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Altair_the_Vexed
2020-04-27, 10:34 AM
I have a tiefling character, who was raised by nuns, and aspires to the values of LG, but is naturally disposed to Evil.

I want to have him go through a journey self-discipline and discovery - but I don't want to just hand wave it "Oh look, I'm Good now. I was Evil before, but now I'm not!" - I want the other players to get a sense of how nasty he is to start out, and how he's making progress as the game goes along.

Becoming Good is the easy bit - what I'm looking for is how to show that he's Evil at heart to start with, while we're out in the wilds adventuring. The rest of the party is fairly scummy, Neutral rather than Good, maybe even some Evil characters, certainly a bit necromantic at times - so it's hard to think of things that will stand out as Evil, while still being redeemable!

(For the social setting: The whole player group are well experienced, older players, who I know reasonably well - plus a close friend, and my wife, who I maybe know very well :smallbiggrin:
- and we're playing by Discord & Roll20)

Heavenblade
2020-04-27, 11:40 AM
NE, at least as I see it, is the alignment of ultimate selfishness - a NE listens only to himself, and his needs and wants always come first. Thus, in order to stand out as an NE characterz you dont have ot be a BBEG - but be an annoying evil. Think about people who are self centered, full of themselves, careless for the needs and desires of others, believe only they know what is best - a quest in which the character makes mistakes, learns that she is not the smartest, that sometimes she is wrong, will do a grea job of pushing her away from this behaviour - this lets you have clear places to take the steps (each time you make a mistake/someone puts a mirror in front of you), and will allow you to stretch the redmption arc throughout the game - but since your evil actions were noticable to other players, since they were translated into how you talked, acted, and interacted with them - they will also noticw the difference

Spellweaver
2020-04-27, 11:51 AM
You really want the DM to set things up for you.

If you just randomly do alignment things on your own, they won't come out very good. You can see something happen in the game and take the good side...and sigh, stop the game and point out to the DM and the other players that your character is talking the good side. But that will get old quick.

But by having the DM put in alignment twists and turns, not specifically at your character, but there to be used as part of the story will work out to be gold.

kyoryu
2020-04-27, 12:49 PM
I'd start by going to straight up neutral.

Have your character slowly develop a conscience. Have them see some of the harm they're causing with their evil deeds. Have them start to realize that, yeah, what they got was good for them, but was it worth it?

Better yet, have people do evil things to them. Have them feel the hurt of being the victim, and then when they're about to do the same thing to others, have that first glimmer of empathy spark in them.

At that point, they're still Neutral - still primarily self-centered, just not to the extent of being willing to harm others to further their own needs.

At that point, let them see from some of the good actions they do (which they likely will, if only accidentally) what a positive effect it has. Let them feel how good it is to help others. And let them be, well, self-interestedly good. They do good acts because it feels good to them, because they get praise and adoration for what they're doing. At some point they'll just start doing it for the actual good they're doing and not for the praise. Where the flip to "Good" happens is a good question.

From there I'd look at Lawful. Let them realize how organization can help, and how it can greater leverage efforts and help systemically prevent problems, more than just acting by yourself.

Spore
2020-04-27, 10:34 PM
I'd start by going to straight up neutral.

This. If you start off your tiefling as evil just "because usually Tieflings are evil", your character starts off as unbelievable. Even when avoiding a nature vs. nurture debate here, it is difficult to explain it with "he was just born this way". Be neutral. Help people because your upbringing told you to. Be selfish and greedy because your nature pushes this agenda.

Your first step should be towards law. It should be a conscious choice after some traumatic event. Many situations from normal RP can qualify. Even just a plain old combat encounter. Maybe one where carelessness led to unnecessary death. Maybe the law (as the institution, not the alignment) brought someone to justice.

Then gradually you can shift towards Good. Why good, you ask? Because suddenly people like you. You are cherished as a hero, as a person, not villified. Eventually your reputation preceeds your infernal heritage. Sure, there will be the odd man out that does not want to deal with the "demon man" or "devil incarnate" but they are vastly outweighed.

If you start with evil though, try to avoid the LE corner. Any GM with half a sense for the dramatic WILL tempt you with devils offering random things.

mindstalk
2020-04-28, 01:27 AM
Couple different paths:

Becoming intrinsically LG, developing an instinct for good and justice.

Still being instinctively NE, but developing an admiration for LG, or intellectual decision that it's better, or whatnot, and trying to stick to LG behavior despite being NE at heart. Possibly by taking a role model to stick to, like Bothari in Lois Bujold's books; he was pretty broken if not borderline sociopath, but took an identity as Cordelia's "dog" and used that as his moral guidance. "I wouldn't mind hurting someone, but my role model would disapprove."

I have a fanfic idea where a post-Sauron Ringwraith goes "I remember that good exists, but don't trust myself to make good decisions, I'll go swear to Aragorn and let him guide me."

Or a variant on that, someone who doesn't even have a intellectual commitment to LG, but fell in love with someone who is, and doesn't want to disappoint them. Like late-stage chipped Spike on Buffy, maybe. "I can't let Dawn die, Buffy would suffer."

MoiMagnus
2020-04-28, 06:56 AM
A good way to portrait someone in the middle of Good and Evil is to have someone very "hypocritical", behaving as a complete jerk with most NPCs while being generous and kind with the PCs and some specific NPCs.

As for transition, there are two path I see:

1) The "clever evil". You're character will remain Evil for most of the story, but will progressively adopt "good" behaviour as he sees them as "investments".
a) Gaining the trust of powerful allies is something very valuable from a purely egoistical point of view. Good-aligned peoples are less likely to backstab you. Lawful-aligned peoples are more likely to repay they debt. So LG buddies are the best investment.
b) When you make greater goods for the society, peoples tend to close their eyes over what you did wrong. There is a lot of money to be made by contract with mafia once you won an image of "Hero".
=> How to transit to "truly good"? You can either go with a smooth transition of "becoming what you're faking to be". Or plan with your DM a more drastic change, e.g. an opportunity to betray everyone and win A LOT appears, your character still being evil at heart takes it and temporarily become a villain, but after few times leaving his life of villain, he understand he preferred his life as a good guy, grow regrets, and has now a redemption path to accomplish.

2) The "racist evil". Your character has an hatred against essentially everyone which is not him, and is a complete and cruel jerk with everyone he doesn't like (so almost everyone initially), but behave reasonably kindly and generously with peoples he likes. The transition will go by progressively expanding the set of peoples he likes.
E.g. and aristocrat that only care about his family (and really really hate the poor) -> family + PCs -> peoples who helped him in some way or might help him in the future (LE) -> peoples who follows a certain code (LN) -> ... -> LG.

Elvensilver
2020-05-07, 02:58 PM
As a tiefling, evil is an impulse to you. You do not think about it, it's a sense of security, of having the situation handled if someone else squirms before you. Especially in combat you can simply describe your actions as unnecessary malicious. And you can kick puppies, knock over begging bowls, scare somebody without any reason - just as long it isn't really planed, or while you are calm and serene. You don't even think about these small cruelties, acting oblivious if someone calls you out on them.
As being raised by nuns, you probably have a minimum of social graces, politely saying please and thank you - something to show that you can learn. Maybe they taught you lessons to be mindful and aware of others, some meditation to help with your habits. Only you don't really have time for them right now, they always made you feel funny, you are in an adolescent rebellion phase... Start of the adventure is a good point to slack of a bit, and enjoy the new found freedom, to sink to E. A turning point would be helpful in getting better: you see someone of your nun's faith, your meditation helps against your panic attacks after the horrible goblin fight - and then you start with trying to be good, by following the law. LN is a spot where you can remain very long. A timeperiod where you are cruel on occasion, but if you take time, you see that you didn't follow the rules - till eventually the time to get to that conclusion grows ever shorter.

Seto
2020-05-09, 12:08 PM
I once wrote a TN handbook, and one part of it doubled as a small essay on how to rp alignment change. It doesn't have specifics for your character (examples of Evil acts etc.), but it's a general method. It's in my sig if you think it may be of interest.

Regarding your Tiefling, there seems to be a nature vs. nurture thing going on. You've been raised by nuns and you believe in LG ideals, but your blood, your instincts scream at you to do Evil. Maybe you have strong sadistic pulsions, and it's all you can do to keep them on a leash most of the time. Maybe you have a warped sense of taste and esthetics, and you naturally find screams of pain pleasurable and selfishness unbearable? Like, you know that you should reject Evil and aspire to be Good, but Evil just feels right and Good is just such a chore. Essentially, you know that vegetables are good for you, but they're extremely unpalatable and you have a massive sweet tooth.

So it boils down to: for you, Good is an acquired taste. You're gonna have to force yourself to give up sugar and eat nothing but vegetables until you learn to like it. I suggest you roleplay your character arc as the acquisition of discipline. At first, it's gonna be all about learning to dominate your instincts. About keeping a leash on yourself. Especially since you're aspiring to Lawful Good, the alignment most prone to self-restraint. It's gonna be miserable, and it's gonna come with a healthy amount of self-loathing and guilt. Because you're gonna be weak. You're gonna fail to keep your instincts in check, you're gonna fall off the wagon, and you're gonna commit Evil acts and curse yourself for it, and doubly so because it feels good. You're gonna curse your very nature. You're gonna be confused, torn, and maybe curse the nuns who made you aspire to higher ideals in the first place.
Then something is gonna happen to make you more motivated in becoming LG. Maybe you'll realize how doing Good can actually feel good, or on the contrary you'll do something so bad, you'll blame yourself so much, that you will take the firm resolution to stop. (A milestone, in terms of my essay). That's when you'll enter the realm of Neutrality. You'll have a solid handle on self-discipline, you'll be used to doing Good and you'll actually manage to stop doing Evil. But you'll still be miserable and torn because you're still fighting yourself and your desires every step of the way.
And then one day (another milestone?), you will realize that all your hard work has paid off, to the point of changing your very soul. The more Good you do, the more you will like it, and the less tempting Evil will become. Maybe you'll finally be "redeemed", and Evil will become abhorrent to you. Or maybe you will never be free of the temptation until your last breath. But either way, Good will come to you more naturally, and the misery of fighting your own nature will be lessened. You will have reached a kind of enlightened harmony.

It's not so much about the specific acts that will show that you're Evil, then Neutral, then Good. It's more about how you roleplay those acts. Committing a minor act of Evil, but committing it with abandon, relish, and the reckless relief of a junkie falling off the wagon, may be more of a statement than committing a greater act of Evil.