus.

Not really, the focus works as the "material component" (of non cost, no consumable components, that is) and in case of spells that have somatic and material components the focus can be in the same hand used to "manipulate" the material components (focus in this case). However, in spells with somatic components and no material components the focus is of no use. You either need a free hand (not my case due to either twf or sword/board) or have the warcaster feat.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Reminder: You don't need a free hand to perform Somatic Components as a Swords Bard, because a Swords Bard can use any Simple or Martial Melee Weapons they are proficient with as an Arcane Focus, and any Spellcaster can perform Somatic Components with the same hand as they are using to hold an Arcane Focus.

Totally forgot about this part about the sword bard.
So I guess that the war caster feat is relevant her only if the OP is going to use consentration spells as he is open to attack in a situation he want to use a spell and not a weapon for his opportunity attacks.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm planning a swords bard, stats: 10, 16, 14, 8, 10, 16 after racial adjustments.

We start at lvl3 and get a free feat at lvl1.

The concept is a very movile gish, who basically performs like a swashbuckler, but with fullcaster progresion instead of sneak attack. Will likely take twf style, though i'm considering a dip in hexblade to get prof in shields and go dueling.

Which feat is better at lvl1? Mobile to get the desired mobility or war caster to both get advantage on concentration saves + be able to perform somatic spells while either dual wielding or sword/boarding.

Also, at lvl4, what would you suggest? ASI to increase either dex (twf) or cha (sword/board) or get the feat i won't take at lvl1? Neat idea: who else is in your party, in terms of what other PCs are you working with?

[Guy Lombard-O]

I'm playing a bard (also destined for Swords at 3) and I'm also pondering which feat to take at 4th (ignoring ASI for the moment).

However, the ones I'm weighing are Mobile, Sharpshooter and Dual Wielder. The most powerful one is obviously Sharpshooter, since it's probably the most powerful feat out there. Mobile is an awesome feat, great for both the extra speed and avoiding opp attacks. But the extra speed and defensive bonus from the Defensive Flourish seems like it will fill part of that need already (at the cost of a resource, of course), so I'm not sure about that one. (Also, mine's a tabaxi for extra burst-speed). The least optimal I'm looking at is probably Dual Wielder. But if you're going TWF FS (as I plan to), it'll come in handy when switching from range to melee combat (my DM has lately become a stickler about drawing/sheathing 2 weapons as free action), and the extra +1 AC wouldn't hurt.

I'm avoiding War Caster because I generally prefer Res: Con (which I'll take somewhere down the line) for saves, and because swords' weapon focus proficiency has the material component already covered. Also, the only Opp Attack/reaction-creating spell I want (Dissonant Whispers) is Verbal only. For the rest, I'll just have to sheath the second weapon as a free action and draw it next round, but honestly there aren't a lot of good Somatic combat spells with no Material component. The whole Booming Blade opp attack is admittedly nice, but I'm taking Swords because it's a decent-ish gish when played single class, and I won't have room for a feat to pick up BB until much later level.

Edited for clarity

[Zetakya]

Not really, the focus works as the "material component" (of non cost, no consumable components, that is) and in case of spells that have somatic and material components the focus can be in the same hand used to "manipulate" the material components (focus in this case). However, in spells with somatic components and no material components the focus is of no use. You either need a free hand (not my case due to either twf or sword/board) or have the warcaster feat.

I don't believe that's true. I'm away from books right now, but the wording is something along the lines of "You can perform somatic components with a hand that is holding a spellcasting focus".

There's no requirement for the spellcasting focus to be necessary as a material component for the caster to make somatic gestures with it in hand.

[Warlush]

Not really, the focus works as the "material component" (of non cost, no consumable components, that is) and in case of spells that have somatic and material components the focus can be in the same hand used to "manipulate" the material components (focus in this case). However, in spells with somatic components and no material components the focus is of no use. You either need a free hand (not my case due to either twf or sword/board) or have the warcaster feat.

You can also stow your off hand weapon, cast the spell, and on your following turn draw your weapon back out.

[Expired]

You can also stow your off hand weapon, cast the spell, and on your following turn draw your weapon back out.
Or better still, drop your off-hand weapon, cast a spell, and then use your free object interaction to pick it back up.

[BloodBrandy]

Mobile had three parts. The speed boost is decent, though mostly just a good side thing. The main benefits are ignoring the effect of difficult terrain when you dash, and not needing to worry about opportunity attacks from creatures you make and attack roll on. The first one I honestly haven't seen much of an issue with myself, but it's hinged on if you use your action to dash, which could be a problem. The third one is the main benefit, seeing as you will be able to attack two enemies eventually and not worry on opportunity attacks. This feat is really more for if you are in the thick of things, as it is one of the few ways to not provoke an opportunity attack from someone with the Sentinel feat.

Warcaster has three parts. You can make somatic components for your spells when your hands are full, which matters mostly depending on your spell list. As you are a swords bard you can use your weapon as a focus, so if a spell has a non-cost/non-consumed material component, this feature doesn't matter. If the spell has no material component, then you would need to stow your weapon and take it back out. This also effects the second part, You can use a spell as an attack of opportunity, but only if the spell only effects the one target. Again, this is something that depends heavily on your spell list. Bards don't have a whole lot of spells of their own that would do damage in this situation, but you could possibly use something like Hideous Laughter to stop the enemy from fleeing (Though that means it has a chance to make the save when you cast it and again at the end of it's turn, but even if it makes the second one, it's still prone), but as far as damage spells go, you don't have a whole tonne of choices. Third one is advantage on saving throws to maintain a spell. Again, dependent quite a bit on your spell list choices, and even with advantage, as a Swords bard you may be taking quite a few hits, this means both it will help you keep focus, but you are also in a situation where you have a lot of chances to fail.

[Christian]

I don't believe that's true. I'm away from books right now, but the wording is something along the lines of "You can perform somatic components with a hand that is holding a spellcasting focus".

There's no requirement for the spellcasting focus to be necessary as a material component for the caster to make somatic gestures with it in hand.


If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures ... A spellcaster must have at least one hand free to access these [material] components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to to perform somatic components.

So, nothing in the somatic component description lets you cast a spell without a hand free. The exception is in the material component rule, where it says of spells with both somatic and material components, you can use the same hand to provide the somatic component as you use to manipulate the material component. But this dispensation aids you not at all when the spell has no material component.

[Anthiondel]

Neat idea: who else is in your party, in terms of what other PCs are you working with?

So far, a ranger, either a gloom stalker going twf or a hunter archer. Still waiting for two more to confirm.

[Reynaerde]

Warcaster is a personal preference of mine when it comes to casters in general, and it would be the feat I'd pick. Not just for concentration advantage and somatic components, but also for spells in place of opportunity attacks. If you're going to do that hexblade dip, this opens you up for booming blade as your go to reaction attack, so there's some decent scaling with character level going there.This is what makes war caster such a great feat for bards with a level of hexblade: stand next to a melee focused enemy, cast dissonant whispers to trigger opportunity attacks (also makes your rogue pal VERY happy), cast booming blade for a nice and powerful attack (especially at higher levels) and give that opponent the choice between either walking back and getting thunder damage or stay away and be less effective. That's a lot of damage and control for a first level spell!


I'm avoiding War Caster because I generally prefer Res: Con (which I'll take somewhere down the line) for saves, and because swords' weapon focus proficiency has the material component already covered. Also, the only reaction spell I want (Dissonant Whispers) is Verbal only.In my opinion, dissonant whispers is the reason why I would never take res:con over war caster for a bard. There is so much fun stuff you can do with the "opportunity spell" that dissonant whispers triggers if you have war caster. It's not just about booming blade. Think of dissonant whispers + phantasmal force, for example. Have a look at my sig for some other fun combos...