Question about Sword of Deception

[Max Caysey]

Hi guys...

I was reading about the spell Sword of Deception, and it says: "Though it makes regular melee attacks, the sword strikes as a spell..." So are we to understand that it targets or hits touch AC or normal AC? I'm confused about the strikes as a spell part.

Cheers!

[Segev]

Hi guys...

I was reading about the spell Sword of Deception, and it says: "Though it makes regular melee attacks, the sword strikes as a spell..." So are we to understand that it targets or hits touch AC or normal AC? I'm confused about the strikes as a spell part.

Cheers!

To my knowledge, there's no rule saying spells strike touch AC by default; all the spells that do specify that they do. "Striking as a spell" does things like trigger Spell Resistance, or make it hedged out by a globe of invulnerability, or the like.

[Angrith]

I interpret it as regular melee attack indicating regular AC and "strike as a spell" meaning it triggers SR, etc.

[Max Caysey]

To my knowledge, there's no rule saying spells strike touch AC by default; all the spells that do specify that they do. "Striking as a spell" does things like trigger Spell Resistance, or make it hedged out by a globe of invulnerability, or the like.


I interpret it as regular melee attack indicating regular AC and "strike as a spell" meaning it triggers SR, etc.

I see... I was wondering if it might be something akin to how you you hit with a spell, which is usually a ranged or melee touch attack...

[Segev]

I see... I was wondering if it might be something akin to how you you hit with a spell, which is usually a ranged or melee touch attack...

Again, to my knowledge, that’s just very common. The spells that do that say they do that. If sword of deception was a touch attack, it would have said so, the same way blade of pain and fear does.

[Thurbane]

Hadn't really looked at that spell before, seems a bit...meh. For a 4th level spell, it's basically a Spiritual Weapon that inflicts a save penalty on one save.

And while SW takes a move action to redirect to a new target, SoD takes a standard action. At least it can flank, I guess.

[Max Caysey]

Hadn't really looked at that spell before, seems a bit...meh. For a 4th level spell, it's basically a Spiritual Weapon that inflicts a save penalty on one save.

And while SW takes a move action to redirect to a new target, SoD takes a standard action. At least it can flank, I guess.

The real question was actually about Sword of Darkness, but since that spells says "Like Sword of Deception, I thought I ask about that, and get my answer anywho... Problem is, that its not a high attack bonus it attacks with, so if its not a touch attack then its going to be difficult actually hitting with this spell...

[KillianHawkeye]

"Strikes as a spell" means that it will ignore DR.

[Max Caysey]

"Strikes as a spell" means that it will ignore DR.

Ahh yes... good to know that. Hadn't thought about that actually. Cool.

In any case, it seems like a difficult spell yo use at higher levels. Is there a way to increase its attack bonus or make it a touch attack?

Cheers!

[Angrith]

Sword of Deception:
The blade attacks with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level

That's the equivalent of full BAB right there. What's the issue? Although you could boost your CL with some of the tricks here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?122825-3-5-Raising-Caster-Level).

EDIT: Just re-read and saw you don't get to add your casting stat to the attack roll. I assumed you did for some reason.

[Max Caysey]

That's the equivalent of full BAB right there. What's the issue? Although you could boost your CL with some of the tricks here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?122825-3-5-Raising-Caster-Level).

EDIT: Just re-read and saw you don't get to add your casting stat to the attack roll. I assumed you did for some reason.

Yes, that is specifically why its hard to hit with in my opinion. Like, Mordenkainens Sword hits fine, that includes casting stat and +3 enchantment... Sword of Darkness/Deception only CL.

Even at CL 20, any knight worth his salt is going to be sporting at least AC 30, and probably closer to 40. Same goes for rogues, wizards, and many creatures with high natural armor...

So although its cool, its probably not going to be worth memorizing...