PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Epic Rules for Physical Stats



Black Dahaka
2020-04-20, 08:54 AM
I came up with these rules to give martial characters the true epic/mythic/superhero feeling I think they should have when compared with everything casters get to do. This is not for people who like being or want martials to only be the 'Guy at the Gym'

I know that this would require a massive re-balancing of everything (probably) or perhaps it could only apply to Player Characters?

Tell me what you think.

These rules ignore sizes.

Carrying: Your carrying capacity is equal to [Strength Score * 15 * (2^MOD)]. Your drag/pull/lifting capacity is double this number.

Long Jump: When you move 10 feet or more you cover a distance equal to [Strength Score * Strength Modifier] when you take the long jump action. This distance is halved when making a standing long jump.

High Jump: When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to [5 * Strength Modifier(or 1)] if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing high jump, you can jump only half that distance.

Shoving: Using the Attack action, you can make a Special melee Attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this Attack replaces one of them.
The target must be within your reach. Instead of Making an Attack roll, you make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you win the contest, you either knock the target prone or push it [5 * (Str Mod - size larger than you)] feet away from you.

Note: I also think that speed should in someway be affected by Str and Dex but I'm not sure how to go about it, any Ideas?

Grod_The_Giant
2020-04-20, 09:46 AM
Looks fun. I'd suggest adding a few new combat options that rely on high strength-- throwing a grappled foe, smashing the ground hard enough to knock people down, vaulting over foes, that sort of thing. Being able to lift a lot is cool, but active abilities are always more engaging.

(For inspiration, you might enjoy checking out the Myth class I made for 3.5? It's overpowered even for that system because it's meant to stand up to casters playing at full capacity, but you might get something out of it-- https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?307285-The-Myth-Tier-1-quot-Mundane-quot-Challenge-Accepted! )

For movement... Extra speed equal to 5*(Str mod + Dex mod), which can also be used as a climb or swim speed?

GabesHorn
2020-04-24, 04:40 AM
I love this kind of fix, this is exactly how I would like martials to be balanced. I like the idea of high tiered martials as martials that do martial things extremely well, like lifting or running or shooting an arrow many miles, rather than warping reality by the grace of a rocking Schwarzenegger physique.

Something inherent rather than feature based. Like with Grod's Myth, I love the attempt at a high tiered martial but it kinda just feels like refluffed caster to me and it's also not how I want to see martials rectify problems - using reskinned and rather fixed definitions of spells rather than having an inherent ability to do things (in the form of strength or dexterity or constitution) that with creativity can be leveraged to for example, plug a volcano with a giant heat resistant material or shove the frost giant dozens of feet into a binding trap, or be so strong that a pair of daggers can be used as climbing tools, stabbing them into the wall of a solid stony cliff face.

It has never made sense to me that fighters can gain equal power to casters on the fact of being really good at swinging a weapon. Nowhere in nerd lore but gimpy meme characters like Karate Kid does skill equalize to being able to actually warp reality or lob meteors at will. Looking at inspirations of high level martials from media its clear high level martial is more or less tied to the fact that a higher level matches up with more intrinsic strength, speed, durability etcetera.

Thor isn't just godlike because of his hammer wielding ability, he's godlike because he can lift serpents that can coil around planets, or that Spiderman is as strong as he is because he is genuinely seriously superhuman

At the same time, there are flaws with this system specifically. For example the exponential carrying capacity would suggest that people are unable to carry anything below 12 strength? Also 20 of a stat has always represented the pinnacle of human ability. I always assumed 21+ was the beginning of superhuman, so 20 strength allowing people to benchpress 9600 pounds seems a bit off for me. Just some math fixes could be nice.

Also, it doesn't make too much sense with how little ability scores progress even over 20 levels. So at level 1 the fighter is already superhumanly strong and can lift thousands of pounds, and 20 levels he can not do much more than that?

I love how its exponential though for sure, makes more mathematical sense. Maybe a way to allow the physical stat progression of martials to scale up further and further is to add additional physical stat increases to martials? Perhaps the Fighter could get an extra +2 to divide amongst STR, DEX and CON stats every two levels or so. And similar additions to other martial classes, just a thought.

I also like as Grod suggested, additional combat options where the potency keys off of these physical stats, but I actually think the existing combat options could work nicely with a system like yours. Or maybe even the suggestion of additional physical stat improvements would automatically improve those, as they already key off of ability modifier like Overrun or Bullrush with strength, or Sunder off attack rolls?

GabesHorn
2020-04-24, 04:43 AM
Looks fun. I'd suggest adding a few new combat options that rely on high strength-- throwing a grappled foe, smashing the ground hard enough to knock people down, vaulting over foes, that sort of thing. Being able to lift a lot is cool, but active abilities are always more engaging.

(For inspiration, you might enjoy checking out the Myth class I made for 3.5? It's overpowered even for that system because it's meant to stand up to casters playing at full capacity, but you might get something out of it-- https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?307285-The-Myth-Tier-1-quot-Mundane-quot-Challenge-Accepted! )

For movement... Extra speed equal to 5*(Str mod + Dex mod), which can also be used as a climb or swim speed?


I also really like that idea for extra speed. Both having very powerful legs and having a more nimble, faster acting nervous system could lead to improved speed, and mobility being as important as it is Grod's idea could stop martials from being boxed into high strength stats

Yakk
2020-04-24, 08:38 AM
Carrying: Your carrying capacity is equal to [Strength Score * 15 * (Str mod + Con mod (min 1 for sum))]. Your drag/pull/lifting capacity is double this number.

Example: 20 strength 16 con character can carry 300*(5+3) = 2400 lbs.

Long Jump: When you move 10 feet or more you cover a distance equal to [Strength Score * (Strength+Dex Modifier, min 1)]/2 when you take the long jump action. This distance is halved when making a standing long jump.

Example 16 str 14 dex character can jump 16*(3+2)/2 = 40 feet, or 20 feet standing long jump

High Jump: When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 1+[((1+Strength Modifier) * (1+Dex modifier))]/2 if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing high jump, you can jump only half that distance.

Example: 12 strength 18 dex rogue jumps 1' + ((1+1)*(4+1))/2 = 6' into the air.

Shoving: Using the Attack action, you can make a Special melee Attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this Attack replaces one of them.

The target must be within your reach.

Instead of Making an Attack roll, you make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use).
If you win the contest, you push it up to [5 * (Str Mod - size larger than you)] feet away from you. If you can push it at least 5', you can knock it prone; you can even knock it prone without pushing it.

---

Carrying capacity is Str+Con, jumping is Str+Dex here. Str is more important in both, but the other physical stat matters as well.

Str+Dex in particular is often under represented in 5e, as both are attack stats; if you have both high, you get insane jumping distances. If you dump dex, your long jumps aren't as far.

A 20 str/14 dex medium armor fighter has 70' long jump -- 175% the jumping distance of a 20 str/8 dex heavy armor build, who has 40'.

A 10 str/10 dex character can long jump 5'.

Grod_The_Giant
2020-04-24, 02:19 PM
I completely forgot last time, but if you're willing to look at non-D&D sources... Exalted. Just, everything about Exalted. The whole point of the system is playing a badass who's "just that good" at whatever you want, with the dial turned all the way up to 12 and broken off.

Want to be strong? Take the Charms and you can toss elephants around. Want to be good at disguises? You can go so deep undercover that your disguised identity has its own skills. Want to be a warlord? Here, you can turn peasants into elite soldiers in like a week. Riding? How 'bout being able to ride a horse at full speed down a tightrope? Fighting? There's a Charm that literally lets you respond to magical attacks by punching the lightning bolt, wrapping around your fist and beating the caster to death with it.

It's a good time, is what I'm saying. Crunchy as ****, occasionally bloated with dice tricks that do nothing but inflate your numbers, and with a combat engine that starts to break down when you've got more than three or four guys on the field, but a damn good time.

JNAProductions
2020-04-24, 03:03 PM
I completely forgot last time, but if you're willing to look at non-D&D sources... Exalted. Just, everything about Exalted. The whole point of the system is playing a badass who's "just that good" at whatever you want, with the dial turned all the way up to 12 and broken off.

Want to be strong? Take the Charms and you can toss elephants around. Want to be good at disguises? You can go so deep undercover that your disguised identity has its own skills. Want to be a warlord? Here, you can turn peasants into elite soldiers in like a week. Riding? How 'bout being able to ride a horse at full speed down a tightrope? Fighting? There's a Charm that literally lets you respond to magical attacks by punching the lightning bolt, wrapping around your fist and beating the caster to death with it.

It's a good time, is what I'm saying. Crunchy as ****, occasionally bloated with dice tricks that do nothing but inflate your numbers, and with a combat engine that starts to break down when you've got more than three or four guys on the field, but a damn good time.

Where can one get Exalted? Because I like the sound of that.

Dual-wield the rainbow.
Taste the rainbow. :P

Grod_The_Giant
2020-04-24, 03:54 PM
Where can one get Exalted? Because I like the sound of that.

Dual-wield the rainbow.
Taste the rainbow. :P
The current edition (and probably the older ones) are available on DriveThuRPG. Highly recommended for one or two player games with mechanics junkies; not recommended for full sized groups unless the game is significantly low combat.