Time issues

[StickMan]

OK if this has only been one day there, but a quarter year in the real world then wouldn't Roy's mom have only been there in there time like a few days and she is already hooking up with some guy. Also they said you had to be up there for a few weeks before you got a house. I'm just trying to clear this up a bit for my self. I'm sure there is some logical explanation I can't think of.

[monty]

My assumption would be that there is no definite day and night; Roy may have just not realized how much time he spent waiting to be judged, climbing the mountain, etc. As far as I know, time in Celestia passes at the same rate as the Material Plane.

[SPoD]

I'm sure it will be explained in 2-3 days in the next strip, so you probably should't spend too much energy worrying about it.

It's not necessarily that time is passing at a different rate, anyway. It could be that Roy got so wrapped up in the excitement of Heaven that he failed to notice how much time was passing. It's not like he gets hungry or needs to sleep or anything, and it's been daylight since he got here.

[MCerberus]

Perception of how time passes is an important thing to consider. When you're having fun an hour or so passes like minutes. Imagine that for a place that just screams out ultimate joy (not to be confused with happiness).

[newcresty]

but then agian, 3 month is too much time too just "pass out" from roy's perception

jet lag? or maybe swift-plane lag?

[NikkTheTrick]

Perception of how time passes is an important thing to consider. When you're having fun an hour or so passes like minutes.
Not to mention the fact that there is nothing to indicate time passing. No night/day cycle, no tiredness, no regular meals, no sleep...

[kirbsys]

I'd bet there was some sort of time difference that he never noticed between some part of this. Or maybe Roy has entered into the gray area known only as... the Twilight Zone!

[Bluelantern]

If time is the same in Celestia, my theory is that it takes sometime for a soul to reach the plane during the moutain climbing.

Anyway, is he heading toward what?

[Spiky]

I think it's the fishing. Now that's a time waster. I'm guessing we just saw about 80 of those days in #498.

[TDG]

There have been many experiments regarding the body's internal clock. People have been placed in constant conditions (constant light levels, heat, no interaction, no external cues of any sort) and watched.

As people slowly adjusted to the new conditions, they found that the cycle people were using was actually around 25 hours, not 24 as in normal conditions. As a result, people slowly became out of sync with the outside world, and were often awake and fully active in the wee hours of the morning, and sleeping during the day. None of the subjects realised that they were being active for slightly longer and were so off-kilter.

No imagine the scenario, but take away the internal cues the body has - tiredness, hunger etc - it wouldn't be hard for somebody to lose track of time pretty quickly. Roy may think he's only been there for a day or two, but with nothing telling him otherwise, its not too hard to imagine it taking longer.

Heck, the mountain climbing probably took days or weeks even - if it only took an hour or so, there'd be a lot of enlightened amateur mountaineers at the top.

[Anteros]

A day or two sure, but three months? There would have to be something severely mentally wrong with someone to not notice that you just played blocks with your little brother for three months instead of an hour or two, even without any external or internal signals.

There is definately some type of time distortion going on.

[GSFB]

It's entirely possible that time is not only on a different scale, but also that it isn't constant. Roy could have been through different periods of sped-up time and not been aware, because time has no meaning when you are in a place of eternity.

[Rad]

How long ago did Roy die? I mean, how long is it since the strip where Roy died was published? It sounds about that time to me :smallsmile:

[dish]

That ^ (Rad) is a very intriguing idea.

So it could be something to do with the fourth wall. Celestia follows 'real world' time not 'game time'?

[Tordek]

Time passes differently for different people in a timeless, entirely subjective realm. I've got no problem with it.

I remember when I went fishing with my grandpa. That was fun.

[The Extinguisher]

If there's absolutely nothing to indicate time, then would you notice it at all. It's day all the time, you don't get tired, you eat when your bored, you sleep when your bored, you build giant block structures, defeat evil parties and fish with your grandpa. It wouldn't be that hard to lose track of time. I find time slipping by quickly in the regular day. I'd never be able to get time in a place with no biological or mechanical clocks and routines.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were fishing for a good month or two.

[Clucky]

Its called making a self-referential joke guys.

Within the strip itself, Roy died a day ago. But the strip where he died was actually over three months ago, so by that count he has been dead 100 days and counting. Rad is totally right here.

edit: Actually, after looking back at it, Roys been dead for way over 3 months. So maybe I is wrong.

[eof]

According to the Manual of the Planes, Celestia has the "normal time" trait. So "physically," time would pass at the same rate as on the Prime. (Although there's obviously nothing stopping the Giant from changing that for the OotS universe. I personally run a few campaigns where the Outer Planes work significantly differently than how canon dictates.)

Rad's idea sounds interesting (and I don't see anything spoilerific about it). However, Roy died right at the end in #443. According to my settings, that strip's discussion thread was posted on April 23rd. That's a little more than six months ago (about 185 days, give or take some hours). So no, not without adjusting for the Giant's hiatus and other "missing" stips, at least.

In general, I agree with the sentiment that Roy just hasn't been paying attention to the passage of time. Simply put, he's been enjoying himself too much to notice. Like a kid in... well, like a kid in a playground. :smallbiggrin:

[Kaelaroth]

Time passes differently for different people in a timeless, entirely subjective realm. I've got no problem with it.

I remember when I went fishing with my grandpa. That was fun.

You enjoyed it? I spent most of my time (when fishing with older relatives) getting stone-bored, then have a near-psychotic breakdown and chasing a rather fat trout down the river brandishing a net and projectile weaponry. :smallfurious:

But, I beleive Rad's idea makes interesting discussion...

[factotum]

I'm in the camp that thinks it was the climb up the mountain that took the time--Roy complained that it was "taking forever" back in #493.

[MoelVermillion]

Personally i think its like Horace said earlier, everything is based on belief one way or another. Roy believes hes been dead for 12 hours so the time in Celestia for him has been as though it was 12 hours.

[Dervag]

There have been many experiments regarding the body's internal clock. People have been placed in constant conditions (constant light levels, heat, no interaction, no external cues of any sort) and watched.

As people slowly adjusted to the new conditions, they found that the cycle people were using was actually around 25 hours, not 24 as in normal conditions. As a result, people slowly became out of sync with the outside world, and were often awake and fully active in the wee hours of the morning, and sleeping during the day. None of the subjects realised that they were being active for slightly longer and were so off-kilter.

No imagine the scenario, but take away the internal cues the body has - tiredness, hunger etc - it wouldn't be hard for somebody to lose track of time pretty quickly. Roy may think he's only been there for a day or two, but with nothing telling him otherwise, its not too hard to imagine it taking longer.

Heck, the mountain climbing probably took days or weeks even - if it only took an hour or so, there'd be a lot of enlightened amateur mountaineers at the top.I think climbing the mountain requires some level of symbolic readiness too.

For that matter, Roy doesn't even *have* a body to cue him on what time it is. It's not just a question of internal cues here. His 'body' on this plane is just the way he imagines himself, and the way he imagines himself probably remains the same over time.

[BobTheDog]

Rad's idea sounds interesting (and I don't see anything spoilerific about it). However, Roy died right at the end in #443. According to my settings, that strip's discussion thread was posted on April 23rd. That's a little more than six months ago (about 185 days, give or take some hours). So no, not without adjusting for the Giant's hiatus and other "missing" stips, at least.

If you put all strips that passed since Roy's death (#443) and the latest strip (#498) in a strict 3-comics-a-week schedule, you get a number around 130 days [(498-442)*7/3].

[Kreistor]

There's something else to consider here. Roy is his ideal version of himself. That ideal is anxiously waiting for the team to bring him back to continue his adventures. It may not be that time is moving faster in Celestia, but that Roy's desire to get back is so great the realm has accelerted time just for him.

[Lissou]

My guess is that Roy isn't used to Celestia yet.
1- there is no night
2- he doesn't get tired

And a lot happened, so he didn't have time to realise that. Several hours passed while he was waitiing, then his judgment probably took some more time, and then he climbed the mountain... we don't know for how long, really. Same applies for playing with his brother. His mother had time to talk to several people, and his grandfather had time to climb down. I'd say he played for at least a week.

He probably thought "wow, this day is neverending, but that's because it's so eventful". maybe it felt to him like a week but because the sun was still up, he was still perfectly awake and he hadn't been raised, he assumed it was still the same day. Note how he said "what a day!".
But time passed really fast. you know how sometimes you play a game for 20 hours and feel like you've just started, until you notice the sun is rising (and you didn't even realise it had ever set?). Well, that's about the same, really. If you can think 20 hours are only like 2 hours, you can think 3 months feel like a few days only.
And you can think that was feels like a few days is only one very eventful day.

So I don't really think time passes faster, or at least not that much faster. it's just that so many things happened, he didn't have time to realise time was passing.

[chibibar]

that is true. The sun each morning reset our internal clock (biological) because for some reason our body operates on a 25 hour clock (so I'm told) When we see the sun, we go by a normal day. Unlike Roy, we do get tire overtime and need rest, eat, and relax. Since Roy doesn't have to do any of these thing, to him (being recently died) did not know about the sun rising and falling (or lack of) so his internal clock is off. He still think this is all ONE day :)

[Sigbru]

When Sabine went to her plane, Nale did say something about her going just for some time... I have to check that

[The Bushranger]

When Sabine went to her plane, Nale did say something about her going just for some time... I have to check that

She was "gone for three hours" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0394.html). Either she's one very busy succubus, or time does run differently there...

[zanik221]

As Horace Greenhilt said, "everything 'round these parts is shaped by belief, one way or another."

Roy believes he has been in Celestia for a day, therefore, by his perception, he has been.

[TDG]

A day or two sure, but three months? There would have to be something severely mentally wrong with someone to not notice that you just played blocks with your little brother for three months instead of an hour or two, even without any external or internal signals.

There is definately some type of time distortion going on.

Don't be so sure - everything around you is constant and your "body" has lost all means to tell time. Roy was never told that he wouldn't notice the shift in time, so he wasn't prepared for it. To him, its probably just seemed like a really eventful day

[chibibar]

A day or two sure, but three months? There would have to be something severely mentally wrong with someone to not notice that you just played blocks with your little brother for three months instead of an hour or two, even without any external or internal signals.

There is definately some type of time distortion going on.

why? what are indication of time for you?

When you get hungry
When you get tired
When you are bored

Roy is constantly doing something that he miss and enjoy. He is playing with his little brother that he hasn't seen in ages. ALSO is not use to being dead yet. He mentally know that he doesn't need to eat, but his body didn't tell him (oh its time to eat) and thus he is probably measuring time that way. He does not tire, so he knows it is not "later in the day" and the sun is always out so that throws his normal time telling (i.e. it is night.. gotta rest etc etc)

It is like playing a really fun video game. I was sooooo into it. I wasn't hungry until much much later (12 hours later) and realize I was tired and look at the clock (again Roy doesn't have a watch) and wonder what happen to the time?

I don't think there is a time distortion :)

[Twilight Jack]

I had a rather interesting thought about it yesterday. Time runs at a normal pace in Celestia, but a soul's sense of time passing is altered somewhat, since the very concept of time is unimportant to the notion of eternity. No matter how many "attractions" Celestia has to offer, the crawl of time without end, moment by moment, could cause some souls to suffer boredom or even despair. That sort of thing is not conducive to Paradise, so the soul's perception of passing time is suppressed, so as not to stun supplicants with the weight of eternity stretching both forward and behind. Once a soul is used to it, they can focus and gain a pretty good sense of how much time has gone by between events, but if never consciously engaged, the sense of time passing is completely absent. Three and a half months went by, as Roy was unable to "feel" the passage of time and never paused to actively think of it, since he was expecting that he'd be resurrected by the very next day.

[David Argall]

Now a problem with the time passing without notice is that Gramps has a very precise knowledge of how long Roy has been in the Heavens. Time should be vague to him too. But if he knows 1 hour = 2 weeks or whatever, then he knows about how long Roy has been up there.

[geekyhedgehog]

But wouldn't he have noticed that Durkon was trying to raise him?

Or has he not been able to?

Confused.

[Twilight Jack]

Now a problem with the time passing without notice is that Gramps has a very precise knowledge of how long Roy has been in the Heavens. Time should be vague to him too. But if he knows 1 hour = 2 weeks or whatever, then he knows about how long Roy has been up there.

I addressed that in my post. Once a soul is used to it, it becomes a simple thing to think for a moment and know how much time has passed between any two events (i.e., Roy's arrival and Roy's remark about being raised tomorrow). It's just that the actual mental sensation of time passing in a passive sense is suppressed, so as to ensure that every moment spent in eternal Paradise is experienced as a complete and free moment, unburdened by the interminable expanse of time stretching out before and behind you.

[Tirian]

But wouldn't he have noticed that Durkon was trying to raise him?

Or has he not been able to?

Confused.

You probably won't be confused in the next strip or two. At the moment, it seems fair to guess that the rest of the Order has spent the past three months not being reunited.

[David Argall]

I addressed that in my post. Once a soul is used to it, it becomes a simple thing to think for a moment and know how much time has passed between any two events (i.e., Roy's arrival and Roy's remark about being raised tomorrow). It's just that the actual mental sensation of time passing in a passive sense is suppressed, so as to ensure that every moment spent in eternal Paradise is experienced as a complete and free moment, unburdened by the interminable expanse of time stretching out before and behind you.

The idea does not seem to make sense to me. If there is no obvious sign of the passage of time, the long term resident still is unable to measure time accurately. He is merely aware time seems to fly, and in our case, that Roy is widely incorrect in estimating how much time has passed. There is no reason for the long term soul to have this accurate sense of time. In fact, the goal of complete and free moment seems to be deliberately designed to defeat any such sense of time.

[The Extinguisher]

He is a higher level spirit. They're more "connected" to the heavens.

So it's likely he gets time because of it.