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Greybird
2020-04-22, 11:58 AM
Man, pen-and-paper has been unkind to me lately. As of this month I've been GMing for 30 years(!). I've run games in probably 15 or 20 different systems. For the last couple of years I've been dealing with a lot of GM burnout. It isn't the usual GM burnout, though. This is GM-Meta-Burnout! I've done the usual stuff that's worked for decades. I've taken GMing breaks. I've tried new campaigns. I've tried new systems, jumping from D&D to Torg: Eternity to Pathfinder 2 just in the past year. I've switched up genres. Then I get the fire in my belly and love the brainstorming, but as soon as I commit with my players and sit down to start working on a game, though, BAM! Any enthusiasm dies, and it dies hard. I want to GM. I love GMing. I love the moment to moment expression of the craft. But at the same time I've found myself miserable.

I've spent many hours over the past few weeks analyzing myself, my last few years worth of games, and this is what I've figured out:

1. The thing I've noticed I have the biggest negative reaction to is the technical side of the games. I don't enjoy elaborate systems anymore. I no longer enjoy the math. And forcing myself to do all of this makes me absolutely miserable.

This wouldn't be a problem, except for one thing: I'm a very technically minded person. I don't know any other way to function. Everything I do is in a series of organized systems, from my budget to grocery shopping to taking a shower. Throw a handful of junk on the floor and I sort and organize it in my mind as soon as I see it, involuntarily. And as I've gotten older, this tendency toward technical thought has grown more and more pronounced. This has caused my attempt to play non-technical systems (mostly Powered by the Apocalypse games - Dungeon World, Masks) to end in disaster. I don't know how to think that way.

2. For the last decade I've mostly run pre-written content. I realize now that this has contributed to the problem, as it has turned RPGs from being a creative outlet and an exercise in imagination into an exercise in memorization. I've now come to understand that this has sucked a *lot* of the joy out.

Most of the time, the solution would be obvious: Go back to writing my own content. That's a problem, though. As I mentioned above, I'm no longer enjoying the technical elements of the games. I don't want to deal with the rules and math involved in writing and balancing session. I absolutely want the imaginative, creative elements, but the framework for implementing those things is killing me.

And the solution to that should be obvious, too: Play a system without the heavy technical elements. But see the part after #1. I've never had much luck without a technical framework to rely on. I tend to get very lost, very quickly. My instinct when struck by a situation is to figure out which rule applies. If there is none, I draw a blank, which makes me nervous, which makes me draw even more blanks. As I said before, my attempts to run systems like Powered by the Apocalypse have been disasters. I really do understand how their systems work, but in practice it is like writer's block with everyone waiting for me. Constantly.

And this is all terribly unfair to my players who try to get invested in my games only to have me burn out and either run mediocre sessions or switch systems yet again. This goes doubly when they invest in a system, buying rulebooks, studying rules, and so forth. I feel terribly guilty any time the burnout hits because I'm letting down long-time friends. Taking an extended break around here would probably mean the end of the group. Only one other person really GMs, and my impression is that he doesn't want the job long-term. And in a town of ~4,000 people located between two cows and a cornfield finding decent players makes finding a group in a city look like a cakewalk. Taking an extended break would probably mean giving up the hobby completely at this point, which I have no desire to do.

Short version: I'm a long-time GM who is losing the fun because he can no longer take joy in the technical aspects of the game while at the same time being locked by his nature into a technical mindset that makes non-technical games very difficult to run. And yet I still love and need the creative elements that you can't really find anywhere else, and don't want to give up the hobby.

Unfortunately, I've thought myself into a circle on this one. My nature is such that I have trouble running loose games, but loose games are the only thing that suit my needs, except that my nature is such that I... you get the idea.

I'm too close to the problem, and I'm getting stuck in a vicious cycle. I'd appreciate any insights.

Just a point for those that glossed over it: I have already taken GMing breaks, and yes, I was running PbtA correctly. ;)

kyoryu
2020-04-22, 12:29 PM
I was running PbtA correctly. ;)

I wouldn't worry about "correct". I'd worry about "am I running it in a way that supports me and my group?"

The only time I worry about running a system "correctly" is when people run into problems (thus, the game is not supporting them and their group) that would be resolved if they actually did follow the instructions.

Pleh
2020-04-22, 12:33 PM
It sounds like you need more than a break. It sounds like you need a full Sabbatical. Full disclosure, I'm not an expert and I've only been alive 30 years, much less been playing or DMing that long. But I've seen friends exhibit these symptoms around other occupations. When short vacations and breaks aren't enough to fully rest, it usually means you need to upgrade to a full on sabbatical.

30 years is a long time to be doing anything. Taking a Break often means you still do some less stressful prep work in your off time, and usually on the timescale of a matter of months at most.

A Sabbatical is to a Break what a Long Rest is to a Short Rest. In a Sabbatical, you intentionally DO NO THINGS that are related to the subject of your sabbatical. Get away from forums and videos talking about it. Stop researching and thinking about it in your off time. Dedicate the largest time off that you feel you can bring yourself to commit to (you probably need a longer sabbatical than you feel you can afford). Replace the time you would have spent on the subject of your sabbatical with other things. You are erasing it from your life for a short time to fully rest and reboot your muscles that do this function until they are fully recovered. When an interesting or novel concept pops in your mind and excites you, you should work to let it go and not write it down or record it. Indulging the thought isn't giving your brain and your heart a break.

Just like with Rest mechanics, if you interrupt the rest before it finishes, you will likely receive no benefit and waste the time spent.

Now, one of the big risks of taking this much time off is losing people in your group and watching the schedule get gobbled up with other events. If it's not too similar an activity, you might be able to have the group switch to more traditional board games or video game LAN or online parties. Find a reason to keep the time slot with activities that everyone enjoys, but allows you to fully disconnect from this activity long enough to hard reboot the system.

I know you were saying you've taken breaks before and wanted more advice than taking more breaks, but I think in the case of heavy burnout, if a break isn't helping, you aren't taking enough of a break. It's not giving up on the hobby, it's self care to make sure you can continue doing this for another 30 years.

kyoryu
2020-04-22, 12:55 PM
So, here's a question:

When running a game like AW, how does the scenario play out that causes you to block?

Player: "Alright, I go over to confront Bruiser in his gang's lair."

and then you say or think....

Anxe
2020-04-22, 01:13 PM
I think Pleh's advice is pretty good. It might mean you have board game or movie nights with your friends instead for a year or so, but if that makes you happier...

You could also try bringing in a co-DM to help out with the parts of the process that you don't enjoy. Then you could experience a piece of it from the player side as well with a "DMPC"

Zarrgon
2020-04-22, 01:16 PM
Maybe you need to move to the middle?

I've been DMing forever too, and the bit that has kept me hooked is the middle path: Fluff Role Playing supported with Crunch Mechanics behind the game play.

I do the Old School way that the Rules are just Suggestions. The more 0E, 1E, 2E and 5E mindset. And I mostly game with players that agree with that mindset...or don't really know the rules at all.

Some of my greatest games of all time were with clueless players. Players that really did not know much of the game rules other then some vague basics. And it can make for a whole new game experience. The players character is wounded, so they drink a potion of healing...what do they roll...eh..1d10, 1d20, 2d12...eh, just pick one. The player has no idea what the ''official rules" say, they just change the HP on their character sheet. And they never ever whine and complain about ''consistency" or any other such silly thing. Even with players that know the rules, they simply don't care and let things roll. Did that potion cure 2d10 damage...ok, it did, and keep playing the game.

Players have their characters just try to do things. They don't ask ''if" they can try something, and they don't look up the rules...they just have the character do something.

Maybe such a game style would work for you?

kyoryu
2020-04-22, 03:07 PM
Players have their characters just try to do things. They don't ask ''if" they can try something, and they don't look up the rules...they just have the character do something.

Maybe such a game style would work for you?

That's the default style of old-school D&D, as well as a number of newer games. I'd argue that Fate and PbtA games are both intended to work primarily that way.

icefractal
2020-04-22, 03:37 PM
It sounds like your style is more suited to concrete/ahead-of-time systems than improv, but that doesn't have to mean heavily crunchy / heavy prep. A couple possibilities:

1) Mid-crunch systems like Savage Worlds.
2) Crunchy systems with a lot of pre-made content (like PF), and then remix that content (ex: reflavor existing monster stats) rather than building everything from scratch.
3) Asymetric systems that are crunchier on the player side, but simple (but concrete) on the GM side. Numenara is like this I think?

Greybird
2020-04-22, 03:55 PM
So, here's a question:

When running a game like AW, how does the scenario play out that causes you to block?

Player: "Alright, I go over to confront Bruiser in his gang's lair."

and then you say or think....

Honestly? Nothing. What my brain does is look for is the hard, predefined rule that says, in specific terms, what happens next (likely defined by a rule, a modifier, and a dice roll), and AW lacks those specifics, derailing my thought process. It's been several years since I've played and I've forgotten the nuances or I'd give you a better explanation. But FWIW, I did study all of the standard advice and had a solid understanding of the way the system is supposed to flow, but my brain just isn't wired to flow that way.

kyoryu
2020-04-22, 04:36 PM
Honestly? Nothing. What my brain does is look for is the hard, predefined rule that says, in specific terms, what happens next (likely defined by a rule, a modifier, and a dice roll), and AW lacks those specifics, derailing my thought process. It's been several years since I've played and I've forgotten the nuances or I'd give you a better explanation. But FWIW, I did study all of the standard advice and had a solid understanding of the way the system is supposed to flow, but my brain just isn't wired to flow that way.

Yeah it sounds like you're just not really comfortable with just making stuff up on the fly - you want structure or rules or pre-written stuff there to use as justification.

Which is cool. It's probably something you could work on if you wanted to, but if you don't you don't.

The problem is that most pre-written material seems to be written for more rules-heavy systems.

Kaptin Keen
2020-04-22, 05:39 PM
There is a type of fatigue, I think.

Like you, OP, I've GM'd for 30+ years. And my friends don't want me to GM anymore. No one comes right out and says so, bless their hearts, but the enthusiasm has slowly died off. And that's not surprising. And it's no one's fault, either. I have not, over the years, fallen off as a GM - they have not, over the years, decided they don't like me.

But undeniably, I have a certain style, I play in a certain way - and after 30 years, I'm no longer surprising them. They've trod most of the pathways of my mind, seen what they hide. I cannot trick them anymore.

And I know for a fact it's not that I've become a bad GM (arguably, I was never good - but I am, and was, good at a certain type of play), because when I play with other people ... everything still works.

That's the fatigue: Me, and that group of friends ... with us, the magic has worn off.

It held for a really long time, though. That's frankly pretty impressive, and something I consider a triumph.

denthor
2020-04-23, 01:22 PM
Take a break only play

Quertus
2020-04-23, 01:49 PM
So… how do you feel about…

Having a co-GM?

Telling us some of your story ideas?

Having a rotating GM?

2e D&D?

1-shots?

Nonsense games?

The answers may help us generate ideas more suited to your particulars. (Myself, I have a lot of experience with 2e, and therefore find it easiest to build "crunch" to match my ideas in that system).

-----

Recently, I went back and looked at an old video game I own, that has a map editor. I found an old folder of maps I made years ago. I looked forward to playing them again - I could still remember several really cool maps, and the rest would doubtless be pleasant surprises once I recognized them in play.

Not surprisingly, the first few maps were rough - the style was all over the place, and I was clearly still learning what I was doing. But there were dozens and dozens of maps that I made after I hit my stride. Thing is, the maps that I vividly remember as being awesome (and agree with that assessment, playing back through them)? Almost all of them are among those first few rough maps. Once I knew what I was doing, and what I liked, I made a lot of "really good" maps… that followed the same samey formula, the same recipe of producing what I knew I liked. They were good, and lacked the rough edges… but they weren't memorable. They weren't special.

If, like me, you are good at running a "technically accurate" game, then maybe this story will be helpful for you. Maybe it will help you reflect on just what it was that you found most enjoyable in your games.

Friv
2020-04-23, 08:25 PM
A lot of folk have given good advice, so I'm going to try a system suggestion - have you looked at Blades In The Dark? It combines the simple mechanics and resolution of Powered by the Apocalypse with a much more structured gameplay approach that might help you out on the technical minded side.

kyoryu
2020-04-24, 09:45 AM
Honestly? Nothing. What my brain does is look for is the hard, predefined rule that says, in specific terms, what happens next (likely defined by a rule, a modifier, and a dice roll), and AW lacks those specifics, derailing my thought process. It's been several years since I've played and I've forgotten the nuances or I'd give you a better explanation. But FWIW, I did study all of the standard advice and had a solid understanding of the way the system is supposed to flow, but my brain just isn't wired to flow that way.

Have you considered some freeform online roleplay? Taking away all the rules might help you to develop those muscles. So might playing something like Storium, which is like half a step from freeform.

So, here's how I'd approach the "you go to the gang boss' hideout" thing.

What do I know about the hideout? Let's assume nothing. Okay, fine. Well, what do I know about the world? What do I imagine a hideout looks like in this world? Cool. Okay, for flavor, is there one thing that I can either exaggerate or flip? Do it. Is there a real world place I can use as a model? If so, do that.

Why are the players there? What do they want? What's in their way? Who wants something else? What happens if they don't get what they want?

Most of it is just asking questions about why the players are going there, and extrapolating from stuff you know. Another piece is then figuring out what you *need* to be there, and figuring out how to add it.

And the biggest thing is just giving your permission to say "because I said so". You don't need justification for the hideout to be the thing you imagine it to be. It just is.

PopeLinus1
2020-04-24, 10:05 AM
Honestly, I've been getting tired of DMing recently, and I haven't been doing it for a tenth of the time you have. Being able to carry an entire world on your shoulders is exhilarating until your knees buckle.

CombatBunny
2020-04-29, 01:45 PM
Buy and read this book, you can finish it in a couple of hours.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/106247/Play-Unsafe

It can help your brain to be on the right mind-set for more rules-light kind of play. It seems that you have been 'playing safe' for far too long.

LordCdrMilitant
2020-04-29, 04:31 PM
My take on this is to take a step back and play in a game to deal with GM burnout.

Being able to step back from the work and just show up and have fun with all the aspects of the system, from the mechanical side of building your own character to the roleplaying side, has, in my experience, gone a long way to heal the general burnout on GM'ing, while simultaneously giving you loads of new ideas and things to do and looking forward to the next time you run.

Taffimai
2020-05-13, 05:32 PM
I'm afraid there's little advice to offer other than taking a longer break or trying something else. In the latter category, have you tried games without a DM? Fiasco, for example, or cooperative board games such as Eldritch Horror?

kyoryu
2020-05-13, 05:40 PM
Buy and read this book, you can finish it in a couple of hours.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/106247/Play-Unsafe

It can help your brain to be on the right mind-set for more rules-light kind of play. It seems that you have been 'playing safe' for far too long.

Also the Lazy DM guides (there's two of them now)

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/108572/The-Lazy-Dungeon-Master

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/251431/Return-of-the-Lazy-Dungeon-Master

Hand_of_Vecna
2020-05-15, 02:04 PM
I wouldn't worry about "correct". I'd worry about "am I running it in a way that supports me and my group?

I can second this, I'm a recent convert to Dungeon World, but my group doesn't "run DW right". We (multiple people run games) tend to have a lot more story beats planned than is intended either having several set piece encounters, a deck or table of random encounters and one planned set peice, or a module for a traditional game we've read through and are adapting mostly at the table. The players still get lots of opportunities to add to the fiction.

On dedicated dungeonworld forums I've tended to get a lot of pushback being told we're doing it wrong, bit it works for our group.

Chauncymancer
2020-05-18, 01:42 AM
Greybird, if you had a magic wand, would you rather wave it to reignite your passion for complex technical systems, or wave it to develop an intuition for improvisation? You can get off the spiral at more than one place, but I think you've got to pick a place to get off.

Mr Beer
2020-05-18, 03:18 AM
Take a longer break. Don't allow yourself to run a game again for a year. Do other stuff, like playing in other people's games or something completely different.

kyoryu
2020-05-18, 10:15 AM
Greybird, if you had a magic wand, would you rather wave it to reignite your passion for complex technical systems, or wave it to develop an intuition for improvisation? You can get off the spiral at more than one place, but I think you've got to pick a place to get off.

I think this is the key question.

Melayl
2020-05-18, 09:48 PM
Have you thought about creating your own gaming system?

I thing answering the question in the post or two before mine is the real key, though.