Eloquence bard: Undeniable Logic and Concentration Saves

[Crucius]

Hey there,

Imagine an enemy spellcaster is concentrating on... idk... wall of fire. You, an eloquence bard use undeniable logic to deal some psychic damage to that spellcaster. That spellcaster then fails the intelligence saving throw and therefore has disadvantage on their next saving throw. Somewhere in here it should also make a constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the wall of fire.

My question is: When?

Does it make it after the whole thing, therefore it has disadvantage on the concentration save? Does it happen during the whole thing, therefore the concentration save is unaffected? Can the bard decide when for themselves (for example when he wants to follow up with a save or suck spell that would already make the spellcaster lose concentration)?

I know there isn't some kind of 'stack' in dnd, but I still want to be fair to my players and adjudicate this issue in a clear and (most importantly) predictable way.

[Warped Wiseman]

If I were the DM, I would rule that the enemy would make their constitution saving throw to maintain concentration with disadvantage. It would be similar to shield master, where the bonus action shove has to take place after attack action that enables it 'completes'.

[Forevaxp]

A recent thread called Special Actions, Order of Operations and one giant Elk discussed a similar situation. In Xanathar’s Guide, there’s an optional rule that states:


In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature's turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table - whether player or DM - who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.

It seems that the player gets to decide in what order the saves are applied

[firelistener]

If I were the DM, I would rule that the enemy would make their constitution saving throw to maintain concentration with disadvantage. It would be similar to shield master, where the bonus action shove has to take place after attack action that enables it 'completes'.

Same here. It reads to me as "take damage AND make a saving throw" indicating its simultaneous.