Using HD for more things in 5e

[SunderedWorldDM]

Hit dice. They're underutilized in 5e, especially compared to some earlier editions. After reading too much Goblin Punch and other OSR blogs, I was thinking about how HD could be used more in 5e. While mechanics for subclasses and such are really interesting, I'm probing here for ideas I can bring into my 5e game for all my players (and perhaps even my monsters) to enjoy...

Here are some of my ideas:
1) Using HD in spell effects. Some things like instead of rolling a bunch of dice for Sleep, figure it out so your roll total targets the number of HD creatures have. Things like that, where number of HD has an impact on whether a creature can be affected by a spell.
2) Some option that allows HD to be used in battle for swift healing: something like Healing Surges from 4e, maybe? A set number of times, you can use X HD to regain HP in the middle of combat. I'm sure some people have made this and worked it already?
3) Somehow making short rests more valuable than long rests in adventuring scenarios. How can a DM incentivize taking short rests instead of long? Maybe enforce encounters in long rests, but make short rests "immune" to being interrupted? Making your adventures work under a heavy time constraint? I don't know, you tell me!
4) Using HD to cure ailments? I don't know, maybe you could expend HD to stave off illnesses and conditions. So if you're succumbing to Fantasy Covid, you can use 5 HD or whatever to cure yourself, and so HD become a resource that you'll have to expend.

Give me your best ideas/house rules! I'm excited to see how we can utilize this underutilized mechanic.

[Mith]

Unfortunately I do not have an idea for using HD for fueling effects, but perhaps this re envisioning of HD might give ideas.

Stepping away from HD at first, imagine giving every character the maximum hit points.

Divide these into two HP pools. The first gets treated like HP regularly, the second only gets damaged on a critical hit where the regular damage roll (So a critical dagger strike does 1d4+Dex to the 2nd pool or 2d4+Dex to the 1st pool with bleed over into the 2nd when the 1st is depleted)

Now the 2nd pool of points can be used to spend to get HD to roll and recover and charge the 1st pool of HP, or spent on other things (perhaps convert to spell points). I like the point idea, because you can assign point values to various dice (2 = d4, 3 = d6,..6 = d12) and then allow recovery time based on dice rolled (and probably other mechanics required). It may be too much work to make useful, but I like the idea that you have to balance keeping vitality up and your recovery resources. If you recover half of 2nd pool back on a long rest, you then take time to recover from a serious fight, and could be set back by a serious blow.

Basically a Vitality and Wounds system that makes HD idea of 5e actively considered throughout the game.

[Damon_Tor]

Kieth Baker's Eberron supplement "Morgrave Miscellany" features several subclasses which utilize hit dice in very interesting ways. It's unofficial content, but Baker's status as the originator of Eberron buys it a little extra credibility in my book (and at my table). There are some balance issues with the book, to be clear, so vet it carefully, but it's worth checking out if only to see some classes that utilize hit dice in some interesting ways.

[DracoDei]

Is the following relevant?

One class feature I have playtested successfully* was "Forgo the normal benefits of a short rest on yourself to double the effects of HD rolled for up to Cha. Mod. allies. They may spend half hit-die to roll a single hit-die. Forgo the benefits of a long rest on yourself to cause up to Cha. Mod. allies to recover all HD, instead of only half their maximum."
*Albeit not in a very tough or super-tightly-balanced campaign.

The idea is that you are paying minute attention to the wounds of others at the expense of resting yourself.

If you changed it from Charisma based to Wisdom based, you could make this a feat, or even an alternative that Life Clerics could take instead of getting extra on their healing spells(EDIT: Disciple of Life domain feature, maybe bump Disciple of Life up to replace "Blessed Healer"). In either case you could require proficiency in Medicine to take the feat/alternate benefit.

[SunderedWorldDM]

Is the following relevant?

Certainly! That's a neat feature!

[Arkhios]

How do you spend a half hit die? What happens to the other half?

[DracoDei]

How do you spend a half hit die?
0.5*2=1
You roll a normal hit-die, with constitution modifier, to recover hit-points as normal. It just only COSTS you half a hit-die from your pool.


What happens to the other half?
You keep it for the same use later, unless your pool recovers to full, at which point it becomes irrelevant.

That clear enough, or should I provide an example?

[Sparky McDibben]

3) Somehow making short rests more valuable than long rests in adventuring scenarios. How can a DM incentivize taking short rests instead of long? Maybe enforce encounters in long rests, but make short rests "immune" to being interrupted? Making your adventures work under a heavy time constraint? I don't know, you tell me!

I've had the most luck by incentivizing short rests with resource gains, combined with 4-6 encounter long days.

From what I've seen, there are three classes (barbarian, rogue, and sorcerer) who get nothing but hit points back on a short rest. I gave barbarians and rogues a 1st or 2nd level spell once per rest, or, if they had racial spells, had those reset on a short rest. For the sorcerer, I just made sorcery points refresh on a short rest. I didn't have a problem, but YMMV.

I find it's best practice to tie these changes to a magic item, if you can. That way, if you need to retcon, you have an associated mechanical thing to fix. In addition, you can use a Catastrophe Die (see the WebDM episode on cursed items) to generate a cool choice for the player: do I keep the demon-possessed amulet, despite knowing it demands a sacrifice, or try to destroy/cleanse/reforge it in an attempt to keep some power?

Finally, on getting to 4-6 encounters, dial down the difficulty. Let them get 3 encounters in before you turn up the heat. I've found using a few enemies who deal minor damage a great way to slowly tax the party's resources.

Just my two cents.

[SunderedWorldDM]

I've had the most luck by incentivizing short rests with resource gains, combined with 4-6 encounter long days.

From what I've seen, there are three classes (barbarian, rogue, and sorcerer) who get nothing but hit points back on a short rest. I gave barbarians and rogues a 1st or 2nd level spell once per rest, or, if they had racial spells, had those reset on a short rest. For the sorcerer, I just made sorcery points refresh on a short rest. I didn't have a problem, but YMMV.

I find it's best practice to tie these changes to a magic item, if you can. That way, if you need to retcon, you have an associated mechanical thing to fix. In addition, you can use a Catastrophe Die (see the WebDM episode on cursed items) to generate a cool choice for the player: do I keep the demon-possessed amulet, despite knowing it demands a sacrifice, or try to destroy/cleanse/reforge it in an attempt to keep some power?

Finally, on getting to 4-6 encounters, dial down the difficulty. Let them get 3 encounters in before you turn up the heat. I've found using a few enemies who deal minor damage a great way to slowly tax the party's resources.

Just my two cents.
Great ideas! I'll be sure to use a few of these in my games, especially with the pacing: I've always been too nice to interrupt player's long rests in the middle of adventures, and I'm thinking that those days are over now.

[Sparky McDibben]

Great ideas! I'll be sure to use a few of these in my games, especially with the pacing: I've always been too nice to interrupt player's long rests in the middle of adventures, and I'm thinking that those days are over now.

I don't usually interrupt rests. Or if I do, I don't make the rest reset or anything. The reason why is that players are usually risk-averse. If you interrupt their rest, they'll either dig in their heels and try to rest again, or they'll leave the dungeon and rest. Either way reduces the game's pace and enforces a five-minute adventuring day, instead of discouraging it. I usually hit 'em right after the rest with positions dug-in during the rest, or with patrols in force. They'll still be at less-than-full-strength, but without getting the players' hackles up. Good luck!

[SunderedWorldDM]

I don't usually interrupt rests. Or if I do, I don't make the rest reset or anything. The reason why is that players are usually risk-averse. If you interrupt their rest, they'll either dig in their heels and try to rest again, or they'll leave the dungeon and rest. Either way reduces the game's pace and enforces a five-minute adventuring day, instead of discouraging it. I usually hit 'em right after the rest with positions dug-in during the rest, or with patrols in force. They'll still be at less-than-full-strength, but without getting the players' hackles up. Good luck!
But if the dungeon restocks behind them, or they're under a time limit, as are often true in my game, then those aren't options, especially if you warn the players beforehand of your vision. Though attacking them with a big encounter right after a rest would also achieve a similar effect.

[Arkhios]

0.5*2=1
You roll a normal hit-die, with constitution modifier, to recover hit-points as normal. It just only COSTS you half a hit-die from your pool.


You keep it for the same use later, unless your pool recovers to full, at which point it becomes irrelevant.

That clear enough, or should I provide an example?

I admit I made that question sarcastically, because while I see what you intended, I don't think this is a very good idea.

Why? Because, if you only ever used a one half a hit-die for this, and were to use your Hit Dice later to regain hit points during short rest, it leaves a lot of wiggle room whether the one remaining half a hit-die can or can't be used in that purpose.
Personally, I would be inclined to say no, because using hit dice to regain hit points mentions nothing about using halves. In other words, your mechanism renders the other half useless for anything else, and in so doing, makes resource tracking complicated, even if only a little.

But, that's just me. YMMV, of course.

[DracoDei]

Mechanically:
I would think it would be very helpful at levels 1 to say... 4? When being fully healed is important but being able to use smaller increments so as to be able to save more for later is also useful for survivability. At higher levels (or even at all levels), well, if someone doesn't like the extra record keeping an reliance on another player/character making a specific choice in the future, they can just always spend full hit-dice.

Thematically:
Eh, my policy is to consider the level of complexity (or more precisely, tactical and literary richness) of the published 5e stuff to be a floor, rather than an average to aim for with homebrewing. They write for the lowest common denominator, I write for the somewhat more experienced players.

So yeah, our two opinions differ, and everyone (not just we two) can use whatever they think fits their group best.

:smallsmile: