black lotus extract splash weapon minor creation optimization

[newguydude1]

you can cast minor creation once and get one splash weapon of black lotus extract. imo this is terrible efficiency. so how to get more out of each casting?

lets use caster level 1.

with one casting we can make a barrel of black lotus extract. at cl1 thats 1cuft of black lotus extract.
how much do we need in one flask?

if we look at acid, alchemist fire, and holy water, the three core splash weapons, they all weigh 1lb.
there is 62lbs of water in 1cuft of water.
so from this we can get that 1cuft of black lotus extract is enough to fill 62 splash weapon flasks. to make it simple lets say 50 flasks per casting because of the added weight of the barrel.

so the question now is, how to get as many flasks as possible with one casting of minor creation?

so my thought is paper water balloons. you just create a huge stack of construction paper thats perferated for easy square shaped tears, and according to videos i found online, it takes 2minutes and 30 seconds to fold a paper water balloon. so if 4 party members spend 20minutes folding origami they got 32 paper water balloons.

so with two castings of minor creation and 20minutes we have 32 splash weapons of black lotus extract.

anyone got a better way?

keep in mind the craft dc. thats why i dont have prefolded stacks of paper. the dc would probably be out of this world.

[rel]

Haversack full of empty vials and an empty barrel with a spigot?

Cast minor creation to fill the barrel then use it to quickly fill as many vials as you can comfortably fit on your potion belt or bandoliers after each fight.

Seems more practical than trying to walk into combat balancing a pile of fragile origami filled with deadly contact poison.

[newguydude1]

Haversack full of empty vials and an empty barrel with a spigot?

Cast minor creation to fill the barrel then use it to quickly fill as many vials as you can comfortably fit on your potion belt or bandoliers after each fight.

Seems more practical than trying to walk into combat balancing a pile of fragile origami filled with deadly contact poison.

minor creation can create a spigot too.

but yes, buying the 3cp flasks is a lot easier than origami balloons.

but i was wondering if there was a way to mass produce those flasks with one minor creation. in case you run out cause you couldnt go to town for a week.

[Troacctid]

keep in mind the craft dc. thats why i dont have prefolded stacks of paper. the dc would probably be out of this world.
It's already pretty high, to be fair. Black Lotus Extract is DC 35.

[newguydude1]

It's already pretty high, to be fair. Black Lotus Extract is DC 35.

could you tell me where this dc is? first time im hearing poison require craft check.

edit: found it. complete adventurer.

[rel]

minor creation can create a spigot too.

but yes, buying the 3cp flasks is a lot easier than origami balloons.

but i was wondering if there was a way to mass produce those flasks with one minor creation. in case you run out cause you couldnt go to town for a week.

I've heard people suggest amber which is technically a stone but was once tree resin.
failing that vials made from dried resin or plant derived lacquers?

The other issue is the wording of minor creation references 'an object' and 'an item' not multiple items.
Your GM might rule that you can only create one delivery device per casting.
Although if 'poison' has already been allowed as a valid item this probably wont be a problem.

[Segev]

This gets into “negotiating with your DM” territory, but picture the sprues that plastic or cardboard minis come in, especially in big box sets of the things. Gloomhaven has them for cardboard. Been a long time since I saw them for plastic figurines, but hopefully others can think of specific examples. Hero Quest?

Each sprue was a single item. Specifically designed to be made that way, with multiple intended pieces to break off as their own things.

Use the same concept. Make a sprue with your vials as part of it. If you’re using wood, make a line of vials connected by one thin leaf-stem or wood stick. It’s one item, but you can break it apart as needed into individual vials.

[newguydude1]

This gets into “negotiating with your DM” territory, but picture the sprues that plastic or cardboard minis come in, especially in big box sets of the things. Gloomhaven has them for cardboard. Been a long time since I saw them for plastic figurines, but hopefully others can think of specific examples. Hero Quest?

Each sprue was a single item. Specifically designed to be made that way, with multiple intended pieces to break off as their own things.

Use the same concept. Make a sprue with your vials as part of it. If you’re using wood, make a line of vials connected by one thin leaf-stem or wood stick. It’s one item, but you can break it apart as needed into individual vials.

how much of the craft dc will it skyrocket for doing that?

[Segev]

how much of the craft dc will it skyrocket for doing that?

GM's prerogative, really, which is part of what makes it a "negotiate with your DM" thing. But how hard is it to make a cup-and-string "telephone?" This isn't really asking for anything intricate, just a connecting fiber between what you intend to be separate elements. If it didn't take a craft DC to make a single wooden vial, I would not expect it to take one to make a chain of wooden vials connected by leaf-stems. Or by really thin break-away wood. (Picture pan pipes with the bits connecting them so thin you can snap them like kit-kats.)

[Aracor]

Haversack full of empty vials and an empty barrel with a spigot?

Cast minor creation to fill the barrel then use it to quickly fill as many vials as you can comfortably fit on your potion belt or bandoliers after each fight.

Seems more practical than trying to walk into combat balancing a pile of fragile origami filled with deadly contact poison.

Keep in mind that without the poison use special ability (a la assassin), you have a 5% chance of poisoning yourself every vial you fill.

[rel]

Keep in mind that without the poison use special ability (a la assassin), you have a 5% chance of poisoning yourself every vial you fill.

Poison use is required regardless since you also poison yourself on a natural 1 when attacking with a poisoned weapon (reflex negates).

Alternatively you can make yourself immune to the poison you plan to use.

[Psyren]

It's already pretty high, to be fair. Black Lotus Extract is DC 35.

And this is just the DC to make a poison out of it. Some sort of custom splash weapon could easily be even higher, assuming the GM even allows a custom item.

[newguydude1]

And this is just the DC to make a poison out of it. Some sort of custom splash weapon could easily be even higher, assuming the GM even allows a custom item.

all flasks are splash weapons. but yeah the dc is too high for my psion to achieve. even the dc 20 leaf residue thing. so i abandoned shaper and went egoist.

[Segev]

all flasks are splash weapons. but yeah the dc is too high for my psion to achieve. even the dc 20 leaf residue thing. so i abandoned shaper and went egoist.
I forget: are you 3.5 or PF? This makes a big difference in what the psionic classes give you as features.

[newguydude1]

I forget: are you 3.5 or PF? This makes a big difference in what the psionic classes give you as features.

3.5

i mean i can hit the 20dc for the leaf residue if i grab skill focus but i dunno. animal affinity seems better than throwing flasks of dc16 fort save that doesnt work on undead for 2d12 damage.

[Segev]

3.5

i mean i can hit the 20dc for the leaf residue if i grab skill focus but i dunno. animal affinity seems better than throwing flasks of dc16 fort save that doesnt work on undead for 2d12 damage.

Nah, I was going to say something about Psychic Warrior if you were going Egoist if you were using PF material, but you're not, so it would not be valid.

[Quertus]

This gets into “negotiating with your DM” territory, but picture the sprues that plastic or cardboard minis come in, especially in big box sets of the things. Gloomhaven has them for cardboard. Been a long time since I saw them for plastic figurines, but hopefully others can think of specific examples. Hero Quest?

Each sprue was a single item. Specifically designed to be made that way, with multiple intended pieces to break off as their own things.

Use the same concept. Make a sprue with your vials as part of it. If you’re using wood, make a line of vials connected by one thin leaf-stem or wood stick. It’s one item, but you can break it apart as needed into individual vials.

Funny - that's exactly the kind of thing that I thought (and did) the first time I read the "single item" line. "Model cars" was, iirc, my visual of choice.