Battle Master or Champion

[Master O'Laughs]

I figured I would make a new thread to focus conversation.

Old PC died, new one is a Tortle Barbarian Path of the Zealot. Starting at level 8. I was able to either get a common & uncommon magic item or a rate magic item. I chose rare and picked a Flame-tongue Great Sword.

My level 4 feat I picked Great Weapon Master.

Attributes were rolled and are as such:

Str - 18 (after racials)
Dex - 8
Con - 16
Int - 7
Wis - 13
Cha - 9

All of the above is fixed. The questions I have are

1) Should I multi-class fighter?
2) If yes, should I go for a 2 or 4 level dip (making ECL9 my 5th lvl of fighter)?
3) If 4 level dip, should I go Champion or Battle Master?

Other pertinent information: The DM uses a rule where if you have an ally flanking an opponent, you add 1d4 to your attack rolls.

Edit: We are playing in the Curse of Strahd module and do not expect to go past level 10.

[stoutstien]

I figured I would make a new thread to focus conversation.

Old PC died, new one is a Tortle Barbarian Path of the Zealot. Starting at level 8. I was able to either get a common & uncommon magic item or a rate magic item. I chose rare and picked a Flame-tongue Great Sword.

My level 4 feat I picked Great Weapon Master.

Attributes were rolled and are as such:

Str - 18 (after racials)
Dex - 8
Con - 16
Int - 7
Wis - 13
Cha - 9

All of the above is fixed. The questions I have are

1) Should I multi-class fighter?
2) If yes, should I go for a 2 or 4 level dip (making ECL9 my 5th lvl of fighter)?
3) If 4 level dip, should I go Champion or Battle Master?

Other pertinent information: The DM uses a rule where if you have an ally flanking an opponent, you add 1d4 to your attack rolls.

How many encounters does your table average per S/L rest?

[Master O'Laughs]

How many encounters does your table average per S/L rest?

Depends. Playing CoS and about to enter Strahd's castle.

[stoutstien]

Fanatical focus is pretty hard to pass up. Rerolls on failed ST for free once a rage is low key the best part of zealot. As for the dip, it is a wash either way.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Regardless of your choice, you certainly want to get your fifth Barbarian level first.

After that... Honestly, I don't think there's a particular push one way or the other. Battle Master is strong and fun, but Champion combos well with Reckless Attack. You can also just stick with Barbarian; there's no real need to multiclass. All three options will work just fine; pick whichever you like best.

(Slight caveat: when I ran CoS there wound up being a lot of short adventuring days with one big fight. Battle Master will have an edge there)

[GlenSmash!]

Definitely get Extra attack first and maybe Fanatical Focus. Choose Battlmaster if you want new tricks, or Champion (or stick with Barbarian) if you want to buff what you already do.

[Master O'Laughs]

Definitely get Extra attack first and maybe Fanatical Focus. Choose Battlmaster if you want new tricks, or Champion (or stick with Barbarian) if you want to buff what you already do.

Since the character is coming in at level 8, I am leaning starting as Barb 6/Fight 2. This would give action surge for a nice nova 1/SR.

The next 2 level ups will probably go fighter at this point to get another feat and subclass. Leaning Champion to have a 10% Crit chance since Flame-tongue Greatsword would go from 4d6 to 8d6 damage and with Great weapon fighting, it would help prevent low damage rolls.

Battlemaster though has the nice appeal of ensuring GWM attacks hit home.

[Daphne]

Are you dead set in picking GWM? -5/+10 doesn't seem very appealing when you're already getting a bunch of extra damage from Zealot's feature (potentially 1d6+4 at 8th level) and the flame-tongue (2d6), even with advantage.

[Joe the Rat]

Are you dead set in picking GWM? -5/+10 doesn't seem very appealing when you're already getting a bunch of extra damage from Zealot's feature (potentially 1d6+4 at 8th level) and the flame-tongue (2d6), even with advantage.There are definitely enough riders that hitting is a bit more important. But I think the GWM's Cleave (BA attack on crit or ko) is pretty useful, and would come up more with the expanded crit range on Champion. IIRC there are enough low-AC opponents that the extra kill-speed of the -/+ is still worthwhile.

[Master O'Laughs]

Are you dead set in picking GWM? -5/+10 doesn't seem very appealing when you're already getting a bunch of extra damage from Zealot's feature (potentially 1d6+4 at 8th level) and the flame-tongue (2d6), even with advantage.

I am a bit attached to the feat, yes. After my last PC went evil via a dark gift and possibly killed half the party, I just want to play Mr. Big Dumb Fighty guy who deals lots of single target damage.

Will I always use GWM, no. If it looks like they are heavily armored I will swing without it from the get go to ensure hitting. But if they seem lightly armored, I will swing for the fences hoping to hit a homerun... ~136 damage on my Nova round with action surge if math checks out (not calculating crit or to hit, just average damage).

[Keravath]

Another route would be fighter 6/barbarian 2 which gives you an extra feat. You could take GWM and resilient wis since your str is already 18. Battlemaster works pretty well with GWM with precision strike. However, champion does increase crit chances.

Also, if you want to avoid having this character possibly kill off half your party then resilient wis is very important since it is probably the biggest weakness of these builds especially with charming vampires around.

The advantage of barb 6 is the level 6 feature and 4 rages/day vs 2. So, the number of combat encounters you typically see in an adventuring day is something to keep in mind. Do you need 4 rages?

[Master O'Laughs]

Another route would be fighter 6/barbarian 2 which gives you an extra feat. You could take GWM and resilient wis since your str is already 18. Battlemaster works pretty well with GWM with precision strike. However, champion does increase crit chances.

Also, if you want to avoid having this character possibly kill off half your party then resilient wis is very important since it is probably the biggest weakness of these builds especially with charming vampires around.

The advantage of barb 6 is the level 6 feature and 4 rages/day vs 2. So, the number of combat encounters you typically see in an adventuring day is something to keep in mind. Do you need 4 rages?

Looking at past encounters, most rages one might have needed may have been 3. Though we are about to enter Strahd's castle and there could be several encounters strung together.

[LudicSavant]

Are you dead set in picking GWM? -5/+10 doesn't seem very appealing when you're already getting a bunch of extra damage from Zealot's feature (potentially 1d6+4 at 8th level) and the flame-tongue (2d6), even with advantage.

Yeah. Remember, GWM is worth less the higher your damage-per-hit is. Get it high enough and it's not worth it even with Advantage.


Will I always use GWM, no. If it looks like they are heavily armored I will swing without it from the get go to ensure hitting. But if they seem lightly armored, I will swing for the fences hoping to hit a homerun... ~136 damage on my Nova round with action surge if math checks out (not calculating crit or to hit, just average damage).

The problem with not calculating crit and to-hit is that it makes GWM look stronger than it actually is.

A +2 to Strength is worth more on a Zealot with a Flame Tongue unless the enemy's AC is very low (To be precise, AC 14 or less if you're using Rage and Reckless that turn).

If you're going to take the feat, then you should be aware of that.


Other pertinent information: The DM uses a rule where if you have an ally flanking an opponent, you add 1d4 to your attack rolls. This rule would also affect the value of GWM.

[CTurbo]

What did you do for level 8? I'd take Res(Wis)

I'd rather take 2 levels of War Cleric if you're stuck at 2 levels assuming Zealot 8, other class 2

If you can take 3 levels in something, I'd go US Revised Ranger Gloom Stalker 3.

If you want to choose between Battlemaster and Champion, I'd rather go Battlemaster if for no other reason than to spam Riposte.

[Master O'Laughs]

What did you do for level 8? I'd take Res(Wis)

I'd rather take 2 levels of War Cleric if you're stuck at 2 levels assuming Zealot 8, other class 2

If you can take 3 levels in something, I'd go US Revised Ranger Gloom Stalker 3.

If you want to choose between Battlemaster and Champion, I'd rather go Battlemaster if for no other reason than to spam Riposte.

Currently sitting at Barb 6 so if we get to 10, resilient wisdom may be a very wise pick.