Hound of ill Omen vs Steel Defender

[Farias123]

Hello, so, I need to explain a few things before I start the thread: Our party has 6 people, but normally when we do sessions only 4 show up(the same 4, the another 2 are the Barbarians, lol), we're level 7 and I'm an Artificer Battle Smith 5/War Wizard 2.
For being a Battle Smith I have a Steel Defender that has 30 HP.
I'm starting this thread because last session on your campaign, the DM put us against a Shadow Sorcerer, and she spawned the hound of ill Omen, and I've lost the opportunity to do an epic dog battle because the Wild Magic Sorcerer killed him first. :(
Haha anyway, I've read about the Shadow Sorcerer and I realized that the maximum HP for the hound is 47, whereas for my Steel Defender is 107. So, taking into consideration the low cost to spawn the hound and the healing ability of the defender, and probably other things that I don't remember right now, which do you think is the better one, and which one do you think would win, as if it was a Pokemon battle and the Sorcerer keep respawning the hound and I keep using cure wounds on the defender? Also, which do you think is the best companion that you can gain from a class feature? Please only official content, not UA.

[AttilatheYeon]

Apples and oranges. The hound is more a way to impose disadvantage on the targets saves. So, if the 2 casters sit back and watch and only resummon or heal, the steel defender wins. But, that shouldn't be the contest. If the 2 casters use all there spells, the shadow sorc wins because debuffs/save or suck spells at disadvantage will rock the poor artificer.

[Farias123]

Apples and oranges. The hound is more a way to impose disadvantage on the targets saves. So, if the 2 casters sit back and watch and only resummon or heal, the steel defender wins. But, that shouldn't be the contest. If the 2 casters use all there spells, the shadow sorc wins because debuffs/save or suck spells at disadvantage will rock the poor artificer. Well, my Artificer is pretty tanky though haha, but I understand your point, the Defender has more life and heal, but it takes your bonus action to hit, and it deals less damage, but has a better damage type, but in a 1 on 1 the Defender imposes disadvantage to hit, and the Hound imposes disadvantage on saving throws, so I think it is balanced.

[BloodBrandy]

Apples and oranges. The hound is more a way to impose disadvantage on the targets saves. So, if the 2 casters sit back and watch and only resummon or heal, the steel defender wins. But, that shouldn't be the contest. If the 2 casters use all there spells, the shadow sorc wins because debuffs/save or suck spells at disadvantage will rock the poor artificer.

I feel like the issue with that is the Hound can only go after the target, Dis is only applied if the target is within 5ft, and if we are talking both at level 20, the Artificer can have Winged Boots (Replicate Magical Item) to keep out of the reach of the hound that can't fly. Yes, the Sorcerer could use Fly on the hound, but a bad Con save and it's downed.

Also, the artificer has 5 more attunement slots and have 5 other infused items in addition to any normal magical items they have.

[Farias123]

I feel like the issue with that is the Hound can only go after the target, Dis is only applied if the target is within 5ft, and if we are talking both at level 20, the Artificer can have Winged Boots (Replicate Magical Item) to keep out of the reach of the hound that can't fly. Yes, the Sorcerer could use Fly on the hound, but a bad Con save and it's downed.

Also, the artificer has 5 more attunement slots and have 5 other infused items in addition to any normal magical items they have.
Exactly, but actually if that situation happened I would just focus on the hound haha. In your opinion what's the best companion, are there any that I don't know? The ones that I know are Pact of the Chain Warlock, Beast Master, Battle Smith, Shadow Sorcerer, Paladin with Find Steed and Find Familiar.

[BloodBrandy]

Exactly, but actually if that situation happened I would just focus on the hound haha. In your opinion what's the best companion, are there any that I don't know? The ones that I know are Pact of the Chain Warlock, Beast Master, Battle Smith, Shadow Sorcerer, Paladin with Find Steed and Find Familiar.

It's a hard call as each has strengths and weaknesses, and 'Best' depends on what you are trying to do.

Chainlock Familiar is easily best for scouting since two of the added options can go invisible and you have an invocation to communicate with them anywhere on your current plane of existence. Though the Find Familiar for wizards is much more limited, it's still a decent scout, aid, and spy, if needed.

Iron Defender is a better support friend since it doesn't get surprised, can heal nearby allies or itself, and it actually grows in strength, rather than just HP, with it's master.

Hound of Ill Omen is a good sort of disposable ally. Unlike most Summons that act independently of your actions, you don't need concentration to maintain it and it's relatively cheap and easy to pop back when it is destroyed, but it's limited in it's targets and the only thing it gets as you level up is a bit more temp HP.

Find Steed and Find Greater Steed are better able to act independently, but are more about improving the rider than acting on their own most of the time. That said, the range on the Paladin's contact with them means they could be useful for scouting as well but their size means they are both more noticeable and not as able to reach small places.

The Beast Master companion is...A tough call. It's more expensive to recall/revive than any of the others on this list. It has the ability to gain better stats as you do, it gets stronger to a degree as well like the Iron Defender, I suppose. On paper it seems good, but the Ranger itself has a couple of issues.

[Farias123]

It's a hard call as each has strengths and weaknesses, and 'Best' depends on what you are trying to do.

Chainlock Familiar is easily best for scouting since two of the added options can go invisible and you have an invocation to communicate with them anywhere on your current plane of existence. Though the Find Familiar for wizards is much more limited, it's still a decent scout, aid, and spy, if needed.

Iron Defender is a better support friend since it doesn't get surprised, can heal nearby allies or itself, and it actually grows in strength, rather than just HP, with it's master.

Hound of Ill Omen is a good sort of disposable ally. Unlike most Summons that act independently of your actions, you don't need concentration to maintain it and it's relatively cheap and easy to pop back when it is destroyed, but it's limited in it's targets and the only thing it gets as you level up is a bit more temp HP.

Find Steed and Find Greater Steed are better able to act independently, but are more about improving the rider than acting on their own most of the time. That said, the range on the Paladin's contact with them means they could be useful for scouting as well but their size means they are both more noticeable and not as able to reach small places.

The Beast Master companion is...A tough call. It's more expensive to recall/revive than any of the others on this list. It has the ability to gain better stats as you do, it gets stronger to a degree as well like the Iron Defender, I suppose. On paper it seems good, but the Ranger itself has a couple of issues.
Thanks for the feedback, what I mean for best is like options on support, tankness or even survivability if they we're all thrown in an arena with the other ones, ya know?

[BloodBrandy]

Thanks for the feedback, what I mean for best is like options on support, tankness or even survivability if they we're all thrown in an arena with the other ones, ya know?

Well, Iron Defender balances the three most, I think. It has the ability to heal itself and others, it's attack abilities grow with the master's proficiency, it gets a sizable HP pool and ends up with an AC of 17, all of which is respectable.

Find Steed depends on how much you are willing to put into it. Making proper use of a steed requires it be properly armored and equipped, and all the better if the rider has the Mounted Combat feat, but it's less of a companion and more of an extension of the Paladin in question, since IIRC by mount rules they act on the same initiative and turn when the rider is on them.

Hound of Ill Omen is more for supporting it's creator than the team at large. It's attacking could drive back the target, the disadvantage on spell saves only applies to the creators spells, and like I said before it's not especially strong. At later levels it's not likely to last more than a couple turns unless it's getting heals from somewhere.

Find Familiar is dependent on who is using it. It's mainly for support work, scouting, giving the Help action in battle, maybe carrying small loads or being the eyes for the master. Not to say it can't have some battle application itself. Using the Dragon Breath spell on your familiar and letting it spew your choice of element on enemies as it flits around is a valid strategy (Especially if your DM allows the Flock of Familiars spell), as is keeping a safe distance yourself, hidden away, as you channel Touch spells through it, but it's not going to last terribly long doing so if the enemy has any ranged ability since most anything will kill such a familiar in one hit. Pact of Chain adds a bit more support to their role through Invocations, but they still aren't really survivors nor tanks in any way.

And Beast Companion's seem a bit more combat based. They don't really get any support ability other than that of the Ranger themselves, they do get a bit stronger as the ranger grows, though they don't really have a great starting spot. Their HP starts pretty low, though it does increase. The issue is...That's basically all that does increase. They might be better in early game, but they fall off hard in later game when having base stats with more HP and your proficiency added to AC, Hit and Damage rolls isn't going to be enough. Also, it's my fault I read the wrong thing earlier, but you can't revive a companion. you can try and get a new one, but that's not always going to be an easy feat.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

The shadow sorcerer can have more then one hound at the same time.
The hound have pact tactics and give disadvantage vs the shadow sorcerer spells.

[Farias123]

The shadow sorcerer can have more then one hound at the same time.
The hound have pact tactics and give disadvantage vs the shadow sorcerer spells.
That's nice to know, and it can have some crazy strategies, I already do something like this with the defender, I flank with him almost any time I can. So, do you think 2 hounds would beat a Steel Defender?(both of their masters on level 20)

[Dr. Cliché]

I prefer the Defender.

Having played a Shadow Sorcerer, there's something depressing about having to waste an already scarce and precious class-resource just to use your core subclass ability.

[Farias123]

I prefer the Defender.

Having played a Shadow Sorcerer, there's something depressing about having to waste an already scarce and precious class-resource just to use your core subclass ability. That's sad, Shadow Sorcerer uses sorcery points for darkness as well right?

[stoutstien]

The steel defender can attune to magical items which open up some fun options.

[Dr. Cliché]

That's sad, Shadow Sorcerer uses sorcery points for darkness as well right?

You can cast it normally or for 2 sorcery points, but if you do the former then you don't get to see through it for some reason.

[Farias123]

The steel defender can attune to magical items which open up some fun options.
That's way too nice to ignore haha, but it can be dangerous if you lost the defender for some reason, like a creature got him and he can't attack because you're not close to him, then you could lose a magic item.

[Farias123]

You can cast it normally or for 2 sorcery points, but if you do the former then you don't get to see through it for some reason.
Yeah, the Hound can mean one less metamagic for the Sorcerer, but in some situations I think it's worth it, like would you rather have a big dog that fights for you or use a spell as a bonus action?

[stoutstien]

That's way too nice to ignore haha, but it can be dangerous if you lost the defender for some reason, like a creature got him and he can't attack because you're not close to him, then you could lose a magic item.
Use infusions. You can just reset them next day.

[Farias123]

Use infusions. You can just reset them next day.
Holy crap, you're right, thanks.

[Dr. Cliché]

Yeah, the Hound can mean one less metamagic for the Sorcerer, but in some situations I think it's worth it, like would you rather have a big dog that fights for you or use a spell as a bonus action?

Perhaps but it's still competing with your class abilities for the same, very limited pool of resources.

Hell, it's even competing with your Lv1 subclass feature for the same, very limited pool of resources.

[Farias123]

Perhaps but it's still competing with your class abilities for the same, very limited pool of resources.

Hell, it's even competing with your Lv1 subclass feature for the same, very limited pool of resources.
Yeah, I see what you mean, that's why I'm so thoughtful about it, like, the Steel Defender has more HP, has cure, to bring him back is way cheaper than the Hound, he can use Arcane Jolt on attacks, and so on, the only drawback that I see on him is the cost of bonus action, but man, it's worth it.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Yeah, the Hound can mean one less metamagic for the Sorcerer, but in some situations I think it's worth it, like would you rather have a big dog that fights for you or use a spell as a bonus action?

The hound is a better highten spell as it is disadvantage of every save and not only the first.

[AttilatheYeon]

I feel like the issue with that is the Hound can only go after the target, Dis is only applied if the target is within 5ft, and if we are talking both at level 20, the Artificer can have Winged Boots (Replicate Magical Item) to keep out of the reach of the hound that can't fly. Yes, the Sorcerer could use Fly on the hound, but a bad Con save and it's downed.

Also, the artificer has 5 more attunement slots and have 5 other infused items in addition to any normal magical items they have.

That's kinda the point. The hound is not a "companion". It's best used and probably primary function is to impose disadvantage on the target. Which makes it more a "metamagic" ability than an add. Steel defender is an actual add with abilities that support this. Which is why i sa2 apples to oranges.

If you want a straight answer the steel defender as a companion ability is lightyears better. But the hound is better for what it's meant for, which is not to be an add, but rather to enhance the shadow sorcs magic without the need for metamagic.

[Farias123]

The hound is a better highten spell as it is disadvantage of every save and not only the first.
Of course, but since it does cost an action it could be killed before even is the Sorcerer turn again and he can do any save or suck spell, as a Battle Smith 47 damage on one turn on level 20 isn't that hard.

[Farias123]

Oops, my bad, the Hound actually costs a bonus action, so the save or suck spell could be cast on the same turn, even though if not restrained could easily beat up the Hound on one turn

[Farias123]

But indeed it would be better if you could cast spells by touch through the defender too, or that other ability from the steed to share spells, would be perfect for things like Shield, so the defender would gain +5 to his AC, Branding or Banishing Smite would be nice as well.

[Farias123]

So, I went into a bit of maths if anyone is interested:
Comparison Steel Defender vs Hound of ill Omen:
Through levels 6 to 9 both the Steel Defender and the Hound of Ill Omen have the same bonus to hit (+5) and the damage of the Hound is better, deals 2d6+3(10), whereas the Steel Defender deals 1d8+3(7,5); Starting on level 7, the Steel Defender's HP(with an INT of 18) gets better than the Hound(41 vs 40). Through levels 9 to 13 the Steel Defender's bonus to hit surpasses the Hound's and bonus to damage increase by one(1d8+4(8,5)) and the HP gets even higher than the Hound's HP(now 20 on INT): 52 vs 41(on level 9).
Through levels 13 to 17 the Defender's HP only gets even higher than the Hound's:72 vs 43(level 13), but his attack damage stays lower(1d8+5(9,5)).
Finally on level 17 the Steel Defender's attack damage surpasses the Hound's(1d8+6(10,5) vs 2d6+3(10), and his HP is going crazy and probably higher than a lot of teamates who dumped CON.
(92 vs 45)