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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Yet another Ranger revision



Segev
2020-04-20, 08:35 PM
From discussions in this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610713-Ranger-I-think-it-s-fine-but&p=24462270), I was inspired to write this up. It's meant to encourage more of a strong exploration sense, and a sense of mastery of the wilderness, with the things you choose to be extra good in as more ribbons than the core features. Comments are welcome, and requested.


Ranger

Tracker
Beginning at 1st level, you have significant experience studying, tracking, and even talking to the beings that traverse or dwell in the wilderness. When dealing with beasts, dragons, elementals, fey, giants, humanoids, monstrosities, oozes, or plants, you have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checs to track them, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.

When tracking such creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area. In addition, in any dealings with or observations of such creatures, your study of their traits, quirks, and body language has given you an insight into what they mean or do. Even if you cannot hear or understand their language, when watching such creatures talk, you can get the basic gist of what they’re saying and talking about. If they can see and hear you, you can use a combination of exaggerated gestures, pidgin speak, and vocal sounds to convey simple concepts and messages, albeit up to 4x as slowly.

Any creatures of the type to which you’re communicating, as well as other Rangers, will be able to pick up the same meaning. Nuance and detail cannot be conveyed in this fashion. You might be able to convey, “How do I find town?” or “The bugbear camp is a long way down that road,” but not how many bugbears there are or necessarily which town you’re looking for.

Favored Enemy
At 1st level, choose a kind of alien or unnatural being with which your experiences in the wild have familiarized you, for better or for worse. Aberrations, celestials, constructs, fiends, and undead are valid choices. You gain the benefits of Tracker with these creatures in addition to those above.

Natural Explorer
You are at home in the wilderness and are adept at traveling and surviving away from civilization. You gain proficiency with Survival. If you are already proficient, you gain Expertise in it, and double your proficiency bonus on checks related to it. This does not stack with other effects which double your proficiency bonus.

When traveling in the wilderness, you gain the following benefits:
Difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel.
Even when you are engaged in another activity (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
You are adept at finding ideal sites for various activities, from defensive stands to camp sites (and these are not mutually exclusive). When you spend an hour (which may be done during travel) searching for such a site, the location you find is easily defended and comfortable for a medium or long-term stop.
The site will be useful for an intended purpose, if it is feasible to find such in the environment.
If combat breaks out in or around this site (within a 1000 foot radius outdoors, or within a single room or hall indoors or underground), you may use a reaction to declare up to your Wisdom modifier in five-foot-square regions to be difficult terrain. You may do this once, plus once for every five levels of Ranger you have, for any given site you scout out. Creatures you designate may ignore this difficult terrain.

You are particularly familiar with one type of natural environment and are more at home in those areas than most civilized creatures are in their own houses. Choose one type of favored terrain: arctic, coast, desert, forest, grassland, mountain, or swamp. When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you're proficient in.

While traveling for an hour or more in your favored terrain, your traveling companions enjoy the following benefits:
Your group can't become lost except by magical means.
You can guide your group to move stealthily at a normal pace.
While in your favored terrain, you also gain the following personal benefits:
Your speed is increased by 10 ft.
You gain a climb and swim speed equal to your walking speed.
You do not suffer disadvantage for attacking at long range with a ranged weapon.
You are not impeded by difficult terrain.
You are proficient in athletics, acrobatics, and stealth. If you are already proficient in any of these, your proficiency bonus is doubled for those in which you are already proficient. This does not stack with other things which double your proficiency bonus.

Expert Stalker
At 1st, 6th, 10th, and 14th level, you may choose one of these options:
You learn hunter’s mark as a ranger spell, and gain the ability to cast it once, recovering the ability after a long rest. When you gain the Spellcasting feature at level 2, you may also expend spell slots to cast it as normal. You may choose this multiple times; each time you do, you may cast hunter’s mark without using a spell slot one more time.
If you know hunter’s mark, you do not need to Concentrate on it as long as you use it only on creatures to which your Tracker ability applies. You may choose this only once.
Choose an additional Favored Enemy. You may choose this as many times as you like.
Choose an additional Favored Terrain. You may choose this as many times as you like.

Fighting Style
At 2nd level, you adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.
Archery. You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.
Defense. While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
Two-Weapon Fighting. When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Spellcasting
By the time your each 2nd level, you have learned to use the magical essence of nature to cast spells, much as a druid does.

Spell Slots
The Ranger table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level or higher. For example, if you prepare the 1st level spell animal friendship and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast animal friendship using either slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.

You prepare the list of ranger spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the ranger spell list. When you do so, choose a number of ranger spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + half your ranger level, rounded down (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of ranger spells requires time spent in communing with nature: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

Spellcasting Ability
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your ranger spells, since your magic draws upon your devotion and attunement to nature. You use your Wisdom whenever a ranger spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a ranger spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell Save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell Attack Modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

Ranger Archetype
At 3rd level, you choose an archetype that you strive to emulate, such as the Hunter. Your choice grants you features at 3rd level and again at 7th, 11th, and 15th level.

Primeval Awareness
Beginning at 3rd level, you can use your action and expend one ranger spell slot to focus your awareness on the region around you. For 1 minute per level of the spell slot you expend, you can sense whether the following types of creatures are present within 1 mile of you (or within up to 6 miles if you are in your favored terrain): aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead. It also reveals if any creature you can see is one of these beings, and gives the rough direction and distance to any congregations numbering a dozen or more of them within range.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Land's Stride
Starting at 8th level, moving through nonmagical difficult terrain costs you no extra movement. You can also pass through nonmagical plants without being slowed by them and without taking damage from them if they have thorns, spines, or a similar hazard. In addition, you have advantage on saving throws against plants that are magically created or manipulated to impede movement, such as those created by the entangle spell.

Hide In Plain Sight
Starting at 10th level, when you are in your favored terrain, your habitual and natural mode of dress camouflages you sufficiently that you can take the Hide action even when directly observed. Outside of your favored terrain, you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, or other naturally occurring materials with which to create your camouflage. Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can take the Hide action even when directly observed, as if in your favored terrain. While camouflaged for a particular terrain, you do not gain the benefits of this in any other. This camouflage remains viable for up to one hour of travel or exploration, though as long as you remain relatively stationary it will persist until you change it.

You can also use camouflage to set up an ambush. If you spend one minute arranging your blind or camouflaging yourself for a particular spot, you can gain a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks as long as you remain there without moving or taking actions. Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this bonus, though you retain the ability to Hide while observed in this environment. You can also set up blinds and camouflage for ambushes for others; they gain the benefits as long as they take no actions other than the initial Hide and don't move. They gain no other benefit of this feature from camouflage as they don't know how to use it effectively.

Vanish
Starting at 14th level, you can use the Hide action as a bonus action on your turn, and blindsight and other special senses cannot prevent you from doing so. Also, you can't be tracked by nonmagical means, unless you choose to leave a trail.

Feral Sense
At 18th level, you gain the ability to cast beast sense without preparing it or spending a spell slot. When you do, you do not need to spend an action nor maintain concentration to gain its benefits, and you continue to use your own senses as well as the target’s.

You also gain a keen sense of smell and have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks pertaining to scent, and may detect things by scent alone which others of your race might miss.

Relentless Stalker
You cannot be evaded by those upon whom you’ve set your sights. As your movement during your turn, if you have a creature targeted with hunter’s mark or a similar effect or have taken an attack action against a creature since the start of your last turn, you may relentlessly stalk it. When you do, you appear no further from it than you were at the start of its last turn, and up to your movement speed closer to it. You do not need to traverse the intervening distance, and you appear in a safe location with as clear a line of sight to the creature as possible. If this is not possible, you can appear closer, up to and including in its space.

KorvinStarmast
2020-04-22, 03:24 PM
Just letting you know I am reviewing this and I'll drop you some thoughts a bit later when I can. KS.

Aeriox
2020-04-22, 03:29 PM
I really like almost all of this, and I would definitely play it. The features you gave Natural Explorer are nice, and they feel like you are, in fact, an explorer. Relentless stalker seems a little weird though. So essentially, you can teleport to any enemy you’ve attacked? What happens if they were 30 feet away from you and cast plane shift? Do you teleport to 30 feet away from them on whatever plane they go to?

Segev
2020-04-22, 03:34 PM
I really like almost all of this, and I would definitely play it. The features you gave Natural Explorer are nice, and they feel like you are, in fact, an explorer. Relentless stalker seems a little weird though. So essentially, you can teleport to any enemy you’ve attacked? What happens if they were 30 feet away from you and cast plane shift? Do you teleport to 30 feet away from them on whatever plane they go to?

YEah, I was ... fumbling about for an idea to match the other level 20 capstones. You've got the right of how it's supposed to work. Though it also works on anybody you've got hunter's marked or similarly...focused-on. It's not a new idea of mine; it's a way to prevent spellcasters from just neener-neenering away from a martial. In this case, it's meant to fit with the hunter/tracker aesthetic. But it is a bit weird to have magical teleport "all of a sudden" on it.

Ideally implemented, it would feel like a sort of "Terminator" or "horror monster" thing.


Glad you like the rest of it! The explorer vibe is what I was really trying to enhance, while making it something usable in gameplay (rather than just negating the "hard part" of exploring and leaving it off-screen). Making it do something interesting on screen, making the expertise matter in scenes that time is spent on.


KorvinStarmast - Thanks for looking it over. I look forward to your comments.

Aeriox
2020-04-22, 05:44 PM
It’s cool, and I get why you have it, but it feels too limited and too powerful at the same time. On the one hand, you can follow someone anywhere, with no limitations. At the same time, if the target did cast plane shift you would be alone with them on whatever plane they went to. It just doesn’t seem like it would work with your party at all. Lastly, you could go an entire dungeon or even campaign without using it, if nothing teleports far enough away for it to be worthwhile.

Segev
2020-04-22, 05:53 PM
It’s cool, and I get why you have it, but it feels too limited and too powerful at the same time. On the one hand, you can follow someone anywhere, with no limitations. At the same time, if the target did cast plane shift you would be alone with them on whatever plane they went to. It just doesn’t seem like it would work with your party at all. Lastly, you could go an entire dungeon or even campaign without using it, if nothing teleports far enough away for it to be worthwhile.

It does let you keep up with anything. They don't HAVE to teleport. That quickling trying to out-run you? You're [movement speed] closer to it than you were last round, or still right on top of it. That flying thing? You're right over it.

But I do see your point, especially about not playing with the party. I will need to think more on this. It may even be scrapped if I come up with a different concept for a capstone I like better. All I know is, "up to +5 damage on a single attack each round if your target happens to be a favored enemy" is pathetic. Frankly, anything that's just "more damage" feels lame, to me, but the amount and narrow application was even worse, which is why I scrapped that completely already. Maybe I should reexamine "Foe Slayer" as a concept, but even the concept of the Ranger as executioner for his capstone feels disappointing to me.

At least the "unstoppable horror monster" thing, while tying into being an executioner, feels more...hunter-like.

Aeriox
2020-04-22, 05:57 PM
Yeah, I like the flavor and the idea of it more than Foe Slayer. I just don’t know how to reconcile this lone hunter idea with someone in a group of adventurers.

Segev
2020-04-22, 06:21 PM
Yeah, I like the flavor and the idea of it more than Foe Slayer. I just don’t know how to reconcile this lone hunter idea with someone in a group of adventurers.

Maybe something where the target instead is forcibly returned to where he was at the end of the ranger’s last turn?

I still don’t love it, but it doesn’t separate the Ranger from his party anymore.

Aeriox
2020-04-22, 07:41 PM
Well that would basically just be the 11th level ability for the monster slayer subclass. It could work, but it still doesn’t feel right to me. You could, however, try to do something where hunters mark prevents the target from getting more than whatever distance away. Otherwise, here are a few ideas I have that might work as part of a capstone:

1. You gain some amount of hit points or temporary hit points when you do damage to your favored enemy/hunters mark target.
2. Your hunters mark does increasing damage over time; maybe round one it does 1d6 per hit and round two it doubles to 2d6 and then 4d6. This would be hard to balance but might work.
3. Gives you the ability to stack hunters marks on the same target.
4. You automatically succeed on all checks to track your favored enemies, and have advantage on checks to track anyone else.

Segev
2020-04-22, 10:21 PM
Something I was thinking about:

King of the Wild
At 20th level, you choose either one more favored terrain, or one more favored enemy.

If you choose a favored terrain, you become a master of wilderness activity. You gain the benefits that Natural Explorer gives you in your favored terrain for all terrains, and, in your favored terrain, you roll a 20 whenever you are called upon to roll an Athletics, Acrobatics, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival check.

If you choose a favored enemy, your understanding of the creatures you've spent your life studying has improved to the point that you roll a 20 whenever you are called upon to roll Athletics, Acrobatics, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival check pertaining to or opposing any creature to which Tracker applies for you.



I may need to tweak a couple other things, like when and where Nature gets boosted for earlier abilities. But this is meant to make them supremely skilled in their favored terrains, or against their favored enemies (and all the other things they track well).

Kane0
2020-05-14, 06:51 PM
Tracker
Beginning at 1st level, you have significant experience studying, tracking, and even talking to the beings that traverse or dwell in the wilderness. When dealing with beasts, dragons, elementals, fey, giants, humanoids, monstrosities, oozes, or plants, you have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checs to track them, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.

When tracking such creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area. In addition, in any dealings with or observations of such creatures, your study of their traits, quirks, and body language has given you an insight into what they mean or do. Even if you cannot hear or understand their language, when watching such creatures talk, you can get the basic gist of what they’re saying and talking about. If they can see and hear you, you can use a combination of exaggerated gestures, pidgin speak, and vocal sounds to convey simple concepts and messages, albeit up to 4x as slowly.

Any creatures of the type to which you’re communicating, as well as other Rangers, will be able to pick up the same meaning. Nuance and detail cannot be conveyed in this fashion. You might be able to convey, “How do I find town?” or “The bugbear camp is a long way down that road,” but not how many bugbears there are or necessarily which town you’re looking for.

Favored Enemy
At 1st level, choose a kind of alien or unnatural being with which your experiences in the wild have familiarized you, for better or for worse. Aberrations, celestials, constructs, fiends, and undead are valid choices. You gain the benefits of Tracker with these creatures in addition to those above.

I like what you've done here. I would probably move Dragons, Elementals and Fey from tracker to Favored Enemy myself. Anything else to say here would probably just be cleaning up text.



Natural Explorer
You are at home in the wilderness and are adept at traveling and surviving away from civilization. You gain proficiency with Survival. If you are already proficient, you gain Expertise in it, and double your proficiency bonus on checks related to it. This does not stack with other effects which double your proficiency bonus.

When traveling in the wilderness, you gain the following benefits:
Difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel.
Even when you are engaged in another activity (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
You are adept at finding ideal sites for various activities, from defensive stands to camp sites (and these are not mutually exclusive). When you spend an hour (which may be done during travel) searching for such a site, the location you find is easily defended and comfortable for a medium or long-term stop.
The site will be useful for an intended purpose, if it is feasible to find such in the environment.
If combat breaks out in or around this site (within a 1000 foot radius outdoors, or within a single room or hall indoors or underground), you may use a reaction to declare up to your Wisdom modifier in five-foot-square regions to be difficult terrain. You may do this once, plus once for every five levels of Ranger you have, for any given site you scout out. Creatures you designate may ignore this difficult terrain.

You are particularly familiar with one type of natural environment and are more at home in those areas than most civilized creatures are in their own houses. Choose one type of favored terrain: arctic, coast, desert, forest, grassland, mountain, or swamp. When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you're proficient in.

While traveling for an hour or more in your favored terrain, your traveling companions enjoy the following benefits:
Your group can't become lost except by magical means.
You can guide your group to move stealthily at a normal pace.
While in your favored terrain, you also gain the following personal benefits:
Your speed is increased by 10 ft.
You gain a climb and swim speed equal to your walking speed.
You do not suffer disadvantage for attacking at long range with a ranged weapon.
You are not impeded by difficult terrain.
You are proficient in athletics, acrobatics, and stealth. If you are already proficient in any of these, your proficiency bonus is doubled for those in which you are already proficient. This does not stack with other things which double your proficiency bonus.

This is a chunky bit of writing! I fully believe it isn't all necessary to convey the basic concept of 'is good at surviving, living and even thriving out in the wild'.
Survival prof/expertise fits well, though I would contest that you should at least be able to pick between say Animal Handling, Nature and Survival. All of the rest is a long list that benefit travelling specifically. It's nice that some of these are spelled out, but it runs into the 'mermaid problem' where if Rangers specifically can do things like 'find a good campsite' with a dedicated class feature, does that mean someone else with a good survival check cannot?

I would cut this all the way down really, perhaps to three basic benefits in addition to the prof/expertise:
- Retain passive perception without disadvantage while doing something else
- Not slowed by difficult terrain or moving stealthily (your choice)
- Gain climb or swim speed (your choice)
Importantly, at least two of these function outside of travel and aren't restricted to a particular terrain, so it feels more applicable than just for 'montages' and the DM doesn't have to play the terrain relevance metagame.



Expert Stalker
At 1st, 6th, 10th, and 14th level, you may choose one of these options:
You learn hunter’s mark as a ranger spell, and gain the ability to cast it once, recovering the ability after a long rest. When you gain the Spellcasting feature at level 2, you may also expend spell slots to cast it as normal. You may choose this multiple times; each time you do, you may cast hunter’s mark without using a spell slot one more time.
If you know hunter’s mark, you do not need to Concentrate on it as long as you use it only on creatures to which your Tracker ability applies. You may choose this only once.
Choose an additional Favored Enemy. You may choose this as many times as you like.
Choose an additional Favored Terrain. You may choose this as many times as you like.

It's nice that you're rolling the choice of Favored Enemy/Terrain together, but as above I don't think its really beneficial to have Fav terrains in the first place.
I can see that the Hunter's mark thing is supposed to mimic Paladin's smite in a way? They don't get it at level 1 though, and you have plenty going on at that level anyways. Almost everyone will pick the concentration change though, why not change the spell itself, such as an upcasting benefit?



Spellcasting

Prepared casting, woohoo!



Primeval Awareness
Beginning at 3rd level, you can use your action and expend one ranger spell slot to focus your awareness on the region around you. For 1 minute per level of the spell slot you expend, you can sense whether the following types of creatures are present within 1 mile of you (or within up to 6 miles if you are in your favored terrain): aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead. It also reveals if any creature you can see is one of these beings, and gives the rough direction and distance to any congregations numbering a dozen or more of them within range.

Not a fan of using a spell slot, would rather it be like Divine Sense.



Land's Stride
Starting at 8th level, moving through nonmagical difficult terrain costs you no extra movement. You can also pass through nonmagical plants without being slowed by them and without taking damage from them if they have thorns, spines, or a similar hazard. In addition, you have advantage on saving throws against plants that are magically created or manipulated to impede movement, such as those created by the entangle spell.

Well we already addressed difficult terrain at level 1, so I guess this should become like a Freedom of Movement-lite?



Hide In Plain Sight
Starting at 10th level, when you are in your favored terrain, your habitual and natural mode of dress camouflages you sufficiently that you can take the Hide action even when directly observed. Outside of your favored terrain, you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, or other naturally occurring materials with which to create your camouflage. Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can take the Hide action even when directly observed, as if in your favored terrain. While camouflaged for a particular terrain, you do not gain the benefits of this in any other. This camouflage remains viable for up to one hour of travel or exploration, though as long as you remain relatively stationary it will persist until you change it.

You can also use camouflage to set up an ambush. If you spend one minute arranging your blind or camouflaging yourself for a particular spot, you can gain a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks as long as you remain there without moving or taking actions. Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this bonus, though you retain the ability to Hide while observed in this environment. You can also set up blinds and camouflage for ambushes for others; they gain the benefits as long as they take no actions other than the initial Hide and don't move. They gain no other benefit of this feature from camouflage as they don't know how to use it effectively.

You know, level 10 seems a bit late to establish that Rangers are stealthy all of a sudden. The only other indication up until now is one of the many points in Natural Explorer and having Stealth on the proficiency list to choose from. Maybe introducing a proper stealth feature earlier would be a good idea, like swapping this to what you would get at level 8 or even 6.
As far as the actual feature goes, it's wordy but it works. It's good that you can move with it and share with your party members, and hiding in front of someone watching you is pretty dope.



Vanish
Starting at 14th level, you can use the Hide action as a bonus action on your turn, and blindsight and other special senses cannot prevent you from doing so. Also, you can't be tracked by nonmagical means, unless you choose to leave a trail.

See above. Nice that it isn't just a poor mans Cunning Action now, but still very very late. Also sidenote, who gets nonmagically tracked in Tier 3?



Feral Sense
At 18th level, you gain the ability to cast beast sense without preparing it or spending a spell slot. When you do, you do not need to spend an action nor maintain concentration to gain its benefits, and you continue to use your own senses as well as the target’s.

You also gain a keen sense of smell and have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks pertaining to scent, and may detect things by scent alone which others of your race might miss.

That seems to be different enough to the spell that you can just passively have the benefits really.



Relentless Stalker
You cannot be evaded by those upon whom you’ve set your sights. As your movement during your turn, if you have a creature targeted with hunter’s mark or a similar effect or have taken an attack action against a creature since the start of your last turn, you may relentlessly stalk it. When you do, you appear no further from it than you were at the start of its last turn, and up to your movement speed closer to it. You do not need to traverse the intervening distance, and you appear in a safe location with as clear a line of sight to the creature as possible. If this is not possible, you can appear closer, up to and including in its space.

You know, with how you've changed favored enemy working with tracker the original capstone wouldn't be nearly as bad. Anyways, what is 'a similar effect'? I think having attacked it last turn is all you need here, no need for the other qualifiers. Probably just more wording cleanup needed here really, it looks good.

Overall, solid work. Not the total rework that I would do (and have done), but hits all the right important bits in some way or other.

Segev
2020-05-15, 10:11 AM
I like what you've done here. I would probably move Dragons, Elementals and Fey from tracker to Favored Enemy myself. Anything else to say here would probably just be cleaning up text.First off, thanks for the review and suggestions/comments.

On the reasoning for dragons, elementals, and fey: they're "native to the wilds" type creatures. I hesitate to remove them to Favored Enemy because that already has 5 entries. Admittedly, if you took all of the Expert Stalker choices as more Favored Enemies, you could get all five, but I suspect that'd be rare. I also hesitate to remove them because, again, thematically, they're things you'd EXPECT to find in the wilds.

Thematically, I'd be more inclined to remove humanoids, but I want them to remain a thing easily tracked and pantomime-interacted with.

Is there a balance reason you'd move Dragons, Elementals, and Fey, or is it more that you just see them as thematically less fitting?


This is a chunky bit of writing! I fully believe it isn't all necessary to convey the basic concept of 'is good at surviving, living and even thriving out in the wild'.Possibly not.

Survival prof/expertise fits well, though I would contest that you should at least be able to pick between say Animal Handling, Nature and Survival. All of the rest is a long list that benefit travelling specifically. It's nice that some of these are spelled out, but it runs into the 'mermaid problem' where if Rangers specifically can do things like 'find a good campsite' with a dedicated class feature, does that mean someone else with a good survival check cannot?

I would cut this all the way down really, perhaps to three basic benefits in addition to the prof/expertise:
- Retain passive perception without disadvantage while doing something else
- Not slowed by difficult terrain or moving stealthily (your choice)
- Gain climb or swim speed (your choice)
Importantly, at least two of these function outside of travel and aren't restricted to a particular terrain, so it feels more applicable than just for 'montages' and the DM doesn't have to play the terrain relevance metagame.I need to revisit the skill proficiencies and expertise. The first two items in your suggested truncated list bother me because they're so rarely useful. They're ribbons that don't do much in real play (as opposed to ribbons that get to be shown off, even if they're not powerful, in play). I agree on your analysis of the last one.

The reason I like the favored terrain isn't because I want to limit the ranger, but because I want to give him some ... thematic resonance as a "ranger from the North" or what-have-you. The overly-complicated site-finding thing isn't actually meant to be an air-breathing mermaid merit (I loathe those), but to give a distinct advantage when he's the one picking the site. Anybody can, assuming the DM lets them, find a reasonable camp site. Flat, dry enough, etc. The Ranger finds one that gives them combat advantage if they're attacked while resting. But...I still am not happy with those mechanics. They are, as you say, chunky, and as you didn't say, clumsy.

Some nice, showy, not-so-useful-they-feel-like-he's-underpowered-outside-of-his-favored-terrain ribbons would be ideal, I think. I just haven't thought of any good ones.

Or, maybe not a ribbon, but just do something like Circle of the Land and give them expanded spell lists to choose from based on favored terrains? Might actually be too strong, considering Circle of the Land gets fewer terrain types on a given build. Hrm.


It's nice that you're rolling the choice of Favored Enemy/Terrain together, but as above I don't think its really beneficial to have Fav terrains in the first place.I figure, with things that are not super-strong, but are nicely defining, letting them trade out one or the other to customize more is a good idea.


I can see that the Hunter's mark thing is supposed to mimic Paladin's smite in a way? They don't get it at level 1 though, and you have plenty going on at that level anyways. Almost everyone will pick the concentration change though, why not change the spell itself, such as an upcasting benefit?I wasn't thinking about Paladin's Smite at all, actually.

My goal with the hunter's mark ranger-specific mechanic is to leave it as a valid spell for Magic Initiate and Magical Secrets and any future subclasses that might give access to it, but to make Rangers super good at it.


Prepared casting, woohoo!Yeah, I never got why they made 5e Rangers known-listers. :smallconfused: This opens up their spell list as a tool kit, rather than as something they have to parsimoniously nitpick over, with some obvious taxes (like hunter's mark).


Not a fan of using a spell slot, would rather it be like Divine Sense.I'll think about it. My main goal was to make it useful by giving more distinguishing information, rather than merely, "Yep, something's here...somewhere." The notion that it would ever FAIL to ping as written in the PHB was laughable to me. Elementals and fey are all over the wilderness, even if they're reclusive and hiding. A six mile radius is HUGE. The big thing I changed was more about being able to get a bead on any clusters of them, being able to identify any in line of sight, and having an idea of which he's sensing, so that using it and getting "well, elementals are around somewhere" is basically just the null result, but he can get more if something important is there to be sensed.


Well we already addressed difficult terrain at level 1, so I guess this should become like a Freedom of Movement-lite?Maybe it could be upgraded to that, but to be clear: At level 1, the ranger gets to ignore difficult terrain in his favored terrain. This opens that up to all terrains for non-magical difficult terrain. Magical difficult terrain, he still is affected by, unless he's in a favored terrain.

I realize these are fine distinctions which can easily get lost in the shuffle, but I thought they provided some nice character. They definitely need to be made clearer if they're kept.


You know, level 10 seems a bit late to establish that Rangers are stealthy all of a sudden. The only other indication up until now is one of the many points in Natural Explorer and having Stealth on the proficiency list to choose from. Maybe introducing a proper stealth feature earlier would be a good idea, like swapping this to what you would get at level 8 or even 6.
As far as the actual feature goes, it's wordy but it works. It's good that you can move with it and share with your party members, and hiding in front of someone watching you is pretty dope.


See above. Nice that it isn't just a poor mans Cunning Action now, but still very very late. Also sidenote, who gets nonmagically tracked in Tier 3?I'm sure nonmagical tracking, much like other things handled by bounded accuracy, still happens, but point taken nonetheless.

Moving these down to lower level would be a major reshuffle, but might be a way to bolster some weaker notions.

I wonder if it would be too much to put Hide In Plain Sight all the way down at level 1. Or if I could find a way to break it up so it's a suitable ribbon for Favored Terrain at level one, and by level 6 can do its full deal. Gotta be careful not to step too strongly on Rogues, but then, Rogues have less emphasis on stealth and more on skill in general now. A ranger/rogue being the go-to for "I am the stealthiest of the stealthy" might not be a bad idea....


That seems to be different enough to the spell that you can just passively have the benefits really.I'd need to rewrite the spell effect to specify targeting, saves, etc., which is why I just reference the spell. "You can cast the spell without components" appears all over 5e. I do understand where you're coming from and am open to counterarguments, however, if you think I'm missing something or it could be written more simply.


You know, with how you've changed favored enemy working with tracker the original capstone wouldn't be nearly as bad.Really? I thought it actually got even less desirable as a capstone with things working better. Frankly, a Ranger capstone that isn't combat-only would be better still, in my opinion, but this IS a D&D game.


Anyways, what is 'a similar effect'? I think having attacked it last turn is all you need here, no need for the other qualifiers. Probably just more wording cleanup needed here really, it looks good.Eh, something like hex, I guess, but given that this is a capstone, I really don't need to consider multiclassing, and a Ranger who took Magic Initiate but didn't take hunter's mark would be so much a corner case that I probably don't need to write rules text to accommodate it, especially if it opens up questions of what exactly it means. You're right, "hunter's mark or you made an attack against them since the start of your last turn" should probably be sufficient.


Overall, solid work. Not the total rework that I would do (and have done), but hits all the right important bits in some way or other.Thanks!

The goal is... well, I suppose "minimal reworking" is really not the goal. But to make it recognizable as the same class, and to keep the...trappings, I guess? That's one reason I've worked to keep a recognizable Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain, and build up Hide In Plain Sight to be ... well, worth the name.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments; I'll be fiddling with this over the next day or so, and see if I can't improve it based on them and what others have said.

Kane0
2020-05-16, 06:04 AM
A refinement to my suggestions:


Favored Enemy / Tracker
When dealing with beasts, giants, humanoids, monstrosities, oozes, or plants, you have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track them, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
When tracking such creatures you also learn their number and how long ago they passed through the area. In addition, when interacting with such creatures you can use a combination of gestures, pidgin speak and vocal sounds to convey simple concepts and messages.
At levels 6, 10 and 14 you can add an additional creature type to gain the benefits of this feature: Aberrations, Celestials, Constructs, Dragons, Elementals, Fey, Fiends and Undead
Optional: Once long rest you can cast Hunter's Mark on a Favored Enemy, which cannot be moved if that creature dies, with an extra use per long rest at levels 6, 10 and 14.

The reasoning behind the split here is mechanically all humanoids is a big in and of itself and thematically all the ones you get automatically aren't typically supernatural, whereas the ones you do are.
The optional is thematically appropriate but mechanically unnecessary, Ranger's damage output is fine for the most part (although one could argue about bonus action usage)

Natural Explorer
You gain proficiency in your choice of Animal Handling, Nature or Survival. If you are already proficient in your choice you instead gain Expertise. In addition, you gain the following benefits:
- While travelling you remain alert to danger while performing other activities such as foraging, navigating or tracking
- You gain either a climb or swim speed equal to your walking speed
- You can ignore difficult terrain or move at normal speed while hiding without penalty (this isn't actually specified in the rules, so depending on how your table handles stealth might be a Mermaid problem)
Once you choose your movement options from this feature they cannot be changed.

Now you've got a skill that compliments the three you start with on the chassis (total of four to match the Rogue, except one is semi-locked), a permanent movement speed usable in out of exploration and your choice of a second movement feature on top of that again usable in and outside of exploration. The combination of your choices of points two and three indicates your preferred terrain without having it being an option in a list you simply pick.
The single travel bullet point makes you literally twice as good as anyone else by doing two things at once but not outright removing gameplay that might otherwise offer you spotlight.
Put them together in any combination and you become a natural explorer, and also introduces the 'Rangers can be good at stealth' idea to the player before level 10.

And those are your features at first level, which I think is plenty enough really.

Primeval Awareness
You can use your action and expend one ranger spell slot to focus your awareness on the region around you. For 1 minute per level of the spell slot you expend you can sense whether your Favored Enemies are present, their direction, distance and number within a number of miles of you equal to your proficiency bonus. It also reveals if any creature you can see is one of these creatures.

Now this would be worth a spell slot, and ties directly into your FE choices to boot.

Hide in Plain Sight (Move to level 6)
If you have access to naturally occurring materials from the area you can spend one minute to make camouflage for a number of other creatures up to your Wisdom bonus (minimum 1), which lasts for up to one hour. Camouflaged creatures can take the Hide action even when being directly observed, and as long as they remain stationary gain a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks.

I would also consider completely swapping this feature with Vanish at the level 14 slot as getting Bonus Action hide first makes sense and is closer to Cunning Action.

Land's Stride (move to level 10)
You have advantage on Saving Throws to avoid being Paralysed, Restrained or reducing your movement speed.

Because we already ignore difficult terrain.

Feral Sense
As an action you can a willing beast. For up to one hour, you can see through the beast’s eyes and hear what it hears.
In addition, you also gain a keen sense of smell and have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks pertaining to scent.


Just to touch up some of my thoughts, hope the ideas help.