Tempest Cleric help

[Anthiondel]

Planning a tempest cleric for a nautical campaign (saltmarsh) and the DM suggested us to pick "aquatic" races.

What's more important on a tempest cleric? Better wis or better attack stat (dex/str)?

I never play clerics, so i have no idea about it, but I thought a tempest would be a good cleric to try, since I enjoy being either a combatant or a blaster, and the tempest cleric seems to be able to do both well.

Edit: typos

[micahaphone]

What level are you starting at? Generally speaking, spell casting will be more important than melee fighting, especially as you go up in levels. Once you hit level 5, your improved power cantrips and lack of multi attack will make you rarely hit stuff. Level 8 gives a bump to your melee, but that still seems more of a fall back for damage, only after you've got spirit guardians and spiritual weapon up and running.

[Anthiondel]

What level are you starting at? Generally speaking, spell casting will be more important than melee fighting, especially as you go up in levels. Once you hit level 5, your improved power cantrips and lack of multi attack will make you rarely hit stuff. Level 8 gives a bump to your melee, but that still seems more of a fall back for damage, only after you've got spirit guardians and spiritual weapon up and running.

Lvl1 :( which sucks. The lvl8 ability only works on weapon attacks, so I thought of either dipping storm sorcerer or take magic initiate to get booming blade

[KorvinStarmast]

Lvl1 :( which sucks. Tempest Cleric does not suck at level 1.
If your DM will allow it, go Water Genasi. (And its thematic as well).
Heavy Armor and a martial weapon like a war hammer, sacred flame verus undead, and some neat Domain features, and a superb domain spell (fog cloud) always prepared at level 1.
Salt Marsh is built to start at level 1; embrace it.

Tempest Cleric is still a cleric. Boost Wisdom.
You can get by with 13 or 14 strength. I learned to keep a few javelins handy for ranged weapon attacks; seemed to be a bit more reliable than sacred flame but YMMV.
If you are using point buy:
S 14 D 10 C 14+2 I 10 Wis 15+1 Ch 8 gets you
S 14 D 10 C 16 I 10 Wis 16 Ch 8. (you could go 12+2 wisdom and put some points elsewhere, up to you).

And if a hill dwarf drowned his sorrows in beer, he's an aquatic race. :smallbiggrin:
There Are Dwarves In Salt Marsh in this edition's campaign. They are running a local mine a few miles down the road from Salt Marsh.
(EE Players Companion has this on the Water Genasi. )
From Pages 9 and 10 of the Elemental Evil Players COmpanion (Free at WoTC web site)

Genasi Traits
Ability Score Increase. Your Constitution score increases by 2.
Size. Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Primordial.
Water Genasi
The lapping of waves, the spray of sea foam on the wind, the ocean depths—all of these things call to your heart. You wander freely and take pride in your independence, though others might consider you selfish. Most water genasi look as if they just finished bathing, with beads of moisture collecting on their skin and hair. They smell of fresh rain and clean water. Blue or green skin is common, and most have somewhat overlarge eyes, blue-black in color. A water genasi’s hair might float freely, swaying and waving as if underwater. Some have voices with undertones reminiscent of whale song
or trickling streams.
Ability Score Increase. Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Acid Resistance. You have resistance to acid damage.
Amphibious. You can breathe air and water.
Swim. You have a swimming speed of 30 feet.
Call to the Wave. You know the shape water cantrip (see chapter 2). When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the create or destroy water spell as a 2nd-level spell once with this trait, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

[Anthiondel]

Tempest Cleric does not suck at level 1.
If your DM will allow it, go Water Genasi. (And its thematic as well).
Heavy Armor and a martial weapon like a war hammer, sacred flame verus undead, and some neat Domain features, and a superb domain spell (fog cloud) always prepared at level 1.
Salt Marsh is built to start at level 1; embarce it.
(EE Players Companion has this on the Water Genasi.

Tempest Cleric is still a cleric. Boost Wisdom.
You can get by with 13 or 14 strength. I learned to keep a few javelins handy for ranged weapon attacks; seemed to be a bit more reliable than sacred flame but YMMV.

And if a hill dwarf drowned his sorrows in beer, he's an aquatic race. :smallbiggrin:
There Are Dwarves In Salt Marsh in this edition's campaign. They are running a local mine a few miles down the road from Salt Marsh.
About that Water Genasi.
From Pages 9 and 10 of the Elemental Evil Players COmpanion (Free at WoTC web site)

What sucks is lvl1, I just hate playing before lvl3, a fly can kill you if uou're unlucky

[KorvinStarmast]

What sucks is lvl1, I just hate playing before lvl3, a fly can kill you if uou're unlucky Pool your resources as a party (all the spare gold after initial equipping) have a few healing potions purchased before you head out for the first adventure. (I think they are for sale at Winston's general store at PHB prices, in Salt Marsh)
That's my suggestion. Have fun. :smallsmile:

[CTurbo]

I agree with Water Genasi and your main 2 goals need to be boosting Wisdom and maximizing concentration saves with Warcaster and/or Res(Con)

Start 15 Str for Plate armor and leave it there. If you happen to get a free feat or something Heavy Armor Mastery is good and would round up your Str to 16.

I'm not sure how the Thunder and Lightning spells work underwater. I guess Call Lightning still works?

[KorvinStarmast]

Start 15 Str for Plate armor and leave it there. If you happen to get a free feat or something Heavy Armor Mastery is good and would round up your Str to 16.
Not sure I agree with that. You won't get plate armor until tier 2 if the treasure piles I am seeing as DM in Salt Marsh are any indication. But at about the time one can afford the plate armor, the feat for HAM will compete with an ASI for Wis. Boost WIS is always my suggestion.
(Your post was a good one).

As to call lightning underwater: sadly, our Tempest cleric had to bail out due to that DC 30 which is Real Life. So I don't know how Call Lightning works under water, since we never got there.

[CTurbo]

Not sure I agree with that. You won't get plate armor until tier 2 if the treasure piles I am seeing as DM in Salt Marsh are any indication. But at about the time one can afford the plate armor, the feat for HAM will compete with an ASI for Wis. Boost WIS is always my suggestion.
(Your post was a good one).

As to call lightning underwater: sadly, our Tempest cleric had to bail out due to that DC 30 which is Real Life. So I don't know how Call Lightning works under water, since we never got there.

Well yeah I'd only take HAM if I could get it for free at the start. Remember Splint armor also requires Str15 and that should be easy to come by in the early levels.

[LudicSavant]

Planning a tempest cleric for a nautical campaign (saltmarsh) and the DM suggested us to pick "aquatic" races.

What's more important on a tempest cleric? Better wis or better attack stat (dex/str)?

I never play clerics, so i have no idea about it, but I thought a tempest would be a good cleric to try, since I enjoy being either a combatant or a blaster, and the tempest cleric seems to be able to do both well.

Edit: typos

Better Wisdom is more important. In fact, if you're so inclined, you can just ignore your attack stat entirely and use Toll the Dead if you need a resourceless whack, Divine Strike be damned.

[Laserlight]

What sucks is lvl1, I just hate playing before lvl3, a fly can kill you if uou're unlucky

Yeah, but L1 only lasts a minute. Don't worry about it.

Your attack stat is WIS. You need enough STR and DEX to have a good armor class, but that's it. If you pump either one at the expense of WIS, you'll regret it come L5.

[CBAnaesthesia]

I'm not sure how the Thunder and Lightning spells work underwater. I guess Call Lightning still works?

Haven't seen any rules in 5e obviously, but the AD&D Wizard's Handbook had rules for casting underwater. Thunder damage didn't exist back then but Lightning spells were generally upgraded underwater (except that Chain Lightning didn't arc, just did way more damage).

[Snails]

Tempest Cleric is really, really good at low level, perhaps even OP.

Go for high Wis.

Bragging rights:
#1 Wrath of the Storm is an autohit for someone who hits you, and at low level it can kill an opponent. In terms of Action Economy, this can be a huge boon, and it hardly takes any brains to use effectively.
#2 Thunderwave is a very nice spell at low level. Not as much damage as Burning Hands, but a good area and fun side effect.
#3 Martial weapons and heavy armor -- makes you robust and useful, even without using spells
#4 Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath + Shatter = a poor man's Fireball at character level 3!!!.

This is really one of the easiest PCs to play effectively for low levels.

BTW, if you like think of your PC as a meleeist, high Wis works fine, because you are going to rely on Spiritual Weapon as your second attack. And high Wis preserves the usefulness of Wrath of the Storm for a wee bit.

[Sorinth]

I'll second Water Genasi. The con boost is nice to help you with concentration, the wis boost is great, and I'm sure the swim speed will come in handy.

If you go with a melee build, you'll want a decent Str or Dex but probably not at the expense of Wisdom.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Water Genasi Tempest Grappler

Anything that doesn't have gills (or breathes underwater) is going to drown.


Edit: Once Goldberg tackled a pirate king off his ship into water and dragged him down (I was in heavy armor). I let go and then fried him with lightning as I swam back up.

His crew gave up.

[LudicSavant]

The choices for races with a Swim speed and a Wis boost are:

Half-Elf w/ SCAG variant: Aquatic Elf Descent +2 Cha / +1 Wis / +1 Any. Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and +4 total stat boost instead of +3 (although Charisma isn't a wonderful stat for you).
Simic Hybrid: +2 Con / +1 Wis. Darkvision, and your choice of Grappling Appendages and Carapace (both of these are useful, Acid Spit is terrible). Carapace will let you have at least as much AC as a Str build while reaping all the benefits of investing in Dexterity instead. Grappling Appendages will allow you to grapple people as a bonus action while still keeping your hands free. In fact, you can potentially grapple 3 people at a time while holding a shield.
Water Genasi +2 Con / +1 Wis. Kinda thin on features, with the only things that really matter being the Shape Water cantrip and Acid Resistance. Also, no Darkvision!
Lizardfolk: +2 Con / +1 Wis and two extra skill proficiencies are about the extent of the useful features here. Hungry Jaws barely moves the needle on offense and defense, and the rest are ribbons. Also, no Darkvision!

As you can see, basically all of your choices will let you boost Con, so that really shouldn't be the deciding factor for you. The only reason to really consider Water Genasi (besides flavor) is if you really want that Shape Water cantrip.


Water Genasi Tempest Grappler

Anything that doesn't have gills (or breathes underwater) is going to drown.

Simic Hybrid is just a better version of this.

[prototype00]

See if you can blag a Wand of Lightning Bolts (I did so in AL) and then just walk around in the heaviest armor with the best shield you can find and you will be a walking Tesla Cannon from Red Alert.

Also: note, RAW, you can decide to max the damage on your lightning bolts after you see whether the enemy saved according to the timing of actions (damage is rolled after saving throws)

[KorvinStarmast]

Simic Hybrid is just a better version of this. But if the DM doesn't have the book that has Simid Hybrid in it, it's not an option. (Ravnica?)
I like your points on Half Elf Tempest Cleric. The extra skills do not hurt.

[Emongnome777]

But if the DM doesn't have the book that has Simid Hybrid in it, it's not an option. (Ravnica?)
I like your points on Half Elf Tempest Cleric. The extra skills do not hurt.

Note that the aquatic sub-race loses the 2 skills.

I second all the tempest cleric suggestions. You can add tortle to the list of race options. No swim speed, but can hold their breath for a while. The +2 to Str is nice if you plan to swing a weapon, but the bonus Con from other races is probably more helpful overall.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Simic Hybrid is just a better version of this.

Don't have that book.

Water Genasi has been a fun race to use.

[Alucard89]

The best for Tempest Cleric is to take Variant Human and start with Spell Sniper: Booming Blade feat. You can then attack with Glaive 10 feat away with Booming Blade attached.

Then take WarCaster at level 4 and +2 WIS at level 8 and 12. At start you don't need +2 WIS that fast because your spell DC is low anyway due to low proficiency bonus. WarCaster + BB + Spirit Guardians + 10 feet reach + your class feature with pushing enemies away or dealing maximum damage will make your really strong in being pokey and CC at the same time.

That's how I would build Tempest.

[KorvinStarmast]

The best for Tempest Cleric is to take Variant Human and start with Spell Sniper: Booming Blade feat. You can then attack with Glaive 10 feat away with Booming Blade attached.

Then take WarCaster at level 4 and +2 WIS at level 8 and 12. At start you don't need +2 WIS that fast because your spell DC is low anyway due to low proficiency bonus. WarCaster + BB + Spirit Guardians + 10 feet reach + your class feature with pushing enemies away or dealing maximum damage will make your really strong in being pokey and CC at the same time.

That's how I would build Tempest. Did you actually play this starting at level 1?

Mind you, the build that you propose is an intriguing idea, but I found that playing a tempest cleric from 1 forward (our game didn't do feats until level 4) that a wisdom boost was important for a variety of spells to be effective. Control spells like command and hold person benefit from the Spell DC being a bit higher, as does Spirit Guardian. And spiritual weapon.
Spell save DC at level 1-4: 13. Not fantastic, but decent.
Spell save DC at level 5: 15. Significantly better.
Likewise with spell attack: +5 at level 1-4, +7 at level 5.

[Alucard89]

Did you actually play this starting at level 1?

Mind you, the build that you propose is an intriguing idea, but I found that playing a tempest cleric from 1 forward (our game didn't do feats until level 4) that a wisdom boost was important for a variety of spells to be effective.

Till level 9 only but yes, it's very popular build. Works really well with Tempest. Nor that I think Tempest is good. There are better domains. But this worked just fine.

You starting DC is 13. 14 at level 4 won't change much. 14 to 15 at level 5 also. I find your should really start to worry about DC once you are in range around 16. That is just my startegy. Before I try to focus on reliable damage instead of unreliable cantrips or save spells.

[KorvinStarmast]

Till level 9 only but yes, it's very popular build. Works really well with Tempest. Nor that I think Tempest is good. There are better domains. But this worked just fine.

You starting DC is 13. 14 at level 4 won't change much. 14 to 15 at level 5 also. I find your should really start to worry about DC once you are in range around 16. That is just my startegy. Before I try to focus on reliable damage instead of unreliable cantrips or save spells. Interesting. Adding 2 to AC with a shield strikes me as a better idea if one is beginning at level 1, but I can see the appeal of reach if you fight in a lot of tight spaces (like on ships!) and can keep to the back row.

[Reynaert]

I've also run a tempest cleric water genasi, but mine was a dex build with rapier+shield for decent AC (and a shield can be your holy symbol).
The wrath made me wade into battle, hoping to get hit so I could do my cool wrath ability (maximized from level 2), which actually took a bit for the first hit to land. Even longer after the opponents got wise and started hitting others instead of me.. :P

Also, high AC and wading into the thick really meshes well with thunderwave. Also maximizable.

And don't forget the initiative bonus from going dex over str, going earlier with your one-time big maximized hitter is a damn good thing.

[CTurbo]

I DO think Tempest is the best domain, and it's definitely my favorite. I've played a bunch of different Tempests and by far the most effective is one that focuses on Wis and passing Con saves, but you CAN build a Str focused melee Tempest and have fun with it. The Spell Sniper+Booming Blade+PAM+Warcaster combo really does work pretty well, but it comes at the cost of not being able to keep concentration on your best spells like Bless and Spirit Guardians as well as having a lower save DC. Enemies are going to pass their saves more often when you try to drop a maximized Shatter or Call Lightning.

The Tempest that focuses on Wis and Con saves is going to heavily outdamage the Booming Blade melee Tempest, and that's even with taking the Dodge Action half the time.

Anyway, it's all about having fun though and you can have fun with a melee Tempest.

[da newt]

Triton is also a race option (but no WIS bonus).

[saucerhead]

My first 5E character was a hill dwarf tempest cleric modelled after Durkon. He was really fun to play, and the extra hit points and poison resistance from hill dwarf race helped.

[Theodoxus]

I DO think Tempest is the best domain, and it's definitely my favorite. I've played a bunch of different Tempests and by far the most effective is one that focuses on Wis and passing Con saves, but you CAN build a Str focused melee Tempest and have fun with it. The Spell Sniper+Booming Blade+PAM+Warcaster combo really does work pretty well, but it comes at the cost of not being able to keep concentration on your best spells like Bless and Spirit Guardians as well as having a lower save DC. Enemies are going to pass their saves more often when you try to drop a maximized Shatter or Call Lightning.

The Tempest that focuses on Wis and Con saves is going to heavily outdamage the Booming Blade melee Tempest, and that's even with taking the Dodge Action half the time.

Anyway, it's all about having fun though and you can have fun with a melee Tempest.

I feel this way about Life clerics. Every time I think about branching out to Tempest or Nature to play with their niche builds (T&L shenanigans and Shillelagh, respectively) I just end up going back to Life anyway... I think it's my deeply ingrained Healer complex...