Shadow Blade... Can we talk about this?

[Drache64]

So the spell shadow blade is tempting for my Shadow Sorcerer thematically. I like the idea that my Sorcerer can cast darkness using 2 SP so he can hide in there and cast Firebolt at everything mixed with scortching ray when the time arises. (I'm level 4).

Pros:
though Shadow blade would be really cool ("My eyes turn black, I reach into my sleeve and draw the darkness out like a blade!"), and I like its damage coupled with my 18 Dex (2d8+4 especially mixed with Green-Flame Blade), I like that it is 1 spell for really good persistent damage (10 rounds of 3d8+4 with Green-Flame Blade at higher levels).

Cons:
My HP is pitiful (26) though I could use False Life to mitigate this that is a lot of spells to justify this (Mage Armor, Shadow Blade, False Life), Also I can no longer hide in my darkness (Both are concentration spells).

This would almost be a no brainier if Shadow Blade was not concentration but alas it is. Matthew Mercer's Dual Focused feat would allow me to focus on both spells but you must use action each round to focus on both spells so that doesn't really let me use the weapon.

All in all, I think I should wait until I am level 8 and can pick up the toughness feat or something to justify my being in close combat, for now I think I would be better off using misty step to just get out of close combat... What do you guys think, is there another angle I should consider?

[Segev]

I hate to say it, but you're probably better off with a similar investment in dual-wielding short swords or daggers or something you're proficient with, and staying in your darkness. Sorcerer by itself doesn't make a great gish. You'd need multiclassing to really pull it off. Rogue or paladin would do it.

Consider that toll the dead will catch up or outpace it for damage after level 5, too.

[BloodBrandy]

Personally, I would say the spell is more meant for Eldritch Knights (Who can attack multiple times with it, and work it well with War Magic and Eldritch Strike) and Arcane Tricksters (Boost their damage, make the Sneak Attack a rarely resisted damage type, and auto advantage in dim light or darkness to make Sneak Attack even easier to do), maybe certain Warlocks. You would probably want more than just the Toughness feat but Warcaster as well to keep the spell going better (As well as the chance to use it with Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade for AoO).

For a Sorcerer...Well it can be useful, but I wouldn't say it's good for a full on sorcerer, as squishy as they tend to be. For full casters it's probably better on Bladesinger or War wizards

[Aussiehams]

Is it even worth it for Arcane Tricksters? I'm planning out my build, and it seems that with so few spell slots and such a short duration, it might not be worth it.
I guess it depends if my DM gives me a magic weapon or not.

[Drache64]

Is it even worth it for Arcane Tricksters? I'm planning out my build, and it seems that with so few spell slots and such a short duration, it might not be worth it.
I guess it depends if my DM gives me a magic weapon or not.

Most combats don't last more than 1 minute and it's a BA to cast. The idea is to cast it in combat and keep it going with Warcaster or something. Use it only on boss combats, not in every combat all the time.

[pr4wn]

Shadow Blade should be great for a Shadow Sorcerer... But it's not. :smallfrown:

Compared to the other 2nd level Blade spell (Flame Blade), Druids get the shaft even worse.

See if your DM is OK with the rule of cool. Maybe you can cast Darkness with 2 SP and see through it, 3 SP, see through it and it doesn't take your concentration. Or something similar...

I wish it was easier to combine it with what seems like what it should work with. I also wish you could make more than one attack with Flame Blade... :smallsigh: I would love to do a Ranger/Druid that could make two attacks with that...

Talk to your DM, maybe you can work something out that allows for the rule of cool, but doesn't completely unbalance the game.

-pr4wn

[BloodBrandy]

Is it even worth it for Arcane Tricksters? I'm planning out my build, and it seems that with so few spell slots and such a short duration, it might not be worth it.
I guess it depends if my DM gives me a magic weapon or not.

I would say so. it's an illusion, so it doesn't count against your non-Enchantment/Illusion list, It's both thrown and finesse so it can sneak attack, Sneak Attack damage is based off the weapon type so all your SA damage would be psychic, which isn't the least resisted damage type, but it's up there, you automatically have advantage in dim light or darkness, and you can cast it as a bonus action then use Booming or Greenflame Blade for added hurt.

Yes, it's duration is seemingly short, but one minute is 10 rounds of battle, which can be a good bit. But yeah, it's the sort of spell you save for an especially touch enemy.

[Drache64]

Shadow Blade should be great for a Shadow Sorcerer... But it's not. :smallfrown:

Compared to the other 2nd level Blade spell (Flame Blade), Druids get the shaft even worse.

See if your DM is OK with the rule of cool. Maybe you can cast Darkness with 2 SP and see through it, 3 SP, see through it and it doesn't take your concentration. Or something similar...

I wish it was easier to combine it with what seems like what it should work with. I also wish you could make more than one attack with Flame Blade... :smallsigh: I would love to do a Ranger/Druid that could make two attacks with that...

Talk to your DM, maybe you can work something out that allows for the rule of cool, but doesn't completely unbalance the game.

-pr4wn

Thanks! I will see what he says, I was thinking about the whole multi-attack thing and at higher levels I could use SP to cast Green Flame Blase as a BA and then use it again as an action giving me Multi-Attack.

[Misterwhisper]

Is it even worth it for Arcane Tricksters? I'm planning out my build, and it seems that with so few spell slots and such a short duration, it might not be worth it.
I guess it depends if my DM gives me a magic weapon or not.

I don’t like the idea that the spell has a verbal component.

Ideally it would be for when you can’t use your normal weapon like an infiltration or stealth situation.

However, hard to be stealthy when the spell requires you to talk.

Even worse is the spell silence, a spell to make you and the area silent, but you have to talk to do it.

[jmartkdr]

... maybe certain Warlocks...

Just pulling this part to say: you can absolutely build a warlock around shadow blade, but it makes for a different kind of warlock. It's only okay on a standard blastlock or a standard bladelock.

(All because it cannot be your Hex Warrior weapon, and it cannot be your Pact Blade, which means Thirsting Blade et al doesn't apply.)

[BloodBrandy]

Just pulling this part to say: you can absolutely build a warlock around shadow blade, but it makes for a different kind of warlock. It's only okay on a standard blastlock or a standard bladelock.

(All because it cannot be your Hex Warrior weapon, and it cannot be your Pact Blade, which means Thirsting Blade et al doesn't apply.)

No but it still triggers damage from your Hexblade Curse as well as well as Bestow Curse (Which doesn't need concentration when cast at 5th level). You can use it with Booming Blade as well, or Greenflame Blade for Celestial Warlocks. It seems like it's a good spell for a mid range Warlock who expects to sometimes end up in the thick of it, or perhaps an assassin Warlock making use of invocations like Mask of Many Faces. Not the typical build, no, but it's doable.

[JackPhoenix]

I don’t like the idea that the spell has a verbal component.

Ideally it would be for when you can’t use your normal weapon like an infiltration or stealth situation.

However, hard to be stealthy when the spell requires you to talk.

Even worse is the spell silence, a spell to make you and the area silent, but you have to talk to do it.

If you're fighting, you aren't stealthy anyway, so casting a spell with V component won't change much. If you're sneaking about, instead of talking your way into a guarded place, you don't need a weapon, and can use your normal weapon anyway. Silence isn't a spell you would cast in the middle of stealth mission, but you may cast it up-front to set up an ambush... it's immobile and it's got duration for that... or to screw up hostile spellcaster.

[saucerhead]

I'm unsure from the OP, are you multi-classed or single classed sorcerer? If you are MC, it's great. If not... stay out of melee? What kind of Dex do you have, maybe 14 or 15 at best? Low hit points, poor attack rolls and AC do not work in your favour. Thematically, it sounds cool, but they just aren't built for it.

[Vogie]

It'd be okay on a Stone Sorcerer, if UA is allowed.

It's not bad on a Shadow sorcerer, because there are situations where you simply can't use darkness... mostly enclosed spaces where you don't want to accidentally blind your teammates. It gives you a half decent option for AoOs.

It's great on ATs as it turns their sneak attack damage into psychic, can be thrown and reformed as a bonus action. Since it's a light weapon, Bladelocks of all styles will enjoy the hell out of it as an offhand weapon. EKs can could use it to "greatsword & shield", or as a 2d6 offhand weapon.

[Drache64]

I'm unsure from the OP, are you multi-classed or single classed sorcerer? If you are MC, it's great. If not... stay out of melee? What kind of Dex do you have, maybe 14 or 15 at best? Low hit points, poor attack rolls and AC do not work in your favour. Thematically, it sounds cool, but they just aren't built for it.

DM wanted us to have high stats because he is leveling us slowly and didn't want us to feel too limited (that's my guess anyways).

I have:
STR: 12
DEX: 18
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 20

So AC 17 with Mage armor, (22 with shield), HP 26 (level 4) but HP 36-39 with False Life at 2nd level (based on the d4 roll).

Going single class sorc, the idea is that my character stays in the back hiding in his darkness launching spells. But every so often I like the thrill of Melee. (just the thematic).

Perhaps I should Hide in the shadows, that spell slot for Shadow Blade is probably better spent just using misty step to teleport away, but rule of cool is what I am looking at (as long as it doesn't kill me).

Originally my character was a Mystic Wujen specializing in elemental and shadow spells, using some of his power to become a front liner when he needed to. I decided the Mystic was too powerful and I discovered the Variant Spell Casting of Spell Points (Pg 288 of DMG) and decided that's all I really wanted from the mystic (Point based casting pool), So for next week's game I am switching him to a Shadow Sorcerer. I want to sill fit the theme of my character without changing him completely (Shadow Sorc does almost everything my Mystic could, but is a bit more balanced).

[Lvl 2 Expert]

So the spell shadow blade is tempting for my Shadow Sorcerer thematically. I like the idea that my Sorcerer can cast darkness using 2 SP so he can hide in there and cast Firebolt at everything mixed with scortching ray when the time arises. (I'm level 4).
Personally I like to make an interesting character first and then try to make it work. If it doesn't work well enough, keep removing the least interesting details until it does.

If this blade would fit really well thematically, I'd be pretty adamant on working it in. Although waiting a few levels is certainly a good compromise option. If you find yourself trying to imagine how this works and the blade starts to look less and less appealing and more like something you should ditch it probably wasn't that thematically appropriate for your specific character in the first place.

[saucerhead]

Well having an 18 Dex is very nice after a maxed Chr. With +6 and advantage to hit, you can do some nice damage on a regular basis. You are right, Darkness cast with your Sorcery Points would really help with avoiding any retaliation, but you'd have to convince your DM about Dual Focused. That's also a lot of investment when you will be in a campaign that levels up slowly, and the low number of spells known might make Shadow Blade a low priority for a character that only occasionally gets into melee. Still, I get the appeal.:smallsmile:

[Misterwhisper]

If you're fighting, you aren't stealthy anyway, so casting a spell with V component won't change much. If you're sneaking about, instead of talking your way into a guarded place, you don't need a weapon, and can use your normal weapon anyway. Silence isn't a spell you would cast in the middle of stealth mission, but you may cast it up-front to set up an ambush... it's immobile and it's got duration for that... or to screw up hostile spellcaster.

If you are already in combat sure the V component won’t matter much.

There are plenty of times you can get in a place with no weapon, getting in is one thing, staying is completely different.

Ex if I am getting into a ball/meeting/whatever I may can sneak in, or lie my way in, or what have you but walking around with a short sword might look odd.

Silence is amazing in a stealth mission, perfect for taking someone out or using noisy tools without worrying but kind of pointless if you have to talk to cast it.

Ex. You somehow made it to your target but you have that one guy to get past and stealth won’t cut it, with silence you may can take them out without anyone knowing, or if you need to assassinate someone you could be long gone if nobody hears it.