[d20PFSRD . com Publishing] The Fisherking Open Playtest

[Awun]

Hello all, welcome to the playtest for The Fisherking. I've been working on this project for a while now and its been recently picked up by d20PFSRD.com Publishing. I plan to run this playtest is for around three weeks.

Within this playtest you will find the following:

The Fisherking, a Witch/Vizier hybrid veilweaving class with the power to impose their will on the world around them. Mysticism and majesty suffuse everything they do. They are the signature user of voice slot veils, which can provide additional benefits when using the Kingdom Building system presented in Ultimate Campaign.
Six new archetypes supporting the Fisherking, Witch, Vizier, and the Fisherking's spiritual kinsman Dreamscarred Press’ Rajah.
The akashic records Shaman spirit, a knowledge focused spirit that opens up akasha and psychic casting to the shaman.
20 new hexes.
18 new veils, including the Fisherking's kingdom shaping voice veils.
A host of new magic items, feats, and traits to support the Fisherking and his court.


Feel free to comment here or on the doc. As always, feedback, comments, opinions, and suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Thanks.

[Castilonium]

Hey, Awun, glad to hear you've been picked up by a publisher! I've always loved the idea of characters making the surrounding area reflect their personalities and emotions, and of ruler-style classes, so I'm a big fan of Rajahs and Highlords (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Highlord). The Fisherking looks super exciting!

Skills: I think it shouldn't have Disguise as a class skill and should have Handle Animal instead. They seem to be themed more as an obvious ruler like Rajahs and less as a "power behind the throne" like Viziers.

Royal Attendants: It's interesting to see the differences this has with the Rajah's House of Servants. Fisherking servant's can't talk, look non-generic, go invisible, or move as quickly as the Fisherking, but can have higher strength and be more numerous than Rajah servants. Is the Fisherking unable to ever change their livery?

Hexes: 8 hexes seems like a lot. That's only 3 fewer than what Witches get.

Royal Coven: It makes no sense to require an actual hag in a Fisherking's coven. What about a Daeva of sufficiently high CR, or something else?

Malefic Sanction: I see it's an adaptation of the Hex Strike (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hex-strike-combat/) feat, but it's tremendously more powerful because you'd be using it with a weapon veil, possibly pseudo full BAB, and don't have to invest further into unarmed fighting via multiclassing or feats. It might be too strong.

Tyranny and Indulgence: I don't understand what this actually does. Blessed Lands' effect is determined by the Fisherking's alignment, and you already can decide who your enemies and allies are whenever you want, right? So, this hex removes your ability to choose allies and makes everyone receive Blessed Lands' effect with a +1 bonus/penalty to saves?

Witch Hex: Is it a good idea let Fisherkings take ANY Witch hex, including major and grand hexes? Shamans are a hybrid Witch/Oracle class, and they can only take one single regular Witch hex. A lot of hexes don't fit with the theme of a ruler, either. I think it'd be better to have a whitelist of Witch hexes that Fisherkings can take.

Regal Presence: As much as I love bonuses to social skills, +1/2 class level + essence to three different skills is just way too much. The SLA seems fine, though, since it has costs and limits.

Divine Eminence: Is this at-will? Does the effect automatically end once an enemy suffers wisdom drain from overwhelming presence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/overwhelming-presence/)?

The Senator: Does Voice Like Thunder grant all bardic performances a bard gets? It says "The senator can select a number of supernatural and spell-like performances similar to a bard" which is unclear.

The Warden: Can you ever exclude allies from or reduce the size of Containment Field? It seems like it hinders allies more than it would enemies.

Veils: The Fisherking's veilweaving feature says that they use the Vizier's veil list, so you don't need to list Fisherking in each veil. Also, Sword of Kingship lists Fisherking but not Vizier.

Dark Fey's Diadem: Dark fey... Raven familiar... Eternal slumber... Wall of thorns... Neat, it's Maleficent! Can the familiar have archetypes? Can you change the archetype each time you summon it?

Pact Binder's Pendant: "A pendant rich with the gold of promises and shaped like a nautilus shell sits at your throat." Wait a second... https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/4/43/Littlermaersmadsfeen.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140119145754

Declaration of War: +1 attack per essence is too much. +1 attack per 2 essence seems more balanced. The damage bonus is probably fine. Also, since only a certain number of allies get the bonuses, what kind of action is it to decide who gets them?

Rebuke: 1d6 damage per essence (will half) with a ranged touch attack is pretty weak. Also, what is its range?

Royal Patent: This... Makes level 9+ Fisherkings even better than Rajahs at using Title veils.

Overall: The Fisherking just seems like a superior version of the Vizier. Fisherkings have the same number of veils, essence, and bind progression as Viziers, but get a lot more power via hexes and additional class features than a Vizier gets from veilshifting or mystic attunement. Fisherkings are also better than Witches at using hexes because they can use them at a greater range, have access to all witch hexes including major and grand hexes, and can further improve them with Peerless Hex. I love the Fisherking in general, but it shouldn't invalidate other classes.

[Serafina]

The good/evil options of Blessed Land are not at all of equal worth to each other, with the evil one being much stronger.

Inflicting a penalty on enemy saves is extremely strong, especially since penalties do not have a type and thus stack much better. The Fisherking themselves is very likely to benefit from this penalty too, with all their veils and hexes. The insight bonus to friendly saves is unlikely to compare, especially since it might conflict with a lot of akashiv veils that grant such bonuses. But even without stacking issues, it's still not as good.

The movement speed bonuses/penalties are more equal in value, but the penalty is still better since it works better with the class identity, has no stacking issues and works better with difficult terrain, while the main advantage of the bonus is just faster overland travel (provided you do not have a flight speed or already have an enhancement bonus to land speed).

Given that this is the only class feature that is tied to alignment, and that otherwise you'd just be heavily incentivized to play a neutral fisher king, I'd suggest dropping the alignment restriction and offer players a choice between both when they shape their veils. If you want to retain the alignment-effect, you can still have them radiate a [good] or [evil] aura and/or count as such effects, depending on their choice.

[StSword]

Yeah, the aura effect being alignment restricted seemed a little weird to me now that it's been mentioned.

The good effect helps allies, the evil aspect punishes enemies, but well, helping allies isn't good, hampering enemies isn't evil, that's just pragmatism.

[Awun]

Wow thanks for all of the feedback folks.

Castilonium,

Skills: Disguise was included to round out social skills, but you are right the Fisherking is supposed by be a more overt ruler. I will revisit wether or not this is something they should have.

Royal Attendants: In a similar manner to the Rajah it made sense for the Fisherking to have servants to attend him and his needs. Some of the differences lie in my view of the Fisherking being more of a stationary ruler, where as the Rajah would move around more. At them moment the only method for changing the livery is via retraining. This was going on the idea that livery is not something that one regularly changes.

Hexes: 8 was selected based on the witch’s other hybrid, the Shaman, but this might be adjusted.

Royal Coven: The inclusion of a hag was for simplicity and to mirror the Coven hex, as one of the benefits of joining a hag coven is the shared pool of spell-like abilities. Though, in both the case of Royal Coven and Coven this is a situational benefit given the nature of hags. I will look into other possibilities for this part, but the meat of this hex is intended to be the aid another function.

Malefic Sanction: While I think that Hex Strike might be a touch weak, I can see why this is concerning. That said capitalizing on the pseudo full BAB from using a veil to deliver a hex in this way doesn’t seem like an ideal expenditure of resources. Added to the “to review” list.

Tyranny and Indulgence: Yes, while active this hex remove the fisherking’s ability to choose. The aura of a good aligned fisherking gives every creature in range an upgraded boost to saves, and the aura of an evil fisherking does the opposite. That said, a new version has been added to the document that should be more clear.

Witch Hex: In comparing to the Shaman, both in terms of access to the witch list of hexes and grand/major hexes, the Shaman’s spirits and their expanded list of hexes and related abilities seems to fill the gap in their case, both broadening their list and providing access to stronger abilities. Also, added to the "to review" list. As for the thematic fit of certain witch hexes, while some may not fit with the theme of “ruler” the do mesh with “magical ruler”. Theme aside, white-listing only certain witch hexes seems like an overly strong limitation.

Regal Presence: Fair point. I’ve altered this one tone it down.

Divine Eminence: Good catch. Times per day should be one, and a clarifying line on the wisdom damage has been added.

The Senator: This now reads “The senator gains the ability to use supernatural and spell-like performances like a bard.”

The Warden: Now includes the following text “As a free action during his turn, the warden can choose a number of creatures equal to his veilweaving modifier. The selected creatures are immune to the effects of this ability and automatically pass the Reflex save against the ability nothing must escape, gained at 9th level.”

Veils: The listing of Fisherking in each veil entry and the seeming anomaly of Sword of Kingship was done on purpose. Similar to the Sorcerer and Oracle having a spell or two that is not shared by the Wizard or Oracle, the shared veil list is functionally identical but with a minor deviation.

Dark Fey's Diadem: This veil has gotten a small edit concerning this. The familiar comes with an archetype built in (ambassador, prankster, or valet) though others could be combined subject to the normal stacking rules. Though I believe that none of those stack with any others. The archetype can be changed each time the veil is shaped.

Pact Binder's Pendant: Lol.

Declaration of War: I agree, that was basically the essence scaling for the first version of the veil. At the time it thought I was being overly paranoid. Adjusted and fixed.

Rebuke: Close range, and the damage now includes your veilweaving modifier.

Royal Patent: This was somewhat intentional, as most fisherkings will likely just have the one title. A senator Rajah would be the most use out of it. That said there is an adjustment that apparently got left behind in a prior version of the document.

Overall: Adjusting the Fisherking’s veilweaving and hexes was always on the list of possible options, and is easily done. The version as it stands was to probe and see if someone other than me though that its abilities on those fronts were too much. I want the fisherking to be able to stand with its parent classes, not step on their toes or usurp them.


Serafina & StSword,

Trying for equality between the two auras has been something of a point of frustration, that said I do have a few possible adjustments in mind. As for the alignment restriction, I can see your points. It is somewhat of a vestigial hold over, a prior version of the class had a third “neutral option” and there was a bit more involvement with alignment. The alignment based nature of this ability is likely going to be chopped, in large part for the reasons you mentioned.



Once again thanks everyone, and please keep the comments coming.

[Kris Moonhand]

I really like the look of the Fisherking! A more castery noble veilweaver, as opposed to the heavily martial Rajah, is a welcome addition, in my opinion. The veils look cool, the archetypes are rad (especially Warden and the Witch ones), and it's so nice to see someone remember that the poor Helmsman exists. I particularly loved the Disn- I mean, generic fairy tale veils.

I do have some similar concerns to others above regarding hex access and number of hexes. A blacklist might be easier than a whitelist, though it would have similar issues where you can't futureproof it or account for 3pp hexes you don't know about. And I'd suggest "2nd level, 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter" for hex progression, for about half as many as a Witch.

Some random questions:

Is the only point of Peerless Hex (before you get the ability to bind it) the increase in DC?

Does the Sentor Rajah have performance rounds like a Bard? If so, does that mean they'll eventually run out of the ability to regain multiple maneuvers during the day?

If you're giving Fisherkings access to Title veils, perhaps they should also have The Demiurge (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/The_Demiurge) on their list? Since The Demiurge isn't actually a Title veil, giving access to Titles instead of to Rajah veils makes them lose out on it.

[Awun]

I really like the look of the Fisherking! A more castery noble veilweaver, as opposed to the heavily martial Rajah, is a welcome addition, in my opinion. The veils look cool, the archetypes are rad (especially Warden and the Witch ones), and it's so nice to see someone remember that the poor Helmsman exists. I particularly loved the Disn- I mean, generic fairy tale veils.

I do have some similar concerns to others above regarding hex access and number of hexes. A blacklist might be easier than a whitelist, though it would have similar issues where you can't futureproof it or account for 3pp hexes you don't know about. And I'd suggest "2nd level, 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter" for hex progression, for about half as many as a Witch.

Some random questions:

Is the only point of Peerless Hex (before you get the ability to bind it) the increase in DC?

Does the Sentor Rajah have performance rounds like a Bard? If so, does that mean they'll eventually run out of the ability to regain multiple maneuvers during the day?

If you're giving Fisherkings access to Title veils, perhaps they should also have The Demiurge (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/The_Demiurge) on their list? Since The Demiurge isn't actually a Title veil, giving access to Titles instead of to Rajah veils makes them lose out on it.

Kris,
Thanks, I'm glad you like it. Hehe, yes every one loves fairy tales. Though of few of the veils could be a bit too close to the mark, and some adjustments to flavor text might be in order.

Hexes and veileaving are both up for alterations, and I've already done an alternate version of the chart and ability text with that kind of progression for the hexes included. Especially now that it seems like a common concern, its a change that I feel good about and will be implemented soon. Futureproofing is one of my major concerns, which is part of why I'm hesitant to restrict the list of hexes.

Yes, aside from thematic flair, the DC boost is the intended benefit prior to 9th lvl.

Yes, the senator does have performance rounds like a Bard, so they would run out. Thanks for pointing this out, it will be fixed.

While I see the potential utility of adding The Demiurge to their list, the Fisherking's access to title veils is rather limited, so I think it would be a bit out of place. Aside from this, I kind of like that it is unique to the Rajah's, and it is of course it is always accessible via Shape Veil.

[Awun]

A revised version of the Fisherking is now available.

Notable Changes from v 1:

Hexes and veilweaving progressions both reduced.
The Warden(Fisherking), now gains its Warden’s Signet ability at 8th level instead of 10th.
Peerless Hexes can now be bound starting at level 7.
Blessed Land’s alignment restrictions have been removed and its “My Enemies Will Suffer” option has been adjusted.
The Malefic Sanction hex has been altered.
The wording of several sections, including the senator's “Voice Like Thunder” ability, have been adjusted for clarity.
Voice veils now provide their kingdom effects when shaped and the line “You also gain access to this veil's kingdom effect.” has been removed from all voice veils since the rules for this veil type already states this.
The veil Stay of Execution, now synergizes better with the feat Merciful Veils.
Disguise has been removed from the Fisherking’s list of class skills.
The Senator (Rajah) can now recovery its maneuvers via essence burn once it runs out of rounds of bardic performance.


Once again, thank you everyone.

[Quertus]

So, IMO, I think that the best you can do to future-proud things is to, hmmm… "grey list" ("zebra list"?) to coin a phrase: both white list and black list existing things, *and explain why*. Say that, for things printed in the future, it should *generally* follow that same logic.

[Roadie]

My main points of feedback:

- Royal attendants feels like a weirdly isolated ability, given how nothing connects to it the way that various rajah abilities connect mechanically to house of servants and that thematically associate with it by acting from the squares of other creatures.

- "Fisherking" is really strange name to use, given that its original association is with a king (or two kings) who's wounded and so can't do anything kingly. It has nothing to do with the class' abilities in any thematic way at all.

[Kris Moonhand]

My main points of feedback:

- Royal attendants feels like a weirdly isolated ability, given how nothing connects to it the way that various rajah abilities connect mechanically to house of servants and that thematically associate with it by acting from the squares of other creatures.
You do have a point there. Rajah's heraldries often link to house of servants, giving them new SLAs and such. Royal attendants are just kinda there. I wouldn't say that's necessarily a bad thing, as ribbon abilities go, but it is a thing.

- "Fisherking" is really strange name to use, given that its original association is with a king (or two kings) who's wounded and so can't do anything kingly. It has nothing to do with the class' abilities in any thematic way at all.
The Fisher King, in modern cultural understanding, is less about the actual mythical story of the Fisher King, but instead focuses on the aspect of that story where his land died because of his inattention. (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FisherKing) Saying "oh, he's like a fisher king" is easier than saying "he's like that part in the Lion King where the Pridelands turned into a wasteland because Scar was evil and so the land reflected his dark heart."

Speaking of, it'd be cool to somehow combine the idea of the Fisherking's effect on the area with the Stormbound somehow. Like filling the area with choking ash from The Devastation or making it always winter (and never Christmas) from The Blizzard. A multiclass feat or archetype, maybe? Perhaps something that really links in with the kingdom building stuff where you have true dominion over the environment in your kingdom, and maybe limited omniscience within your borders. "Nothing that happens in Rome escapes the Emperor's notice. We know all that is said and done... and thought."

And while I'm brainstorming, maybe some kind of Fisherking archetype whose power runs backwards, so depending on where they are (ranger terrains, maybe), they give off different auras and have different abilities.

[JerichoPenumbra]

I think this is a really cool concept, though I'm slightly disappointed that the Sword of Kingship isn't called Sword of Damocles, or that it doesn't create a giant floating sword above them :smallamused:.

Edit: Or as a potential idea to hop off of Kris's suggestions, a prestige class for Fisherking/Stormbounds.

[Awun]

Quertus,
As a big fan of "rules guidance" in addition to black and white rule text, I do find this idea appealing. However, in this case a fair amount of, potentially case by case, explaining could be required. With the variety of what hexes are capable of it would be hard to tack on general guidance that's both meaningful and easy to use when players and GMs are making decisions. Some hexes may not be perfect thematic matches for the Fisherking, but none that I can think of are sufficiently alien to require blocking access to them.

Roadie,
On the subject of the name Kris hits the nail on the head. It is a reference to the modern usage of the the phrase/concept/trope . I played around with several alternate names, but this one stuck.

Kris and Rodie,
I agree Royal Attendants is a touch isolated at present, I'll see what can be done about that depending on available space. At worst it will be a priority for potential future expansions on the class.

Kris and JerichoPenumbra,
I am a huge fan of the Stormbound. A mashup between it and the Fisherking may or may not be on my list of future expansions. Its an ever growing list, lol.

JerichoPenumbra,
Hmm, the sword of Damocles is definitely something that should exist in veil form.


Update: Royal Attendants has been updated. The new version offers the ability to optionally upgrade the granted unseen servants at the cost of a feat or a hex starting at 3rd level.

[Awun]

I have a question for you all. What are your thoughts on the Regnant Magister(Vizier Archetype)? Especially in regard to its "Spell Lore" ability, This ability grants the archetype pseudo 1-9 spontaneous spell casting at the cost of essence binding, and I'm curious about what people think of it.

[StSword]

I have a question for you all. What are your thoughts on the Regnant Magister(Vizier Archetype)? Especially in regard to its "Spell Lore" ability, This ability grants the archetype pseudo 1-9 spontaneous spell casting at the cost of essence binding, and I'm curious about what people think of it.

Well I admit I'm not the best at power balancing, so grain of salt, but here's my take, since you asked.

It's a powerful option, since it adds versatility.

But even at 20th level, the character is giving up 2 veils a day (which are the bread and butter of the class after all), to bind 20% of their essence (again, bread and butter for an akashic class) into the ability to cast up to 4 spells a day.

Admittedly, those spells can be ninth level, but any character who really wants to be a spellcaster isn't going to be playing a vizier.

[JerichoPenumbra]

Regarding the Regnant Magister, I definitely like it as a concept though I'm not sure about the return on the investment of essence. At max level that'll be roughly 15~17 spell slots if they decided to invest all of their essence compared to most casters 36~54 base, but could potentially have all those spell slots be 9th level spells. But only looking at if something breaks down at high level play is never a good marker for balance in my opinion. At high levels it gets a bit broke but nothing too major while at low levels there isn't much to be had, just a bit of a minor boost. Overall it seems like fun addition.

An idea that I'm not sure about it instead have spell lore function as you get a specific spell, rather than a spell slot, that you can use veil-weaving mod times a day or something basic like 3 or 4 times day but you have to burn essence to use it. Bit conflicted if it should just be a single point of essence burn, or if it should be burn equal to the spell level (definitely should be burn to spell level if veil-weaving mod times a day). A potential way to simplify this is instead of having quasi-sorcerer spells known, is have it be more like quasi-bard spells known, only going to 6th level spells.

Part of me thinks that the Badge of Office feels a little like a barren option. The bonus spell a day is useful but the ability to take essence burn to do a stat swap a limited number of times a day seems a little underwhelming. Potential ideas that I think that could spice it up a bit is have the stat swap for social skills a constant effect but limited to one skill at a time, with option of binding essence to get more social skills affected, with potential other benefits. Also maybe have the option of investing essence into whatever magic item they turn the bond into to increase bonuses it gives or save DCs and the like.


Numbers are assuming at least one Akashic feat was taken for +1 essense
Level Essense Spell Slots E.Spell Level
1 2 1 1
2 3 2 1
3 4 2 2
4 5 3 2
5 6 3 3
6 7 4 3
7 8 4 4
8 9 5 4
9 10 5 5
10 11 6 5
11 13 7 6
12 15 8 6
13 17 9 7
14 19 10 7
15 21 11 8
16 23 12 8
17 25 13 9
18 27 14 9
19 29 15 9
20 31 16 9

[StSword]

Regarding the Regnant Magister, I definitely like it as a concept though I'm not sure about the return on the investment of essence. At max level that'll be roughly 15~17 spell slots if they decided to invest all of their essence compared to most casters 36~54 base, but could potentially have all those spell slots be 9th level spells. But only looking at if something breaks down at high level play is never a good marker for balance in my opinion. At high levels it gets a bit broke but nothing too major while at low levels there isn't much to be had, just a bit of a minor boost. Overall it seems like fun addition.


No, they'll be getting a max of four spell slots.

Essence receptacles like that class feature have a limit based on level, which normally tops at four. The Magister has another limit in that only their levels in magister count for that limit towards spell lore.

With improved essence capacity class feature that limit improves to seven.

With seven essence bound to spell lore, that's casting four spells a day.

Even if one interprets the essence receptacle rules to not include bound essence (which I don't think is rules as intended), since spell lore specifically states that "The regnant magister’s vizier level is used to determine essence capacity for this ability instead of his character level," spell lore is specifically limited by the essence capacity limit.

[JerichoPenumbra]

--Snip--

Wow, I derped hard on that one. Completely forgot about essence limits. Most of the first 2/3rd of my last post can be ignored.

[Awun]

Thanks for jumping on my request for comments on this archetype.


Well I admit I'm not the best at power balancing, so grain of salt, but here's my take, since you asked.

It's a powerful option, since it adds versatility.

But even at 20th level, the character is giving up 2 veils a day (which are the bread and butter of the class after all), to bind 20% of their essence (again, bread and butter for an akashic class) into the ability to cast up to 4 spells a day.

Admittedly, those spells can be ninth level, but any character who really wants to be a spellcaster isn't going to be playing a vizier.

The hope was that the sacrifice to the class's bread and butter ability would balance with the touch of added versatility. Part of the goal was to give the vizier the option to blend the reliability/stamina of veils with the sometimes explosive power of spells. Also, there are archetypes that give traditional spellcasters access to limited veilweaving, but not really a reverse option until now.


A potential way to simplify this is instead of having quasi-sorcerer spells known, is have it be more like quasi-bard spells known, only going to 6th level spells.
Part of me thinks that the Badge of Office feels a little like a barren option. The bonus spell a day is useful but the ability to take essence burn to do a stat swap a limited number of times a day seems a little underwhelming. Potential ideas that I think that could spice it up a bit is have the stat swap for social skills a constant effect but limited to one skill at a time, with option of binding essence to get more social skills affected, with potential other benefits. Also maybe have the option of investing essence into whatever magic item they turn the bond into to increase bonuses it gives or save DCs and the like.


When I was working through how to get spellcasting into this archetype, I did consider bard like casting. I settled on having their spells known cap out at 9th, in part because at the level where they would get access to 9th level spells the 2 veils they lost at that point could have filled a niche more the equivalent of 7th, 8th, or 9th level spell effects once you consider binding and essence. Or in other words it seemed like it made the trade more fair. I also wanted the regnant magister to be a "master" of spellcasting, but have a very limited ability to actually cast spells.

I'll review Badge of Office. Though aside from the bonus spell and the skill swap ability, it does have two other notable properties as a bonded object. It is always a masterwork item and it can be upgraded "A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required Item Creation Feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat...".



Wow, I derped hard on that one. Completely forgot about essence limits. Most of the first 2/3rd of my last post can be ignored.

It happens. Regardless, thank you for being thorough. You were definitely putting thought into your reply, and you brought attention to something that might have also slipped other people's minds.

[Awun]

Hey folks, the Fisherking playtest is going to close this Sunday the 17th. Please feel free to comment or give it a read, if you haven't had a chance to yet. Once again I want to thank everyone for the comments, suggestions, and for just dropping by to take a look. You all are great!

[nightlandr]

I want to say first, I'm a big fan of the Akasha system (and previous that, the Incarnum system), and that I've loved a lot of what people have put into the system over the last few years. I want the resources to be great, so pardon me for being over critical at any point. I also meant to do this a couple of weeks back when I first saw this. I hope that my musings on your creations will help to make them better. (Also, first time posting on this board, so I apologize if I'm not doing this correctly.)

Note: this is 6 pages in Google Docs after this is all said and done, and took me a few hours to put together. Good luck to whoever reads this.

Edit 1: Board coding added characters in that I removed.

Chapter 1: Fisherking

Themes: I understand why you chose witches for this with your obvious allusions to popularized, mass produced fairy tales, but to be frank I just don't get it. In our history, in the time period that Pathfinder calls out to (an idealized medieval society), Witches were hunted, they remained in the shadows for their lives. Game-wise, I understand that to Pathfinder Witches public scrutiny may not be a thing. The other foible I have with Witches as a parent, is that they have a Patron. What good is a ruler that has to bargain for power? On top of that, it is combined with another class, the Vizier. The first sentence in their class introduction uses the phrase "the power behind the throne".

Combination-wise for a hybrid class, you took two theoretically sneaky themed parent classes and combined them together and said this person is born to rule? To me this seems very forced. In my eyes it seemed to be an excuse to throw hexes into an Akashic class.

Now if you you would have said Rajah / Witch (or Wizard or Bard) this combination would have been more believable to me. There are many Rajah based traits thrown into what this is, why pick Vizier at this point?

Class Abilities:

Veilweaving: The two parent classes are Intelligence based, now we see here that the Fisherking is Charisma based. Most of the time the focus stat is in the same line with one or both of the parent classes (exception is Shaman). I don't believe that any of the Akashic classes operate off of the same list of ability, while they share some, each class is it's own container. Using the Vizier class list for Veils does not seem right, considering the difference in theme.

Blessed Land: One of these abilities is a lot stronger than the other. The negative save from "My Enemies Will Suffer" combined with Evil Eye could skew the odds heavily. Also this ability, in general, does not offer anything for someone who wants to place Essence in it. I will grant that the ability to enact a touch based hex within the area is a neat trick. Also, does this ability have an off switch?

Royal Attendants: In reality, are the differences between this and the Rajah ability of "House of Servants" that critical? Is the use of the area of effect for Blessed Land critical to this, bear in mind you are binding the area of effect of one Essence containing class ability with another (it seems unnecessarily math-ie and counter intuitive to keep in mind). They are forever bound to a specific livery (per Paul Fossgreen on the Google Doc)? (Which could be a funny character point, "I really enjoyed bright pink and yellow in that checker pattern in my youth", says the 50 year old Fisherking who is known for his military prowess, but not his stealth) Also, unlike the Rajah's ability, these Unseen Servants can provide Aid Another actions? Also, being a Veil focused class who would seem to have a stronger tendency towards the caster aspect of Akasha, would you ever need more than your caster stat worth of Servants? Also, is it even worth the investment to enhance their strength given the abilities as defined by the Unseen Servant spell? Okay, so they get a few options of Heraldries in place of Hexes if they choose, with the power disparity between Hexes and these ability what character or thematic reason would they ever take these given the choice? (Aside from Cup Bearer, which gives you a killer spell)

Hex:
Royal Coven: Is the scenario that is being laid out for this really ever going to happen?
Malefic Sanction / Will Incarnate: I like abilities that apply a bit of versatility to class features.
Most Trusted Servant: Leadership as a Hex? Also, being what this ability is, why bother having it be once a day AND an Essence Burn.
Tyranny and Indulgence: This is not a great trade off, too empowering to your foes, and does not apply enough utility for your allies to be worth it.
Witch Hex: A gray list would be advisable for this. Some Witch's Hexes just don't fit the theme of a ruler. Unless they are possibly recovering child eaters (I'm looking at you Child-Scent).

Regal Presence: Can you decide to buff all of these skills at once (there is an and/or in the second sentence of it, I am unsure if it's suppose to be one skill or all the skills)? The bonus is suppose to be 1/2 level + Essence, half level skill bonus abilities usually end up earlier on in the leveling process than 7th, it's also an Essence container where there are other Veils that can fulfill this similar purpose. It also has a limited use 1st level spell that may apply another +5 to it? I'm not following why this is at level 7.

Major Hex: Why do they receive these? The other hybrid class with a Witch base does not receive this. It kind of flies against part of the purpose of hybrid classes, right? Hexes are a Witch thing, Witches do it the best, but now you got this guy who uses Veils instead of spells, and can Hex just as well as a Witch can.
Castle: The Constructed Comforts Heraldry.
Builder of Roads: I dig the aesthetics of this. You get it roughly around the same time a Sorcerer would be able to access 6th level spell.
Call to Court: Instead of having it pair with Most Trusted Servant, have the ability to designate one person. Maybe throw in there the caveat that a Cohort gained through Most Trusted Servant can also be pulled in the same way. Also, why make this an Essence container?

Peerless Hex: When you bind this Hex to a slot, do you actually make it able to affect the world, or is it purely ornamental? My trusty Cackle Saber giggles as it cuts through everyone! I do like this ability. The power of the additional abilities granted based on the Veil slot that is being used scales well. Editing note: this is out of order as to where it should be.

Grand Hex: See note about Major Hex. We’ll never get here, so this doesn’t matter, buuut...
Enmity Unending / Legacy: Great for peaceful kings everywhere? On death abilities are… lacking.
Divine Eminence / Spiritual Dominion: Another ability riding on Blessed Land! I would trade the wording “godlike presence” to “majesty”, because you are trying to be a ruler.

No comments on: Arcane Presence, Chakra Binds, and Improved Essence Capacity.

Chapter 2: Archetypes & Mystic Attunements

Besome Witch (Witch Archetype): No problem with this, actually kind of like it. The veil is versatile and useful enough that it makes it kind of fun. Great, non-invasive archetype for the Witch.

High Priestess (Witch Archetype): I have no problem with any of this, but check your wording on Aura of the Patron’s Grace and Patron’s Voice. For consistency, look at other examples of an archetype taking an altered form of another class’s ability.

May King (Fisherking Archetype): On a whole, this is just meant to be a palette swap, right?
Nature’s Presence: Maybe here is where you would like to put something with the verbiage that any time it is called out to use the Witch’s spell list for something, to use the Druid’s spell list instead? I think that is what you are going for?
Verdant Veil: So this is just a way to share veils with non-Akashic classes? It's implied that you can leave Essence in this veil when you hand it off, is that true? While you cannot add Essence to it while it is shared, can you take the Essence out of it when it is shared? The secondary Plant based effects, why tie it to the mulch… this is purely a fluff thing, but I’d reduce the fuss of it and just make it 1/day ability that you can cast when you need to when the requirements are met.

Path of the Hexweaver (Vizier Mystic Attunement): Editing note: please, for organization sake, do not throw this in the middle of the archetypes. Other than that, I like this. One of the things that I always thought Vizier suffered from (and all the Akashic classes that use some sort of internal theme) was that there was like 3 of each theme. More options is better. I also think that there aren’t enough Ring (or specific class based Veil) options for the Vizier. It’s a two birds, one stone scenario. Even the amount of hexes you give is okay, because they have to use a class ability to swap it out. The casting can be powerful, when you get up higher in levels,but the Essence Burn on the class helps with this.

Regnant Magister (Vizier Archetype): Mystic Attunement is one of the lynchpins of the Vizier, but you are replacing it with a lesser form of casting that is still dependent on Essence. By and by, I’m okay with this, but there is one problem with it. How does it work?
If you invest 5 Essence into this ability, do you gain the ability to cast 3 spells total of any level or is it 3 spell slots per spell level? Depending on the way it works, it can be a very versatile and extremely limited use, or essentially the Amplifier prestige class in archetype form. When you decide to invest Essence into this ability, is it bound (and if so, please put the correct verbiage in for that)? If it is the limited use version, at most you are going to get 4 casts total (you can shove 8 essence into something without using Catalysts, which donÂ’t work on class features).
The familiar and it’s abilities are fine.

Senator (Rajah Archetype): This seems fine, -4 bardic performance level seems fine. Do they get all of the available performances types, or do you think that they should be limited in that fashion… Gaining the entirety of a classes ability set (even at a reduced rate) with very little trade off doesn’t seem that great. Especially with an initiator based class that already operates in two systems. I don’t mind putting the Voice ability in or the change of Heraldry.

Warden (Fisherking Archetype): Containment field feels a lot better than Blessed Land, more evened out. This class feature has a reason to pump essence into it, an area of effect miss chance on ranged is nice. Maybe advanced the base at every few levels as well. Otherwise it falls off to other effects and veils. Nothing Must Escape is interesting and saves it later.
Secure seems like a meaningless Essence container.
Jailer and Jailed seems like a great ability, but not for a one hex trade off.
Warden’s Signet, another great ability, but the trade off just isn’t there, there is no upward limit to the amount of prisoner's rings you could create and use for this. I imagine a Warden making a nice tidy spy network out of these.

Chapter 4: Veilweaving

I’m just going to go through these one at a time and give thoughts to them.

Enchantress's Accoutrements and Royal Trappings, I love the broad groupings of similarly themed veils, and I’m glad you continued using this.

Eldest Fey’s Diadem: Disposable hex applier? The only problem I see with the base form of this ability is, the Improved Familiar feat addendum. They are only going to have this if the character is a caster as well, or if an investment was made to get a familiar somehow. The question is do you want it to be an actual option or if it's a fun side benefit to the Veil? Other ways to get it is, have the creature swap at higher Essence investment, or make it an addition on to one of the binding abilities (like the Headband).

Pact Binder’s Pendant: Like this, and the bind effect makes it broad enough that you don’t need to be a caster to use it. Bueno!

Frostweave: Fine, base effect comparable to a weaker version of Circlet of Brass. The binds happen so late in the game that they do not matter.

Vain Queen’s Hand Mirror: To me this is fluff Veil. The mace (light or heavy, or does it matter?) doesn’t bypass DR, so, even with the amount of damage it potentially can do, it’ll fall off in later levels where there is something better to spend Essence on. I feel like the augury/divination at 5 Essence I’ve seen somewhere before too. I also would struggle to find a use for the creature summoned by the Chakra Bind.

Witch’s Broom: I like this, a caster weapon that you can use to gently tap out Attacks of Opportunity with. The flight effect on binding is kinda fun as well.

King’s Keys: Okay, use the keys to open doors and punch people, got it. I do not understand the Belt bind. The theme of “key” for this veil should mean you open something, not go around it via Gaseous Form. Perhaps some verbiage that allows you to pass through portal in the form of stronger variation on the Knock spell?

Sword of Kingship: The Wrist Chakra Bind does not use the correct verbiage (like that used by feats for when you can only bind Essence into it once a day). Also, this is an interesting choice if you have multiple Veilweavers in your party. I really have no gauge for how strong this actually is.

Voice Veils: I have no point of reference for the Kingdom Effects, so I will be ignoring them.

Declaration of War: This bonus can get pretty high, but you can summon a dog, so you get a pass.

Divine Mandate: This is what I imagine Paul Atredes uses in Dune. The Voice bind is confusing, it sounds like you can place Essence into it AND bind Essence into it. This is confusing, and nonstandard within the system, can you only apply the amount of Essence into it once and there is a choice of what is Bound or what is placed? Or are is Essence being Bound into the veil once a day a kin to the feats verbiage?

Interdiction: The base Veil effect on this could get extremely strong as well. Is this effect a continuous standard action on your part to keep going? After the first standard action, do you continuously scream at the dragon as you run around to maintain it?

Veils that were great, so no commentary needed: Pack Binder’s Pendant, Royal Treasury, Rebuke, Annexation, Diplomatic Overture, Royal Patent, and Stay of Execution.

Overall:

I’m not quite a fan of this class in the form it is now. I find the theme a bit to be off from what you took the inspiration from (parent classes). I’m not a fan some of the mechanics. An example is how the House of Servant stand in works. Another example is having class based Essence receptacles that do virtually nothing upon investment. There are also a lot of abilities that are vague. I could go with an editor run through to get the verbiage down for abilities throughout the document to maintain system consistency (you know, the thing Paizo never really does).

Archetype-wise, you hit gold the majority of the time, I think a lot of them are interesting. The Witch ones are great, and seem to be a lot of fun. The Besome Witch especially. If I could figure out how the Regnant Magister worked, I've already got something lined up for it. The Path of the Hexweaver is a great additional attunement, and I really appreciate the inspiration that got you to it. I do like the veils that you put together a lot, especially the Voice Veils. I feel like I wouldn't hesitate swapping these base for the Ring veils for a Vizier (as stated above, I think the Ring veils lack variety, and I consider them to be mostly awful).

Suggestions:

This is a take it or leave it section, you are the author and I’m a pleb. I’m going to throw out an idea, don’t give him the Vizier list, give him the Rajah list for Veils. Give him House of Servants and Heraldries, create new and interesting Heraldries based on that. Give him the Voice Veils, but create new Title Veils that are negative titles you can pump essence into, provide penalties for if the creature saves and if it doesn’t (rationale, a King grants titles, gives names, but not all epitaphs are positive). I believe that would cement your role as a leader type class, in a similar vein as the Rajah, but add the debuffing factor that I think you might be going for. The Voice Veils at that point would operate as your active abilities.

I think with what you laid out, you can add options to not only your own but other Akashic classes as well. I’m no lawyer, I don’t know if any of these suggestions are viable due to licensing.

Thank you for your time, and I hope this helps.

[Kris Moonhand]

Nightlandr, you had a lot going on here, so I'm just gonna kinda reply at random.

Firstly, I would point out that a hybrid class doesn't need to have the same themes as its parents. Look at the Swashbuckler, it has Gunslinger as a parent and doesn't use guns at all. Also, putting Rajah in as a parent would imply that the class should use PoW, and it doesn't.

I don't think it's a law that a class has to have the same ability score as its parents. Swashbuckler uses Cha while Gunslinger uses Wis (and Fighter doesn't have a mental score). Shaman uses Wis while Witch and Oracle use Int and Cha, respectively. And being Cha-based fits a ruler class more than Int.

I'd disagree that getting Major and Grand Hexes is unusual. There are archetypes for other classes that get them as well.

I agree about King's Keys. Maybe change it to passwall (https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Passwall) instead of gaseous form?

If we're going to be talking changing lists, I'd suggest using the slightly less powerful Nexus list over the Rajah list. The Rajah list is extremely limited and has a lot of overlap with PoW. Which is fine if you're playing a Rajah, since obviously your DM is allowing PoW. But not good for a singularly-focused veilweaver.

I noticed that several times in your post you said that certain abilities are "so high level they don't matter". That's a really bad way of looking at things, especially from a game design perspective. Not every game starts at level 1 and ends at level 12. My Radiant in my home game just hit level 18 and got access to Body binds, and I've been playing her since level 12 when my Alchemist died.

[nightlandr]

Nightlandr, you had a lot going on here, so I'm just gonna kinda reply at random.

Firstly, I would point out that a hybrid class doesn't need to have the same themes as its parents. Look at the Swashbuckler, it has Gunslinger as a parent and doesn't use guns at all. Also, putting Rajah in as a parent would imply that the class should use PoW, and it doesn't.

I don't think it's a law that a class has to have the same ability score as its parents. Swashbuckler uses Cha while Gunslinger uses Wis (and Fighter doesn't have a mental score). Shaman uses Wis while Witch and Oracle use Int and Cha, respectively. And being Cha-based fits a ruler class more than Int.

I'd disagree that getting Major and Grand Hexes is unusual. There are archetypes for other classes that get them as well.

I agree about King's Keys. Maybe change it to passwall instead of gaseous form?

If we're going to be talking changing lists, I'd suggest using the slightly less powerful Nexus list over the Rajah list. The Rajah list is extremely limited and has a lot of overlap with PoW. Which is fine if you're playing a Rajah, since obviously your DM is allowing PoW. But not good for a singularly-focused veilweaver.

I noticed that several times in your post you said that certain abilities are "so high level they don't matter". That's a really bad way of looking at things, especially from a game design perspective. Not every game starts at level 1 and ends at level 12. My Radiant in my home game just hit level 18 and got access to Body binds, and I've been playing her since level 12 when my Alchemist died.

I'm going to go through this point by point:

On a theme basis, Gunslinger and Swashbuckler use the theme of a luck dependent system, because they are suppose to be reckless and "let's roll the dice" type people, guns are just the main piece of equipment that a Gunslinger uses (like whatever weapon the Swashbuckler tries to use). I understand what you are saying, but, to my understanding, the point of the hybrids was to take a distinctive part of one class and mash it in to the other with a hybridized mechanic. I mean, hell, there isn't really a hybridized mechanic in the Fisherking, there is barely one in the suggestions I offered.

By the argument before and after the Rajah statement, you negate it yourself. Theme-wise the Fisherking apes a lot from the Rajah (also mechanically). I believe the author intended this to be a caster version of the theme, correct me if I'm wrong (I based a lot of what I wrote on this).

There may be more variations on the hybrids not sharing the mental stat value from it's parent, as I called out with Shaman in the actual post. The majority of the time there is a shared stat from hybrid to parent. I never argued that the social stat didn't fit a social themed character, just that it didn't follow the pattern.

There are a few, Hexcrafter Magus and Divine Scourge Clerics, receive up to Grand. Hoaxer Bard gets up to Major. There are probably more that just receive Hex. Three first party (that I can find or find reference to) archetypes. To me that seems very uncommon.

Thanks for the backup on the Keys.

Nexus is a weird beast, it is such an even mix of physical and magic combat with weird utility thrown in. The Rajah list has no overlap to the actual Path of War system (as in it does not affect Maneuvers or Stances), it is it's own thing, just on top of a PoW chassis.

I'm happy that you are able to get so far in a game. Honestly, I've only experienced that a few times, and not for long. By the time I get to the levels, the game is just about over. In these statements I'm playing to averages, while not every game starts at 1 or ends at 12, you probably pass over a significant portion of that landscape if you are going to stop at 16-20. The other things, whatever shenanigans that a veilweaver can pull at level 20 pales in comparison to a Wizard at that level.

Thank you for helping me clear up points on this, the run through that I put up took me too long, and I fear I got sloppy when I was double checking it.

-nightlandr

[Kris Moonhand]

The Venomous interacts with Steel Serpent. The Primordial gives Animus, which is a PoW thing. And while the others don't specifically call out PoW maneuvers, they are all thematically linked to a certain discipline, like The Dragon for Thrashing Dragon, The Ephemeral for Veiled Moon, The Fallen for Black Seraph, etc. They give bonuses to a discipline's associated skill, interact with certain kinds of mechanics (like drawing and sheathing weapons for The Wind and Mithral Current, or the curse condition for The Watcher and Eternal Guardian) and other such things.

As well, as has been pointed out by other akashic creators, the Rajah veils break a lot of akashic guidelines in order to mesh with PoW. Lots of free action effects and untyped bonuses with very large scaling. Combine that with Titles being slotless (yes, they don't take up the akashic slots when shaped on other creatures) and you may see why putting them on a high veilweaver with a large essence pool and capacity like the Fisherking is a bad idea. Especially if you have other veilweavers in the campaign.

Rajah veils are made for Rajahs. Rajahs have less veils shaped than even Daevic, only get a single essence capacity boost (that only works on veils and class features), and have only 5 binds, in order to somewhat mitigate the strength of Titles. While I'd be lying if I said I didn't want more Titles, giving the whole pile of them to the Fisherking is a bad idea. Like how Clerics and Paladins share Channel Energy, but only Paladins have Smite Evil and Divine Grace, while only Clerics have 9th level magic.

[nightlandr]

The Venomous interacts with Steel Serpent. The Primordial gives Animus, which is a PoW thing. And while the others don't specifically call out PoW maneuvers, they are all thematically linked to a certain discipline, like The Dragon for Thrashing Dragon, The Ephemeral for Veiled Moon, The Fallen for Black Seraph, etc. They give bonuses to a discipline's associated skill, interact with certain kinds of mechanics (like drawing and sheathing weapons for The Wind and Mithral Current, or the curse condition for The Watcher and Eternal Guardian) and other such things.

As well, as has been pointed out by other akashic creators, the Rajah veils break a lot of akashic guidelines in order to mesh with PoW. Lots of free action effects and untyped bonuses with very large scaling. Combine that with Titles being slotless (yes, they don't take up the akashic slots when shaped on other creatures) and you may see why putting them on a high veilweaver with a large essence pool and capacity like the Fisherking is a bad idea. Especially if you have other veilweavers in the campaign.

Rajah veils are made for Rajahs. Rajahs have less veils shaped than even Daevic, only get a single essence capacity boost (that only works on veils and class features), and have only 5 binds, in order to somewhat mitigate the strength of Titles. While I'd be lying if I said I didn't want more Titles, giving the whole pile of them to the Fisherking is a bad idea. Like how Clerics and Paladins share Channel Energy, but only Paladins have Smite Evil and Divine Grace, while only Clerics have 9th level magic.

I'll concede the point to you in that the Title veils and PoW disciplines were made in a thematic way that allows them to interact while maintaining the independence of both the systems. It's one of the reasons I hate Radiant Dawn so much, it's useful, but I don't want to be interacting with multiple systems to get the most out of something (I'm big on speed for combat). It also goes a long way to see how different people play. Honestly, I never paid attention to the interaction, I looked at a lot of title veils and saw that they were useful because I WASN'T taking certain Disciplines or my party could have used something that it offered, like the teleport from The Ephemeral or the sheer utility that the Primordial offers when you have nothing to spend the Animus you generate on.

With the middle paragraph, please site a source on that. I don't necessarily disagree with the assessment, but I'd like to see where that came from.

I take it you did not read down to the suggestion part, and just hinged on the Title veils part. That's fine if you in particular don't like the idea of using Title veils. To me they offered an avenue to make this class playable, that is, creating something that is the reverse of a Title veil seems to me like a hybridization of the Akasha mechanics and Hexes that he may have been looking for. Honestly, with the way this class is shaping up, I would much prefer to play a Vizier who asked his DM to get rid of Ring Veils for Voice Veils. I cannot stress how much I like the Voice veils, but I find the chassis to be... lacking. As I said, it just looks like looking for an excuse to throw Hex's into an Akashic class. There are ways to do something similar without doing exactly the same thing.

Moving on to a separate point but semi-connected point. Something I hate about the Akasha system. "Let's make a new Veil slot for every new class that comes out" and "Let's make sure that it is *this particular classes* schtick". I understand the need for a varying list of what is accessible, but this is getting old. Hell, I'm more likely to play a Eclipse, Guru, Nexus, and Radiant because they don't do it. By and by, I ignore the Ring Slot on Viziers (the least interesting out of any of these "Special" slots). It is one of the reasons I felt the above, that something else should gain access to Titles and use them in a similar or different way, just so that there was the access. (Also, a note so that it does not seem that I'm sticking my foot in my mouth, Akasha is an alternative to the Vancian magic system, Hex is a class ability that is used by someone who uses a Vancian magic casting set. To me this is like saying that a Wizard absolutely cannot use this specific pool of spells right out of the gate, no questions asked, but you can feat into it if you want.)

-nightlandr

[Awun]

Alright I am going to declare this playtest closed. Though I will be replying to the last round of comments in the next day or two. I want to once again say "thank you" to you all. The comments and suggestions have been very helpful. I plan on leaving the playtest document up as it currently exists, while I work on editing and revising this material.

[Awun]

nightlandr,
Wow, thank you. Yes, your feedback definitely helps. I’m glad you like the parts you mentioned liking, and equally greatful for your comments on the rest. While I’m not going to hit on all of your points, some of which are in the process of being addressed, here are the ones that seemed pressing.

Chapter 1
Themes: Kris echos my own thoughts on this point.

Class Abilities:
Blessed Land: The essence ability is being addressed.

Royal Attendants: Thematically this ability is linked with blessed land based on the idea that the servants are an extension of the fisherking’s influence on the land around him. Mechanically, the range defaults to the base radius of blessed land ability. The combination could create added complexity, but it is not necessary and is intended as a conditional bonus as there would be a narrow band of circumstances where a slight increase in range would be needed. The increase to strength and number would make the servants more useful for carrying items, rearranging the fisherking’s furniture, ect. Good catch on the aid another bit, that will be corrected. A horde of "free" aid another actions could be an issue. 4The livery concern is being addressed. On the matter of picking the servant abilities, these arose as the result of comments relating to a wish to see expanded options for the servants. In terms of mechanical “power” a hex will win, but thematically the servant options are appropriate for a social/ruler character. If the fisherking wishes to create an image of power or opulence when holding court or entertaining guests the servant powers fit

Hex(Royal Coven): Similar to Coven the hag potion is a pretty rare circumstance, but also in common is that the meat of this is the bonus when having multiple instances of this class in a single group.

Hex(Most Trusted Servant): Fair point on the double limitation.

Regal Presence: The “and or” should have just read “or”. There are other veils that could fill the purpose, this ability gives the fisherking access to this type of effect without eating into his limited number of veils.

Major Hex(Call to Court): The container function is to impose a slight pressure to self limit the use of this ability, and to somewhat account for the fact that the return is effectively a greater teleport.

Peerless Hex: The form, similar to the forms of most veils, is ornamental. Though a well disguised Peerless Hex could be worth a circumstance bonus in certain circumstances(depends on the GM).

Chapter 2

May King: I’ll review the language of verdant veil. The mulch is entirely fluff, tastes vary on the matter of fluff vs no fluff. It could easily be ignored in favor of the raw mechanics if someone is not fond of it.

Regnant Magister: Let's say that a regnant magister that knows 5th level spells invests 5 essence into spell lore. They would have 3 5th level spell slots. Each of these slots can be used to cast a spell of level 1-5 that he knows. I’ll review the phrasing but it does call out binding essence and essence bound into the ability. Powerful but limited spell casting was the goal, a max of 4 slots that can each be used for up to a 9th level spell was what I had in mind.

Senator: In this case I think that limiting the options available would be too much. Aside from the -4 penalty to effective performance level, they are gaining a limited use ability in exchange for what is effectively an at will ability.

Warden: Secure, is somewhat circumstantial. However, such abilities are not uncommon in classes and archetypes that occupy an unique niche. Consider this ability in the context of a siege warfare or intrigue based game. Good catch on jailer and jail, it does too much relative to the trade. Warden’s signet does not have an upper limit on the number, but there is the question of the utility of the rings vs the cost and time to craft them. A spy network based on these could be useful under the right circumstances, of course you have to “convince” people to wear them first.

Chapter 4
Eldest Fey’s Diadem: There was an faq related to veils that grant class abilities and how they interact with prerequisites. For example the ability to shape a veil that grants an animal companion fulfills the prerequisites for the Boon Companion Feat. Though I do need to adjust the language here, the intent is that the ability to shape this veil would allow you to qualify for the Improved Familiar feat. The expansion to the available familiars is meant to be an added bonus for characters that “specialize” in it. That said I do like the idea of adding access to the improved familiar options via a bind as an additional option.

Kings Keys: Fair point here.

Interdiction: My mental image of this one is basically the veilweaver constantly scolding or chastising the selected creature. Or after the initial shout, the target flinching each time the veilweaver says anything. As for the duration, once it is activativated it is continuous until its end clause applies. That clause is being updated to read “This bonus lasts as long as the selected creature can hear your voice or until you select a new creature”. Sustaining it would would not take an action, but if you become unable to speak or a circumstance such as distance or deafness would make the creature incapable of hearing your voice the effect would end.



Kris Moonhand,
The backing ability score was something that has been questioned before, and the class being ruler themed is indeed the reason for the choice. Though I must admit it did try to justify making the class intelligence based like its parents a few times, but there was no need and it didn’t make sense.

[Awun]

Hello everyone. Once again I want to offer my thanks to everyone that took part in the playtest. Your feedback was extremely helpful. As some of you have noticed, The Fisherking has been released. Sorry for not letting you all know sooner.