Changing improved critical to autoconfirm instead of expanding the crit range

[VladtheLad]

I am considering changing improved critical to autoconfirm instead of expanding the crit range.
So with a scimitar if you have improved critical you will crit on 15-20 and then roll for confirmation.
With the change you wil have to roll 18-20 but you will need no confirmation.
How will this affect things?

I also dislike player getting blow to bits by scythes and axes so I am also considering changing the *3 crit to 19-20 crit and the *4 crit to 18-20.
Same question here.

To me it seems that the game will play just as normal and that there will be less rolls required.
Obviously abilities that already grant you autoconfirm will need to be swapped or changed.

[RNightstalker]

It's not far fetched. Confirming criticals was a new element in 3.x. There are quite a few things that would have to be changed when it comes to abilities and whatnot, as there are a fair amount that either increase the range or auto-confirm the critical hit. What happens under your houserule if someone has both Improved Critical and a keen weapon? What about Dolorous Blow? What about abilities that expand the critical multiplier?

[VladtheLad]

It's not far fetched. Confirming criticals was a new element in 3.x. There are quite a few things that would have to be changed when it comes to abilities and whatnot, as there are a fair amount that either increase the range or auto-confirm the critical hit. What happens under your houserule if someone has both Improved Critical and a keen weapon? What about Dolorous Blow? What about abilities that expand the critical multiplier?

Improved Critical & Keen Weapon: Treat them the same they don't stack. Also keen does what improved crit does.
Dolorous Blow: I suppose it would work the same? Double crit range and cause autoconfirm?

Hmmm I don't know about abilities that expand the critical modifier, I guess if they stack with the old improved crit they should stack with the new one.

[icefractal]

(combined with the multiplier -> range change) It'll make things that auto-crit less valuable, but there aren't many of those, so if you tell people ahead of time they can just not take them.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

I put this math together the other day for a discussion of stacking crit mods:
Assuming the player hits on an 11 or above:
With confirmation:
18-20: 11.5 damage
x4: 11.5 damage
x2: 10.5 damage

Add in Keen:
15-20: 13 damage
19-20x4: 13 damage
19-20x2: 11 damage

Imp Crit+Keen:
12-20: 14.5 damage
18-20x4: 14.5 damage
18-20x2: 11.5 damage

Imp Crit+Keen, favorable stacking rules:
9-20: 15 damage
17-20x4: 16 damage
17-20x2: 12 damage

Wacky min-maxed crit chances:
2-20x2: 15 damage
15-20x4: 19 damage
11-20x4: 25 damage
Autoconfirm:
18-20: 13 damage
x4: 13 damage
x2: 11 damage

Add in Keen:
15-20: 16 damage
19-20x4: 16 damage
19-20x2: 12 damage

Imp Crit+Keen:
12-20: 19 damage
18-20x4: 19 damage
18-20x2: 13 damage

Imp Crit+Keen, favorable stacking rules:
9-20: 20 damage
17-20x4: 22 damage
17-20x2: 14 damage.

Short answers:
Crits with confirmation are a 15% damage increase with a rapier or scythe, increasing by 15% each time you add Keen or similar. Auto-confirm doubles that, crits now being an avg 30% increase in damage, Keen etc increasing that by 30%. Altering the chance to-hit can modify the result a good amount.

x4 and 18-20x2 are exactly the same damage increase until your threat range gets to be better than your chance to hit.

Crit-stacking is not a problem IMO even with auto-confirm, as basically any other way of boosting damage is a better increase and more reliable.

That said, I'd leave the scythe etc the same. Players may want the boosted damage for various reasons, including just preference, but if it worries you to use them just don't. More greatswords, fewer greataxes.

[VladtheLad]

Crits with confirmation are a 15% damage increase with a rapier or scythe, increasing by 15% each time you add Keen or similar. Auto-confirm doubles that, crits now being an avg 30% increase in damage, Keen etc increasing that by 30%. Altering the chance to-hit can modify the result a good amount.



Wait, I meant autoconfirm without the increased crit range. So autoconfirm is basically about the same as doubling the crit range?

[Xervous]

Auto confirm’s performance vs doubling range is dependent on what your hut chance is to begin with.

Let
H = hit chance
R = crit range width
M = crit multiplier
D = damage that is scaled by a crit
Auto confirm’s value up until the point where a non 20 crit misses outright is:

D*(H + R/20 * (M-1))

Forced to confirm hits the expression changes to:

D*(H + R/20 * (M-1) *H)

For a given example of 2x crit, 18-20 range, at the low end of 15% hit chance you see a 74% increase in damage. At the 50% hit rate you see 24%. At 95% it’s a marginal 0.7%

Doubling the crit range without auto confirm in the above case will match the average damage output of auto confirm at the 50% hit chance mark. Above that (where I expect any respectable build to have most of its attacks) you see the doubles crit range winning handily. Playing around with different inputs you’ll see that auto confirm always* ties doubled crit range at 50% hit chance (twice as many crits that only confirm half the time). For competent characters the change from doubled range to auto confirm is a nerf.

* excepting <10-20 crit ranges.

[Kayblis]

If you're planning on having the first crit mod resulting in autoconfirm and the second working as normal, it's a nerf to crit builds, but not a big one. If you plan on all crit mods just defaulting to autoconfirm, it kills crit builds as whole.

About the crit multiplier part, you could make the weapons x2 with the increased range, but then I ask you the question: If they're the same as weapons that already exist, why do they exist at all?
Slashing weapons already look samey enough, their differences is damage dice used and crit ranges. If you turn an axe into a longsword, why do you have axes in your game in the first place? If a scythe is literally just a falchion, why have scythes and falchions both exist? You're just killing variety, and could very well opt to not use the weapons you don't like. This is not an issue that needs fixing.

[RNightstalker]

Overall, if it's something you want to do, go ahead and do it. Most of it will depend upon the players at the table, and most of that will depend if anyone planned on a build that required IC.