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2020-04-20, 10:44 AM
Hello people!
In my game is a player with a level 7 elephant animal companion, which has the universal monster ability "trample".
Trample (Ex) As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability can attempt to overrun any creature that is at least one size category Smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a –4 penalty. If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can attempt to avoid the trampling creature and receive a Reflex save to take half damage. The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.
Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. If your overrun attempt fails, you stop in the space directly in front of the opponent, or the nearest open space in front of the creature if there are other creatures occupying that space.
When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal. If your maneuver is successful, you move through the target’s space. If your attack exceeds your opponent’s CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target’s space and the target is knocked prone. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has.
There are a few things unclear about when or how many Attacks of Opportunity can be made, and what the meaning of "foregoing" an AoO is.
Elemental Rule Questions:
0.a) Does foregoing an AoO have the same meaning as expending it? My understanding is no, but i'd like a confirmation.
0.b) Does being grappled, which prevents the use of AoO's, also prevent foregoing the AoO?
0.c) Does not threatening any squares, such as due to being unarmed with no beneficial feats, still allow me to either make the AoO or forego it?
0.d) Is this the same case for ranged weapons such as a longbow?
0.e) What about a ranged weapon in combination with the snap shot feat? (you threaten a 5 feet area around you)
Scenario 1:
1.0 Elephant tramples a full round action and moves 40 feet in one direction. After 20 feet there is a commoner with a club, having a single AoO to spend as most characters do.
1.1 The elephant approaches to 5 feet and enters the threatened square of the commoner. Nothing happens.
1.2 The Elephant enters the square of the commoner. Commoner may now make an AoO at -4 or forego that AoO in order to attempt a reflex save for half damage.
1.3 The Elephant keeps moving, leaving the square of the commoner (which the commoner threatens).
1.3 a) The Commoner did use his AoO at -4 penalty already, so nothing happens because he expended his single AoO already.
1.3 b) The Commoner chose the Reflex save. Regardless of outcome, since he forewent the AoO before, he can now still make his AoO now that the Elephant keeps moving out of threatened squares, 1.3 c) OR did he miss his window to do it because it is all still the trample action, and this nothing "new" that provokes?
Scenario 2:
2.0 Elephant tramples a full round action and moves 40 feet in one direction. After 20 feet there is a Spearman with a Longspear (Reach), having a single AoO to spend, as most characters do.
2.1 Elephant approaches within 10 feet, entering the threatened area.
2.2 Elephant approaches within 5 feet, thus leaving a threatened square. Spearman may now elect to make regular AoO or not.
2.3 Elephant enters square of the Spearman, triggering the Trample sequence:
2.3 a) The Spearman did not use his AoO yet. He has a reach weapon he cannot use against adjacent targets. Can he still perform an AoO at -4?
2.3 b) Can he forego the AoO for the Reflex save?
2.3 c) Assuming he DID use his AoO in step 2.2, can he still insist on making a reflex save? (He does not have any AoO's left)
Scenario 3:
Same as Scenario 2, but we now look at a Reach cleric with Longspear and Combat Reflexes (lets assume he has enough AoO's for everything)
3.1 Elephant approaches within 10 feet, entering the threatened area.
3.2 Elephant approaches within 5 feet, thus leaving a threatened square. Reach Cleric makes his AoO because he has plenty left over.
3.3 Elephant enters square of the Reach Cleric, triggering the Trample sequence:
3.3 a) Can the Reach cleric now use a second AoO (at -4) against the Elephant because the first time it was against movement, the second time is against the actual trample which is performed like an overrun, which provokes?
3.3 b) Or can the Reach cleric NOT use a second AoO because it is STILL the same action, namely the Full round action Trample?
Elephant with Improved Overrun:
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing an overrun combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to overrun a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to overrun you. Targets of your overrun attempt may not chose to avoid you.
Since Trample is worded: "This works just like the overrun combat maneuver", does Trample benefit from Improved Overrun in the way that it completely negates the enemies ability to either make àn AoO at -4 AND making a Reflex save?
I know these are a lot of questions at once, but being this specific helps greatly when dealing with multiple situations and characters. My group and me would be very thankful for your insight. :-)
In my game is a player with a level 7 elephant animal companion, which has the universal monster ability "trample".
Trample (Ex) As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability can attempt to overrun any creature that is at least one size category Smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a –4 penalty. If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can attempt to avoid the trampling creature and receive a Reflex save to take half damage. The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.
Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. If your overrun attempt fails, you stop in the space directly in front of the opponent, or the nearest open space in front of the creature if there are other creatures occupying that space.
When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal. If your maneuver is successful, you move through the target’s space. If your attack exceeds your opponent’s CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target’s space and the target is knocked prone. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has.
There are a few things unclear about when or how many Attacks of Opportunity can be made, and what the meaning of "foregoing" an AoO is.
Elemental Rule Questions:
0.a) Does foregoing an AoO have the same meaning as expending it? My understanding is no, but i'd like a confirmation.
0.b) Does being grappled, which prevents the use of AoO's, also prevent foregoing the AoO?
0.c) Does not threatening any squares, such as due to being unarmed with no beneficial feats, still allow me to either make the AoO or forego it?
0.d) Is this the same case for ranged weapons such as a longbow?
0.e) What about a ranged weapon in combination with the snap shot feat? (you threaten a 5 feet area around you)
Scenario 1:
1.0 Elephant tramples a full round action and moves 40 feet in one direction. After 20 feet there is a commoner with a club, having a single AoO to spend as most characters do.
1.1 The elephant approaches to 5 feet and enters the threatened square of the commoner. Nothing happens.
1.2 The Elephant enters the square of the commoner. Commoner may now make an AoO at -4 or forego that AoO in order to attempt a reflex save for half damage.
1.3 The Elephant keeps moving, leaving the square of the commoner (which the commoner threatens).
1.3 a) The Commoner did use his AoO at -4 penalty already, so nothing happens because he expended his single AoO already.
1.3 b) The Commoner chose the Reflex save. Regardless of outcome, since he forewent the AoO before, he can now still make his AoO now that the Elephant keeps moving out of threatened squares, 1.3 c) OR did he miss his window to do it because it is all still the trample action, and this nothing "new" that provokes?
Scenario 2:
2.0 Elephant tramples a full round action and moves 40 feet in one direction. After 20 feet there is a Spearman with a Longspear (Reach), having a single AoO to spend, as most characters do.
2.1 Elephant approaches within 10 feet, entering the threatened area.
2.2 Elephant approaches within 5 feet, thus leaving a threatened square. Spearman may now elect to make regular AoO or not.
2.3 Elephant enters square of the Spearman, triggering the Trample sequence:
2.3 a) The Spearman did not use his AoO yet. He has a reach weapon he cannot use against adjacent targets. Can he still perform an AoO at -4?
2.3 b) Can he forego the AoO for the Reflex save?
2.3 c) Assuming he DID use his AoO in step 2.2, can he still insist on making a reflex save? (He does not have any AoO's left)
Scenario 3:
Same as Scenario 2, but we now look at a Reach cleric with Longspear and Combat Reflexes (lets assume he has enough AoO's for everything)
3.1 Elephant approaches within 10 feet, entering the threatened area.
3.2 Elephant approaches within 5 feet, thus leaving a threatened square. Reach Cleric makes his AoO because he has plenty left over.
3.3 Elephant enters square of the Reach Cleric, triggering the Trample sequence:
3.3 a) Can the Reach cleric now use a second AoO (at -4) against the Elephant because the first time it was against movement, the second time is against the actual trample which is performed like an overrun, which provokes?
3.3 b) Or can the Reach cleric NOT use a second AoO because it is STILL the same action, namely the Full round action Trample?
Elephant with Improved Overrun:
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing an overrun combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to overrun a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to overrun you. Targets of your overrun attempt may not chose to avoid you.
Since Trample is worded: "This works just like the overrun combat maneuver", does Trample benefit from Improved Overrun in the way that it completely negates the enemies ability to either make àn AoO at -4 AND making a Reflex save?
I know these are a lot of questions at once, but being this specific helps greatly when dealing with multiple situations and characters. My group and me would be very thankful for your insight. :-)