Help! Session ended w/ my PC trapped w/ BBEG alone ready to fight

[Spo]

First, minor Dungeon of Mad Mage spoilers ahead.

(c) = concentration spell

Scene:

My 12th lvl Shepard Druid (87 hp w/ 16 temp hp) walked into a large room accompanied by my Conjured Minor Elemental (c) gargoyle. Suddenly, a Wall of Force (c) blocks the entrance, separating me from my team who were just a few feet behind me. Above me appears Murial, a large half humanoid/scorpion creature holding a sword (and obviously can cast magic). Then the session ended.

Spells I have prepared (still have most of my slots left): Cure Wounds, Entangle (c), Spike Growth (c), Healing Spirit (c), Call Lightning (c), Conjure Animals (c), Sleet Storm (c), Wind Wall (c), Conjure Minor Elemental (c) [takes a minute to cast], Conjure Woodland Beings (c); Polymorph (c); Wall of Fire (c); Conjure Elemental (c) [one minute to cast]; Wall of Stone (c), Conjure Fey (c) [1 minute to cast], Wind Walk (c) [minute to cast]; Wall of Thorns (c); and some damage cantrips.

Assumptions on Murail (not looking for stats or meta-knowledge): high strength and intelligence and can spider climb and cast high level spells. I have a feeling she has Counterspell - if not fight would be too easy at this level for a BBEG.

Goals: #1) stay alive long enough for my team to get through the Wall of Force or break her concentration to bring down the wall; #2) Use up her high level spell slots so team won't deal with them later.

Possible strategies:

Plan A: Dismiss Gargoyle (no action); Up cast Conjure Woodland Beings to lvl 6 [this would get me either 4 dryads that could cast charm X4 "please lower the wall and let my friends pass unmolested" works on humanoids or beasts (DC 14) or two sea hags with frighten/death stare (DC 11) - GM has me pick conjured creatures and have them attack the same round as summon. Reason to up cast is to get either double the critters or to cause her to use counter spell at a higher spell slot.

Plan B: Dismiss Gargoyle (no action); Try and trap her behind a Wall of Stone construct (like a box), but then she could use a reactions and make a DEX save to avoid it.

Plan C: Dismiss Gargoyle (no action); Up cast Conjure Animals to lvl 5 and get 24 flying snakes with flyby and 1 piercing damage plus 3d4 poison;


My party on the other side of the force wall is as follows:

Party all lvl 12 (all have about half their spell slots left - Except Bard who has used most of his).

- Wizard
- Barbarian
- Gloom Stalker Ranger
- Bard
- Life Cleric (with revive prepared - hopefully :))

With the above information, and the knowledge you can only have one concentration spell up at a time, what would you do?

Thanks

[Aelyn]

Firstly, I haven't read or seen anything about that campaign, so I'm going purely on what's in your post.

Secondly, and without meaning to sound harsh... why are almost all of your spells Concentration? It feels like that really hampers your flexibility, especially in a situation like this. I get that you're a Summoner, but having maybe half the summoning / conjuration you currently have should feel pretty similar gameplay-wise but have a lot more emergency flexibility. I know it's not useful right now, but maybe this'll prompt you to change up your spell list a little in the future so you're not wholly dependent on summons and conjurations.

As for the actual question... Assuming he is openly hostile and any sort of negotiation (including surrendering / offering yourself as a hostage) is off the table, and assuming neither the Wizard nor the Bard have Disintegrate available to break the Wall of Force... I don't like plan C. Without knowing the actual statblock, I tend to assume monsters known for having venom (such as a scorpion, and by extension a half-scorpion mage) are also to some extent or other resistant to poison.

I think B is probably best. The issue with summoning a bunch of Dryads / Hags / whatever to force saves is that bosses typically have legendary saves, which means that it's unlikely the effect will go off, and also that you're relatively likely to lose Concentration from damage if you aren't proactively blocking them from attacking you.

There is also the possibility of option D: Polymorph into a Tiny critter (such as a mouse) and hope to be stealthy enough to survive. It's not a reliable plan, but if the boss is strong enough to be a good fight for five L12s, it's strong enough that a single L12 needs to take some risks to survive.

[Aeriox]

Well, first off: does neither your bard nor your wizard have counterspell or dispel magic? Because that’s kinda weird. Second, you have a lot of concentration spells, and in the future you might want to take some nonconcentration ones. As to your actual question, I would recommend conjure animals personally, as they might be able to act as a meat shield. With the totems hopefully they’ll last a decent amount of time, especially if the BBEG uses their sword.

[Expired]

Plan A, without a doubt, is what I'd do if I were in your situation. I especially like the idea of using Pixies to charm the BBEG, but you have a Wizard who, hopefully, has Disintegrate (it immediately destroys Wall of Force) and if so, then upcast Conjure Animals and choose wolves and surround her while attacking with advantage due to Pack Tactics. Don't forget to use your Bonus Action to summon a Bear Totem for the temp HP for every wolf in the radius. You should be able to knock her prone and hopefully break concentration in the process. If not, you'll affect her action economy because if she moves, she'll take many AoO's unless she Disengages (using her action and giving you time) or casts Misty Step.

Ultimately, the objective is to stall until your party can get through the wall, or to break her concentration on it yourself.

[pr4wn]

Plan A, without a doubt, is what I'd do if I were in your situation. I especially like the idea of using Pixies to charm the BBEG, but you have a Wizard who, hopefully, has Disintegrate (it immediately destroys Wall of Force) and if so, then upcast Conjure Animals and choose wolves and surround her while attacking with advantage due to Pack Tactics. Don't forget to use your Bonus Action to summon a Bear Totem for the temp HP for every wolf in the radius. You should be able to knock her prone and hopefully break concentration in the process. If not, you'll affect her action economy because if she moves, she'll take many AoO's unless she Disengages (using her action and giving you time) or casts Misty Step.

Ultimately, the objective is to stall until your party can get through the wall, or to break her concentration on it yourself.

I mostly agree with Expired. One change if possible, summon velociraptors instead of wolves. You get 16 velociraptors (if upcast at 5th level) that have multiattack and pack tactics. You get 64 chances to hit (32 attacks with advantage) with a +4 to hit per attack. Average damage you should be looking at over 100 points of damage per round from them. If you can drop a bear totem when you summon them, they will each have 33HP. They are tiny, so more of them can surround and attack (assuming a medium target).

I think your best defense here is a good offense. And as Sun-Tzu said, "Quantity has a quality all its own".

Good luck!

-pr4wn

[JackPhoenix]

What's the room like? Is Operation: GTFO (wildshape into a giant badger and burrow away) possible?

[Spo]

Firstly, I haven't read or seen anything about that campaign, so I'm going purely on what's in your post.

Secondly, and without meaning to sound harsh... why are almost all of your spells Concentration? It feels like that really hampers your flexibility, especially in a situation like this. I get that you're a Summoner, but having maybe half the summoning / conjuration you currently have should feel pretty similar gameplay-wise but have a lot more emergency flexibility. I know it's not useful right now, but maybe this'll prompt you to change up your spell list a little in the future so you're not wholly dependent on summons and conjurations.

As for the actual question... Assuming he is openly hostile and any sort of negotiation (including surrendering / offering yourself as a hostage) is off the table, and assuming neither the Wizard nor the Bard have Disintegrate available to break the Wall of Force... I don't like plan C. Without knowing the actual statblock, I tend to assume monsters known for having venom (such as a scorpion, and by extension a half-scorpion mage) are also to some extent or other resistant to poison.

I think B is probably best. The issue with summoning a bunch of Dryads / Hags / whatever to force saves is that bosses typically have legendary saves, which means that it's unlikely the effect will go off, and also that you're relatively likely to lose Concentration from damage if you aren't proactively blocking them from attacking you.

There is also the possibility of option D: Polymorph into a Tiny critter (such as a mouse) and hope to be stealthy enough to survive. It's not a reliable plan, but if the boss is strong enough to be a good fight for five L12s, it's strong enough that a single L12 needs to take some risks to survive.

Firstly, you are absolutely right about too many concentration. I have just been preparing the easy to understand spells. When we turned level 12 (two sessions ago) I made an effort to bone up on all my spells and learn not to be so dependent on the concentration ones. It is just that we haven't had a long rest for me to change out my ready spells. You are not too harsh.

As for your Plan D, I like it and was going to initially put it down but has me wildshaping into a CR 1 (max) animal with a bunch of hp like a giant octopus (52 hp) and not requiring concentration and I don't think counter spell would work. Although in looking at the spell polymorph (c) now, I could polymorph into a CR 8 T-Rex (136 hp w/ 19 con + 4 for (c) checks). Thanks for the suggestion! Never considered polymorphing myself.

[MrStabby]

Not knowing what tricks this guy has its hard to judge... but I would open with sleet storm to try and break concentration. See if you can duck round some terrain so that you are out of sight but will still be able to target a point with the spell that will catch this guy in it. Keeping just a couple of resources back to adapt when the bay guy's minions join in might be useful.

[Spo]

What's the room like? Is Operation: GTFO (wildshape into a giant badger and burrow away) possible?

I like this idea A LOT but in reading the description of burrow, I don't believe I can because in stone tile room.

A monster that has a burrowing speed can use that speed to move through sand, earth, mud, or ice. A monster can't burrow through solid rock unless it has a special trait that allows it to do so.

But that was a cool idea and you got my hopes up there for a second.

[Jelkan]

I kind of like plan B, but what about a different angle on it? Rather than trapping her, you could trap yourself. If you're in a hallway, you might be able to get two(or more) layers of stone the BBEG would have to break through. If you're in an open spot, you could still at least surround yourself with stone -- stand next to the wall of force and make a dome to surround you on all sides, except leave the wall of force side open so that you can regroup with your team if they manage to break through it. If you're able to leave the wall at 6" thick, every layer would have 180 HP that would hopefully take the BBEG a few rounds to break through, if they decide to attack it.

[Spo]

I kind of like plan B, but what about a different angle on it? Rather than trapping her, you could trap yourself. If you're in a hallway, you might be able to get two(or more) layers of stone the BBEG would have to break through. If you're in an open spot, you could still at least surround yourself with stone -- stand next to the wall of force and make a dome to surround you on all sides, except leave the wall of force side open so that you can regroup with your team if they manage to break through it. If you're able to leave the wall at 6" thick, every layer would have 180 HP that would hopefully take the BBEG a few rounds to break through, if they decide to attack it.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Large room but next to wall of force so can do exactly what you are suggesting - three side panels and a top panel. No need floor or panel facing force wall.

[da newt]

Yeah - create a shelter for yourself w/ wall of stone (maybe move into a corner of the room first), buy time while your team figures out how to get in the fight, and prep 16 velociraptors for when the stone wall fails should be a pretty simple and effective start ...

It will be handy to prep to efficiently roll all those attacks (64d20). Also think about how your minions will move so they can attack and then move out of the way so the rest can attack too - conga line like and end their turn surrounding the BBEG so they can't move through them.

[Damon_Tor]

Unless you know your team has a way to get through that wall of Force (Disintigrate, Passwall, Various Teleportation abilities) tossing a Wall of Stone between you and Muiral isn't helpful. You've got 100 rounds for him to carve through the layers of the Stone Wall you've erected. Can he do it? Maybe, maybe not, impossible to say without drawing on meta-knowledge, but I think the odds are in his favor.

And if he, as you so wisely assume, can cast Counterspell, then the whole thing is moot. He'll counterspell your Wall of Stone, advance to melee range, and tear you apart. If you assume he can cast Counterspell, why does every one of your plans involve casting a spell?

You're better off attempting to break his concentration on the Wall of Force (though you'll probably have to burn through his Legendary Saves to do this). Your gargoyle can make three attacks per turn and is immune to poison: this is not the worst creature for this job, and because you can't cast a different spell without getting counterspelled, you're stuck with it.

What I would do: order your gargoyle to engage and if possible to do so in a way that blocks Muiral from closing to melee with you. His goal is to damage Muiral and get him to drop the Wall of Force so your party can help you. Meanwhile, you will take the opportunity to Wildshape into a Giant Spider and catch him in your Web attack, a no-save restraining ability that forces him to use his action to break out. The spider's bite creates two separate instances of damage, forcing two different concentration rolls, assuming he isn't immune to poison.

The only point at which you should try casting a different spell is if you see him use his reaction for something else, a shield spell for example. Then, and only then, you should go ahead and cast Conjure Woodland Beings for a swarm of velociraptors, again with the goal of dropping his concentration on the Wall of Force. Again, this is your only good option for bringing him down.

To be clear, this isn't a good plan. You will probably die (and be unrevivavble, sorry). But this is a better plan that losing your gargoyle trying to cast another spell that's just going to get Counterspelled anyway.

And next time walk in a better formation, use familiars to scout ahead, and don't get caught like this.

[Democratus]

Is parley an option?

Maybe negotiate with the BBEG and make some kind of deal or, if that isn't in the cards, pretend to join his cause?

Sometimes the best way to survive a fight is not to be in one.

Just a thought.

[pr4wn]

Is parley an option?

Maybe negotiate with the BBEG and make some kind of deal or, if that isn't in the cards, pretend to join his cause?

Sometimes the best way to survive a fight is not to be in one.

Just a thought.

Generally a sound option. However, this is Undermountain and I would't expect anything to be sane enough to reason with...

-pr4wn

[WaroftheCrans]

Spells I have prepared (still have most of my slots left): Cure Wounds, Entangle (c), Spike Growth (c), Healing Spirit (c), Call Lightning (c), Conjure Animals (c), Sleet Storm (c), Wind Wall (c), Conjure Minor Elemental (c) [takes a minute to cast], Conjure Woodland Beings (c); Polymorph (c); Wall of Fire (c); Conjure Elemental (c) [one minute to cast]; Wall of Stone (c), Conjure Fey (c) [1 minute to cast], Wind Walk (c) [minute to cast]; Wall of Thorns (c); and some damage cantrips.


Way too many concentration spells here. Pretty sure that's already been said, but you should take that into account. You should use wall of stone or wall of fire in order to defend yourself, perhaps draw out the counterspells with wall of fire first.

The biggest issue is the one that Damon Tor brought up. You are relying on spells, but are praying he doesn't counterspell. Solution: Ready a spell from either option B or C that operates on the trigger of Murail using his reaction. You're in there with 100 hp, and a life cleric who can continue to cast healing word to keep you alive on the other side. If your dm is willing to kill PC's, Murail will likely end you with either disintegrate or some similar save or die spell, otherwise you're fine. Keep the gargoyle until you can cast a spell without fear of being counterspelled.



Assumptions on Murail (not looking for stats or meta-knowledge): high strength and intelligence and can spider climb and cast high level spells. I have a feeling she has Counterspell - if not fight would be too easy at this level for a BBEG.

Goals: #1) stay alive long enough for my team to get through the Wall of Force or break her concentration to bring down the wall; #2) Use up her high level spell slots so team won't deal with them later.

Possible strategies:

Plan A: Dismiss Gargoyle (no action); Up cast Conjure Woodland Beings to lvl 6 [this would get me either 4 dryads that could cast charm X4 "please lower the wall and let my friends pass unmolested" works on humanoids or beasts (DC 14) or two sea hags with frighten/death stare (DC 11) - GM has me pick conjured creatures and have them attack the same round as summon. Reason to up cast is to get either double the critters or to cause her to use counter spell at a higher spell slot.

Dryads will definitely not work. When you're describing a person with the body of a scorpion, I'm going to assume that its a monstrosity or aberration. There is no chance that its humanoid or beast. Combinations of humanoid and beasts usually ensure that the target is neither.
Sea Hags aren't terrible. Someone who turned themselves half scorpion probably lacks wisdom, and even with a low dc, you can get some use out of it. The issue is, if this is a BBEG, you can count on legendary actions and resistance. Pray for luck, and that the legendary resistances are used up against the fear effect.
Perhaps your allies can also cast spells to target the mental stats, preferably wisdom and charisma, assuming murail is an int caster. These types of spells can eat up the legendary resistance and most often disable.
They're also able to pass through a wall of force, as they aren't physical.



Plan B: Wall of stone around Murail.

Like others have said, this is probably best as a defensive action. Cast it around yourself, and pray. Perhaps use cantrips or other spells first to pull out the counterspells, but you're probably best just casting it.



Plan C: Dismiss Gargoyle (no action); Up cast Conjure Animals to lvl 5 and get 24 flying snakes with flyby and 1 piercing damage plus 3d4 poison;

I'm not questioning the 24 number, although I'm fairly certain it should be 16, unless you have a house rule letting you summon more, as they're cr 1/8. If you do have a houserule that does that, I don't know why its not 32.
An average of 9 damage, 24 times a turn, plus whatever cantrip you have. Flanking advantage and +6 to attack means you'll be hitting most often.
Not bad, but relies on Murail not having good spells. He likely has lightning bolt or fireball, so spread your snakes out in a way that lightning bolt can't target more than 3 or 4 Remember these are flying snakes, and can operate in 3d space. Fireball's AOE is too big to be avoided without sacrificing flanking advantage and proper tactics. and use bear spirit to bolster their hp. Bear spirit brings up the HP of the snakes to 26, just below the average damage of fireball and lightning bolt.
At 24 concentration saves in one round, you have a 70% chance of him rolling a nat 1, and failing a concentration save. However, this goes back to legendary resistance issue. Others mentioned velociraptors, which get 32 attacks a round, and advantage, giving you an 80% chance of him rolling a nat 1.




My party on the other side of the force wall is as follows:

Party all lvl 12 (all have about half their spell slots left - Except Bard who has used most of his).

- Wizard
- Barbarian
- Gloom Stalker Ranger
- Bard
- Life Cleric (with revive prepared - hopefully :))

Thanks

Bard can help you by casting Vicious Mockery, or something similar. Wizard is your best bet, with some sort of disable targeted at Murail. Ranger is next to useless, maybe he can use fear? Most of his attacks are physical, and therefore blocked by wall of force. Barbarian is useless. Cleric can and will keep you alive in spite of the wall of force.

[JackPhoenix]

Velociraptors are propably terrible option. The BBEG can climb, which means the murderchickens would have to sadly watch it doing stuff out of their reach.

[Segev]

Pity you don't have any bonus-action spells that would be useful, here. You could cast a cantrip to bait out a counterspell, and then use the real spell you wanted. If you can break line of sight with Muriel by moving behind something, that should prevent her from casting counterspell, at least. Is call lightning castable in this chamber? If so, breaking line of sight, casting that, and then wild shaping into something for tanking and/or dealing damage would be my goal. Force as much damage as you can to force out concentration saves.

Wild Shaping into something with a burrow speed is also a funny option.

If the gargoyle is with you, yeah, don't dismiss it as long as it can draw attacks. Only do so if it's totally ineffective. Focus on getting yourself safe.

If you've no better strategy, you should try casting a cantrip every round to bait out counterspells. Either Muriel wastes her reaction on identifying them, or she wastes the spell slot on countering them. When you think she's gone through all her spell slots for it, then try casting your wall of stone.

[pr4wn]

Velociraptors are propably terrible option. The BBEG can climb, which means the murderchickens would have to sadly watch it doing stuff out of their reach.

If Muiral has a natural climb speed. Otherwise he would need something like Spider Climb which would require his concentration. He shouldn't be able to concentrate on two spells at once, so that would cause the Wall of Force to disappear. Also, if he climbs up the wall, he probably isn't reaching you with melee attacks, so depending on the terrain, you may be able to get out of line of sight for spells. It isn't perfect but may either drop the wall, or buy you time for your teammates to reach you.

If he has a natural climb speed, they will only work as a defensive gaggle of geese to keep him at bay from melee attacks.

-pr4wn

[JackPhoenix]

If Muiral has a natural climb speed. Otherwise he would need something like Spider Climb which would require his concentration. He shouldn't be able to concentrate on two spells at once, so that would cause the Wall of Force to disappear. Also, if he climbs up the wall, he probably isn't reaching you with melee attacks, so depending on the terrain, you may be able to get out of line of sight for spells. It isn't perfect but may either drop the wall, or buy you time for your teammates to reach you.

If he has a natural climb speed, they will only work as a defensive gaggle of geese to keep him at bay from melee attacks.

-pr4wn

Per OP, he's above the PC, and the wall is up, so concentration isn't an issue. And if he's large and got spellcasting, reach may not be a problem for him.

[WaroftheCrans]

What gear do you have that you could use creatively? Is there anything that you could hide behind, breaking line of sight and allowing you to cast spells freely?

An interesting idea would be to go into melee, and then leave melee, drawing out his AoO, and allowing you to cast a spell without fear of counterspell.

I maintain that you should ready your action and wait for Murail to counterspell something from your other party members, or use a reaction to shield an attack from the gargoyle.

Look on the bright side, you've already drawn out one of his 5th level spells, and the fight hasn't even started.

The more I look at this situation, the more appealing readying the spell to come after his reaction becomes. Conjure 24 or 32 flying snakes, you have 9 average damage * 24 attacks with advantage with +6 to hit = 216 dmg.


AC
Chance to Hit w/o Adv
Chance to hit w/ Adv
Adjusted DPR


14
65%
87.75%
190


15
60%
84%
181


16
55%
79.75
173


17
50%
75%
162



You've killed him in two rounds max, and your cleric can heal you if he knocked you out.

[WaroftheCrans]

Per OP, he's above the PC, and the wall is up, so concentration isn't an issue. And if he's large and got spellcasting, reach may not be a problem for him.

I got curious now and pulled up his stats. Things I've discovered: Name is Muiral, not Murail like I've been calling him or Murial as OP has.
He lacks an innate climbing speed, meaning the DM has him doing the impossible, and concentrating on two spells at once.
He has a reach attack with his stinger, but thats it. Has Counterspell as assumed, and legendary resistances and actions, and deals 62dmg on average taking the multi-attack action. Legendary Actions bring that up to about 80 per round without spells. Flesh to Stone and Finger of death are his two really "scary" spells, and he has quite a few necromancy spells that indicate he'll be raising undead. 195 hp means that the 24 flying snakes can take him out fairly easily.

OP, you might want to politely remind your DM that a creature can not concentrate on two spells at once, and were told to do so at the behest of internet people.

[SunderedWorldDM]

OP, you might want to politely remind your DM that a creature can not concentrate on two spells at once, and were told to do so at the behest of internet people.
To be fair, being on a ceiling isn't a terribly big difference, especially at 12th level, and if the DM thought it was cool, they're entitled to make that little change. Perhaps even the DM assumed a scorpion creature had the appropriate feature anyways?

TL;DR, I think calling your DM out on behalf of a bunch of faceless internet people might not be the most polite or reasonable option, but you do you!

[pr4wn]

Per OP, he's above the PC, and the wall is up, so concentration isn't an issue. And if he's large and got spellcasting, reach may not be a problem for him.



OP, you might want to politely remind your DM that a creature can not concentrate on two spells at once, and were told to do so at the behest of internet people.

People are assuming Muiral is climbing. If the current Undermountain is similar to how it was previously, there are many places with overlooks, balconies, alcoves and other ways for an opponent to be above you without climbing on the walls/ceiling.

-pr4wn

[WaroftheCrans]

To be fair, being on a ceiling isn't a terribly big difference, especially at 12th level, and if the DM thought it was cool, they're entitled to make that little change. Perhaps even the DM assumed a scorpion creature had the appropriate feature anyways?

TL;DR, I think calling your DM out on behalf of a bunch of faceless internet people might not be the most polite or reasonable option, but you do you!

Fair enough. Most of my previous answers revolved around the question of concentration, so to find that this could already be solved made me look in the direction of negotiation.

[Damon_Tor]

The more I look at this situation, the more appealing readying the spell to come after his reaction becomes.

Not super useful: that will take your concentration as soon as you ready the spell.

[JackPhoenix]

Not super useful: that will take your concentration as soon as you ready the spell.

It also means you're casting the spell when you take the ready action, so readying it is pointless.

[follacchioso]

Wildshape into a Badger (or any creature with a burrow speed) and hide below the ground?

[stoutstien]

Wildshape into a Badger (or any creature with a burrow speed) and hide below the ground?
I was going to suggest this but if this encounter is the one I'm thinking of the floor doesn't qualify unless you cast erupting Earth or similar prior.

[WaroftheCrans]

It also means you're casting the spell when you take the ready action, so readying it is pointless.

Hmm, I wasn't aware of that rule. So drawing out an opportunity attack might just be the way to go?

[KorvinStarmast]

Secondly, and without meaning to sound harsh... why are almost all of your spells Concentration?
The PC is a Druid. :smallwink:

[Damon_Tor]

Hmm, I wasn't aware of that rule. So drawing out an opportunity attack might just be the way to go?

That would be an error on the part of the enemy. I'm not saying it can't work, but the best plans don't revolve around the enemy making an error.

[Segev]

That would be an error on the part of the enemy. I'm not saying it can't work, but the best plans don't revolve around the enemy making an error.

Yeah, your best bet is to try to get him to use the feared counterspell on lesser things that still leave you a serious action to try. He'll eventually run out of counterspells, while you have cantrips all day long. Better still if you can get him to counterspell a cantrip and still get a spell off, but that's less likely since you don't have a second ally to action deficit him with.

[Democratus]

If you have a spell that can be cast as a bonus action, wouldn't that allow you to cast a cantrip AND cast the spell. Maybe you could draw out the counterspell with the cantrip and then use the bonus action spell?

This is stretching things a bit. :smallcool:

[WaroftheCrans]

Yeah, your best bet is to try to get him to use the feared counterspell on lesser things that still leave you a serious action to try. He'll eventually run out of counterspells, while you have cantrips all day long. Better still if you can get him to counterspell a cantrip and still get a spell off, but that's less likely since you don't have a second ally to action deficit him with.

Here's the thing, the allies can action deficit him. Wall of Force (https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wall-of-force) is invisible, and only stops things from passing through physically. Vicious mockery, toll the dead, and most control spells the party has could still be used.

Spells like Fireball and Chromatic Orb are where it gets iffy, as a "bright streak" and "spheres of energy" could be ruled either way imo.

At the very least, the cleric can heal you, and the bard and the wizard near certainly have cantrips that can pass through.

Wall of Force 5th level evocation magic.
Duration: Concentration, 10 minutes.
An invisible wall of force springs into existence at a point you choose within range. The wall appears in any orientation you choose, as a horizontal or vertical barrier or at an angle. It can be free floating or resting on a solid surface. You can form it into a hemispherical dome or a sphere with a radius of up to 10 feet, or you can shape a flat surface made up of ten 10-foot-by-10-foot panels. Each panel must be contiguous with another panel. In any form, the wall is 1/4 inch thick. It lasts for the duration. If the wall cuts through a creature's space when it appears, the creature is pushed to one side of the wall (your choice which side).

Nothing can physically pass through the wall. It is immune to all damage and can't be dispelled by dispel magic. A disintegrate spell destroys the wall instantly, however. The wall also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel through the wall.
Damaging Cantrips:
Chill touch, Create Bonfire, Frostbite, Infestation, Mind Sliver (UA), Ray of Frost(?), Sacred Flame, Toll The Dead, Vicious Mockery

Note to OP: in a previous thread you mentioned that you would be replacing this PC with another one, a monk/cleric multiclass. Perhaps this is how your dm wants to retire your character, in a blaze of glory, taking out Muiral and then succubing to his poison?

[Damon_Tor]

A quick Google search show that the devs have been consistent about their answers for this question: Wall of Force provides full cover, and you can't target something with a spell if it has full cover.

Teleports usually work because the caster is the target, not the location.

[Spo]

Note to OP: in a previous thread you mentioned that you would be replacing this PC with another one, a monk/cleric multiclass. Perhaps this is how your dm wants to retire your character, in a blaze of glory, taking out Muiral and then succubing to his poison?

Funny you mentioned that because I prepared the character sheet already in case I don't make it through this fight and can't be revived for some reason.

Don't think this is the plans of the GM though because he doesn't know my musings of doing a switch over. Plus I still don't want her to die. I have plans on how to wrap up her storyline that don't include becoming monster paste.

Just sometimes characters just die in the game (death by mimic, by intellect devourer (two people died from that one), by blowing up kegs of gun powder to try and kill Xanathar, by attacking a higher lvl NPC by themselves). GM is not cruel, just plays the creatures smartly - without metaknowledge and he'll explain why they act the way they did.

[Spo]

Yeah, your best bet is to try to get him to use the feared counterspell on lesser things that still leave you a serious action to try. He'll eventually run out of counterspells, while you have cantrips all day long. Better still if you can get him to counterspell a cantrip and still get a spell off, but that's less likely since you don't have a second ally to action deficit him with.

Been considering this as well. He has his sword and scorpion stinger. If he moves first, I don't see him wasting high level spells at me knowing he'll be facing the rest of the party next so if he closes to melee range and attacks (and I have 87 plus 16 temp), I should be able to survive those attacks (assuming multi-attack with sword and tail). THEN, I move first - provoking an opportunity attack, thus using up his reaction, dismiss the gargoyle (assuming I haven't lost concentration on him), then I could then cast my flying snakes swam for the purpose of trying to break his concentration on the wall.

Dangerous gamble but I need to counter that counterspell and trick him into using that reaction.

Maybe do the above if he acts first (we haven't rolled initiative yet). If I act first, wildshape (can't attack - not Moon) (don't think counter spell can stop wildshape). Max Cr 1 creature would give me a pack of HP in the form of dire wolf 37 HP/AC14 or giant octopus 52 hp/AC 11. Then he melees with his attack - I revert back on my turn and run away - he opportunity attacks (hopefully) - then I conjure my swarm and attack.

What am I missing here?

[JackPhoenix]

What am I missing here?

That nothing forces him to take the OA. The extra damage is nice, true, but if he's smart, and he knows you're a spellcaster, he'll keep his reaction for Counterspell. If he missess out on an attack, it'll take him a bit longer to kill you, if he lets you get an spell off, you may escape, or turn the fight around.

[Segev]

Is the Garoyle in the room with you, or beyond the wall of force in the hall with the party?

You can try to bait the OA, but there's nothing forcing Muiral to take it. This is why, if you have any useful bonus action spells, you might want to use a non-bonus-action cantrip to bait out his counterspell. He probaby has too many counterspells (assuming he has it at all) to get them used up in a reasonable number of rounds, though, so don't let him pummel your hp while all your actions go into trying to burn through his counterspells.

You are correct that Wild Shape cannot be counterspelled. If Giant Octopus will let you grapple him and shove him prone, that will give you and any summons (your gargoyle?) advantage on attacks, which will hopefully help break his Concentration.

If you CAN turn into something with a burrow speed, can you burrow through the walls? Burrow AROUND his wall of force and rejoin your party, maybe?

[WaroftheCrans]

It really depends on the balance between bloodthirsty and smart that your GM runs Muiral. It's safe to say that Muiral is both smart and bloodthirsty, and the bloodthirstyiness would drive him to take an opportunity attack on a spellcaster that's fleeing.
On the other hand, the smart choice would be to just wait a few seconds and then kill you on his turn.

If you want to get creative, when you grapple him with the octopus, try to somehow gag him, and then on your next turn conjure creatures. Your GM probably won't allow it, but its worth a shot.

[LordKarnox]

Plan A seems like the best plan from what I can tell
1. Stuff to take the BBEG's attension away from you
2. Chance to charm seems good for the risk/reward ratio, even if the boss is immune to charm. If so, you still have some meatshields.

[Spo]

I survived! Session just ended and I am not dead (or undead - he used finger of death and did 76 necro damage but bc he did it early in the combat I was still good on health (whew).

Here’s what happened: rolled initiative, I go first but he uses a legendary action to attack and move away from me. I take 6 damage from sword (rolled couple 1’s on damage). I fly my gargoyle to him attack twice (miss both times) then fly him away.

Then he does his OA on the gargoyle. Bingo! Hits the gargoyle. I then upcast conjure animals for 16 flying snakes and have them attack him on either side (we play with flanking so advantage). 11 hit with piercing and poison damage (turns out no resistance to poison).

He takes 86 damage total but makes 22 concentration checks bc different sources of damage. Team starts findings ways into room and he starts to run but first casts finger of death at me. (GM later said he was looking forward to turning someone into a zombie but wasn’t meant to be - he even made a note for himself to use counter spell but the OA on the gargoyle was just a natural reaction- also think it helped that had been drinking before the game too:).

Thanks for all the suggestions gang!

[WaroftheCrans]

Gz. The aggressive types tend to be suckers for the OA's. I know because I am one of those :)