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Criz Reborn
2007-10-25, 11:03 AM
So me and some friends are thinking of having an arena-like dnd tournament at our gaming guilds Halloween party saturday. The terrain will be randomly drawn and can be pretty much anything. The characters are all going to be level 5 and will have to face each other in 1V1 or 1V1V1 battles depending on how many people we have playing. Im trying to think of a couple of characters to enter in the tournament (I think were going to let everyone make 2-3 characters and choose between them based on the terrain and/or their opponent)
What would you suggest making? Right now Im thinking I should make a Druid or a Ninja and go for stealth. Anything goes in terms of what material you can use, so long as its not homebrew. Give me your nastiest characters guys!

Kurald Galain
2007-10-25, 11:06 AM
If you're allowed an animal companion, druid is a very good bet.

Don't neglect your will save or you'll fall to the wizard who spams SOL.

And I think a rogue has a good bet at staying undetectable for most of the fight, and one-shotting the opponent with sneak attack.

Solo
2007-10-25, 11:08 AM
5th level koblold wizard.

jameswilliamogle
2007-10-25, 11:08 AM
1st level kobold psion.

valadil
2007-10-25, 11:38 AM
Bard/Marshall. Let the other two combatants fight it out. When one starts losing, buff him. When he wins, drop the buffs. Now you get to fight the weaker of two opponents, and he's already down on hit points.

Swordguy
2007-10-25, 11:39 AM
Give me your nastiest characters guys!

*shrug* You asked for it.

Pun-Pun.

Criz Reborn
2007-10-25, 11:41 AM
5th level koblold wizard.

ive never really played or seen anyone play a kobold, why do you say that? For the bonus to hide or something?

Criz Reborn
2007-10-25, 11:43 AM
*shrug* You asked for it.

Pun-Pun.

whats sad is I just thought of this right before you asked for it, Im pretty sure nobody would allow pun-pun... but hey if they dont think of it themselves then itd be funny

13_CBS
2007-10-25, 11:47 AM
I forget...is the infinite damage build possible at level 5? Or was it 7?

Nerd-o-rama
2007-10-25, 11:51 AM
The Top Three (Wizard, Cleric, and Druid) all begin to come into their own at 5, with 3rd-level spells. Druids seem like the best choice, as they can Wildshape starting at 5th, but remember you don't get Natural Spell until 6th level, limiting your CoDzillaness. Wizards can really wreck things without a good will save at this level; I'd go with that.

Barbarian's actually a good choice if you start within 80 feet or so, although they'd be much better if this was level six and you could get Leap Attack. (Barb 6: Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Leap Attack). With a +1 Greatsword, you're doing 2d6+21+2*Str if you PA for full, which will one-shot most d4 and many d6 characters at this level. But that really only works on the first round.

Swordguy
2007-10-25, 11:54 AM
I forget...is the infinite damage build possible at level 5? Or was it 7?

Which one? Bassethound's infinitely repeating tiny axe? Cause I think that's lvl 13...

Thinker
2007-10-25, 11:54 AM
What sort of races are you restricted to?

13_CBS
2007-10-25, 11:56 AM
Which one? Bassethound's infinitely repeating tiny axe? Cause I think that's lvl 13...

Yeah, that one.

Huh, I thought it was closer to 7...

dwagiebard
2007-10-25, 11:57 AM
If you have complete arcane, you might want to look at the spell duels section.

Swordguy
2007-10-25, 12:09 PM
Yeah, that one.

Huh, I thought it was closer to 7...

It requires, IIRC, a 6th level stance from ToB and a 1st level Cleric spell, and the Imbued Healing Feat. That means 12 levels of Crusader and a level of Cleric - for 13 levels total.

It's still awesome, though.


Is there any way to make this guy a Warforged Damn Crab or something?

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-25, 12:11 PM
Are Gestalt PCs an option?

With LA buydown rules in effect you could take a +1 template as being paid down.

A Half Iron Golem Barbarian with a Hat of Disguise would be interesting.

Darrin
2007-10-25, 12:13 PM
Yeah, that one.

Huh, I thought it was closer to 7...

BassetKing's original build was ECL 14, I believe (Cleric 1/Crusader 13).

You can get it down to ECL 9 with Bloodline levels.

Person_Man
2007-10-25, 12:18 PM
1st level Rogue Pixie (ECL 5). Greater Invisibility and arrows of Sleep.

Quellian-dyrae
2007-10-25, 12:37 PM
Char 1: Strongheart halfling warblade. This is for dealing with adversaries built for physical combat. You have three feats plus a warblade bonus feat, so take Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Martial Study (Counter Charge), and Improved Initiative. Get a mithral shield and good armor, enchant 'em. Do whatever you can to boost Concentration (custom +5 item, Con boosting...taking a flaw for Skill Focus will, in this one instance, not be frowned upon). You use counter charge to foil charger builds, because they are death. Uncanny Dodge foils most sneak attack builds. Max Tumble to deal with AoO builds. Your primary tactic: Insightful Strike to blatantly ignore your low damage roll the first round; fight defensively + full combat expertise on an attack and recover maneuvers the second round; continue as above until enemy is defeated. The theory is simply this: you have good HD and Con, so your hp should be comparable if not superior to most opponents save maybe barbarians. You'll probably have a better to-hit ratio than your opponent. Even numbered rounds are useless to both of you, but in odd-numbered rounds, you're dealing at least 1d20+10 (you could probably get it up to 1d20+20 or so if you take flaws and focus at it). The opponent is not doing nearly that much unless it is power attacking, and then it has a low chance of hitting your AC thanks to Dex + magic armor + magic shield + size. You win through attrition.

Note: This char can also be used to deal with casters if you keep Moment of Perfect Mind readied and the caster doesn't fly.

Char 2: Human psion. Kineticist. This is for dealing with casters, particularly arcanists, since they fly. Privileged Energy (fire or cold, as you choose) (CPs), Overchannel, and Psionic Mastery (CPs) are the prime feats. Take advantage of their low HD and poor Fort or Ref saves to blast with Energy Missiles for 5d6+10. If they protect from your favored energy, take care of it by Overchanneling a Targeted Dispel Psionics using Practiced Manifester for an automatic result of 17--that will auto-counter any buffs or protections on them. I'd say your best move is to use Synchronicity (CPs) to ready an Energy Missile, and use it either when they try to cast a spell (interrupting the spell with a massive Concentration check) or when their turn elapses if they try to avoid casting. Basically, you shut them down with fire. Or cold.

Hasivel
2007-10-25, 12:38 PM
Sources: Ghostwalk and the WOTC website.

Human Ghost 1/Eidolon 4, using the Savage Progression found here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a

Take only the first level of ghost, and put your other levels in Eidolon. Boost Charisma as much as you can afford with Dex being your other primary stat. Use your first level feat and human bonus feat to get dodge and mobility. Use your third level feat to get spring attack.
Eidolon will get you 3 bonus ghost feats. Take corrupting touch, enervating touch, and one other of your choice to compliment your strategy, or maybe give you some better protection.

Equipment isn't too important, get some potions to protect yourself from nastier effects, like shield for magic missiles.

In combat hide in the floor, spring attack up, touch the target, and spring attack back down into the floor again. Non ghost-touch weapons have only a 50% chance of striking at all, and so do almost all spells aside from magic missile. Virtually everything that could possibly hurt you requires line of effect and nobody will have it as long as you always end your turn inside some solid object. Each of your touches, against only touch AC, inflicts nontyped 1d4 damage, and will bestow a negative level on your target unless the target succeeds on a save, and your high charisma will make that save iffy (it also ups your AC).

It's hardly unbeatable, however. Beware the high-cha cleric with a reserved action to turn undead as soon as you appear.

Solo
2007-10-25, 02:03 PM
ive never really played or seen anyone play a kobold, why do you say that? For the bonus to hide or something?

That's Pun Pun. A fifth level kobold wizard.

Douglas
2007-10-25, 02:15 PM
That's Pun Pun. A fifth level kobold wizard.
As I recall, the (singular) wizard level is only there to get the familiar. The real source of power is the Divine Minion template and the three levels of Master of Many Forms.

Jacob Orlove
2007-10-25, 02:43 PM
In a low-level arena, Alter Self is a house, as is Rope Trick. You'll probably want to be a Cleric with the Magic Domain, and you'll definitely want to be an Outsider. Throw down Rope Trick, head inside to cast all your buffs, turn into an Ice Mephit or Dwarf Ancestor or whatever, and smash. You get Hold Person to hit low Will save people, Silence to mess up spellcasters, and pretty much every other spell in the game if you want it.

Here are some threats you should have a plan for (many have already been mentioned):
Flying opponents
Invisibile opponents
Uberchargers
High-reach AoO builds
"Will Save or lose" spells
Stealth characters (+20 or more to Move Silently and Hide is easy at this level)
Long-range ranged attackers
Summoners (they can easily throw down creatures in the 4-5 CR range)
Artificers (dumpster dive for good spells; you can cast Wall of Stone at character level 3, as just one example).

Ponce
2007-10-25, 02:44 PM
1st level Rogue Pixie (ECL 5). Greater Invisibility and arrows of Sleep.

A few questions about this. Are you certain they get the arrows of sleep? I'm looking at the Pixies as Characters bit. Which takes precedence, that entry for PCs or the monster entry?

Criz Reborn
2007-10-25, 02:56 PM
Sources: Ghostwalk and the WOTC website.

Human Ghost 1/Eidolon 4, using the Savage Progression found here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a

Take only the first level of ghost, and put your other levels in Eidolon. Boost Charisma as much as you can afford with Dex being your other primary stat. Use your first level feat and human bonus feat to get dodge and mobility. Use your third level feat to get spring attack.
Eidolon will get you 3 bonus ghost feats. Take corrupting touch, enervating touch, and one other of your choice to compliment your strategy, or maybe give you some better protection.

Equipment isn't too important, get some potions to protect yourself from nastier effects, like shield for magic missiles.

In combat hide in the floor, spring attack up, touch the target, and spring attack back down into the floor again. Non ghost-touch weapons have only a 50% chance of striking at all, and so do almost all spells aside from magic missile. Virtually everything that could possibly hurt you requires line of effect and nobody will have it as long as you always end your turn inside some solid object. Each of your touches, against only touch AC, inflicts nontyped 1d4 damage, and will bestow a negative level on your target unless the target succeeds on a save, and your high charisma will make that save iffy (it also ups your AC).

It's hardly unbeatable, however. Beware the high-cha cleric with a reserved action to turn undead as soon as you appear.

I like this idea a lot. Im not very familiar with the sources but Im going to look them up. Also, I just found out one of my friends plans to create a psion, any classes or feats or anything I can take to just shut him down?

Hasivel
2007-10-25, 03:19 PM
A few questions about this. Are you certain they get the arrows of sleep? I'm looking at the Pixies as Characters bit. Which takes precedence, that entry for PCs or the monster entry?
Savage Species has a price for arrows of sleep that pixies can pay for to craft.

But I certainly wouldn't play a pixie rogue in an ECL 5 game. The HP will be so low a single hit from virtually anything will kill it instantly, and the pixie won't have evasion so 1 fireball, f'rex, and it's all over even if the pixie makes it save. Invisibility won't help since it's an AoO spell and there's plenty of counters for invisibility anyway; See Invisible's only a second level spell and glitterdust is easy to get.

kemmotar
2007-10-25, 07:01 PM
For dealing with casters, especially wizards, a whisper gnome fighter with silence strike is ideal...You silence the caster, no save if you hit. Improved initiative and somewhat high dex for TWF and you're set...

Feats:
1)quick draw-silencing strike
2)improved initiative
3)two weapon fighting
+2 level rogue:smallbiggrin:
and one level rogue. You take the initiative easilly. Attack with main hand and offhand, make the main hand attack a silencing strike(silence, no save). The caster hasn't had time to buff up so he has pretty sucky AC. He probably won't be able to cast anything after that or at least won't be able to use his higher level spells and will be restricted to 2nd level spells(that's for level 5) so he can't fly to get away...after that it's a pretty easy fight...no spells to cast, no defence and no way to escape...This build might also work well enough with melee classes too...Also silencing strike is good for any level caster...Might have trouble though with a CoDzilla but those aren't much of a competition for anyone...

As it was mentioned Pun Pun needs 5 levels. 1 level divine minion, 1 level wizard and 3 master of many forms. Link for Pun Pun and other campaign smashers:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=491801
*warning not to be taken seriously for campaigns as warned in the thread for those seeing this for the first time*:smalltongue:

OneWinged4ngel
2007-10-25, 07:05 PM
I forget...is the infinite damage build possible at level 5? Or was it 7?

Infinite damage is possible earlier than level 5, actually.

Also, the new build for Pun Pun works at LEVEL ONE. Not level 5.

Falrin
2007-10-25, 07:06 PM
Buff time?

No? 3 Rounds? 10 min & hour buffs? ...


Arena?

How high? Hiding Places? ...


Starting Position?

Charging Distance? Barabrian Charging? Close Range Spells? ...


As mentioned Druid or Cleric are probably your best bets.

A rogue hiding the enemies buffs out seems nice too.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-10-25, 09:29 PM
For dealing with casters, especially wizards, a whisper gnome fighter with silence strike is ideal...You silence the caster, no save if you hit. Improved initiative and somewhat high dex for TWF and you're set...

I like this idea (whispergnomes ROCK), but I think it could be made a bit better. You don't need Silencing Strike, since whispergnomes get silence 1/day on themselves.

Be a whispergnome rogue with the Dark template (Tome of Magic, LA+1) for Hide in Plain Sight in anything but full daylight. Hide, then silence yourself, then sneak up to 30 ft of your enemy and sneak attack with a bow. You can make a Hide check with a -20 penalty to snipe and stay hidden, easily done with a whispergnome. Sneak Attack your opponent to death without them ever knowing where you are. Having something to provide shadow is quite helpful as well, in case it IS full daylight.

Goumindong
2007-10-25, 09:43 PM
I would probably go with A Grey Elf Wizard Enchanter with high dex and improved initiative, spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment.

Hold Person, DC 20 save or lose.

I.E. after they drop to your DC 20 spell coup-de-grace.

Criz Reborn
2007-10-25, 10:04 PM
Infinite damage is possible earlier than level 5, actually.

Also, the new build for Pun Pun works at LEVEL ONE. Not level 5.

how is it lvl 1 now??

martyboy74
2007-10-25, 10:10 PM
If you say Pazuzu's name 3 times, he gives you a wish. Pazuzu is in the Fiendish Codex I. There are some minor side effects, but nothing game-stopping. To learn this, you need to make a DC 25 Knowledge (the planes) check.

Ok, so you get a wish. You wish for a candle of invocation, and it's in core, so you can find it in the d20 SRD. If you don't want to look it up, then here's a summary of the important part: it lets you cast gate once. You gate in an efreet. Efreets can give up to 3 wishes a day. You command him to grant three wishes: another candle of invocation, a change into a scaly one, and a trip to any other plane, preferably a non-hostile one.

At this other plane, you gate in a Sarrukh. The Sarrukh uses Manipulate Form to give you Manipulate Form. The rest is as in the thread.

(Copied from Think0028's sig from the WoTC boards).

Goumindong
2007-10-25, 10:13 PM
Do you have enouch CL to control those creatures?

Darrin
2007-10-25, 10:38 PM
how is it lvl 1 now??

It can be tough to track down, and there are several versions... I believe Think0028's level 1 psion is the most commonly mentioned build now. Essentially you stack up a bunch of feats/traits/items to make a DC 25 Knowledge (Planes) check, which means you know that there's a demonic fiend called Pazuzu who will appear if you say his name three times and grant you a wish in exchange for changing your alignment to CE. You then wish for a candle of invocation. Gate in an efreeti, and order him to use his three wishes to give you 1) another candle of invocation, 2) transfer you to another non-hostile plane, and 3) polymorph you into a scaly-kind/scaly-one or give you the Snake-Blooded feat. From there you can gate in a sarrukh and order him to give you Manipulate Form.

I'm not entirely sure how control over a gated creature is established. All the posts I can find seem to assume that a creature summoned via a candle of invocation is compelled to do as you say... but I can't find anything in the candle's description or the gate spell that explains how a level 1 psion can control an efreet or sarrukh.

Check this thread for more details:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=491801&page=94

Goumindong
2007-10-25, 11:19 PM
They would have to have lower HD than the candles caster level since that is the level of the spell.

However, the spell does say "your" caster level, which might make it different.

Idea Man
2007-10-25, 11:44 PM
Since Pazuzu isn't going to give Pun-Pun a wish unless he advances Pazuzu's cause, I think it's kind of a moot point. Of course, he could, if he wanted to.

Level 5 build, let me see...

DruZilla? - Wild shape (medium or small), animal companion, min/max attributes...not bad.

Rogue 4 plus X? - Evasion and uncanny dodge in an unknown opponent can be handy, plus a spare level in another class to maximize.

Paladin 5? - A little risky. If the ground rules say you can use the smite on anybody, go for it. If not...it's still not bad. Warhorse still outcalsses the majority of animal companions, high saves...AC...HP...

Gralamin
2007-10-26, 12:08 AM
Since Pazuzu isn't going to give Pun-Pun a wish unless he advances Pazuzu's cause, I think it's kind of a moot point. Of course, he could, if he wanted to.

Level 5 build, let me see...

DruZilla? - Wild shape (medium or small), animal companion, min/max attributes...not bad.

Rogue 4 plus X? - Evasion and uncanny dodge in an unknown opponent can be handy, plus a spare level in another class to maximize.

Paladin 5? - A little risky. If the ground rules say you can use the smite on anybody, go for it. If not...it's still not bad. Warhorse still outcalsses the majority of animal companions, high saves...AC...HP...

Pazuzu will if your a Paladin. The build I saw used a Paladin 1, who has no ill side effects when getting a wish from Pazuzu (At least the first time).

Kizara
2007-10-26, 12:17 AM
1) Get a druid with a fleshraker animal companion. (MM3)

Also, wildshape into a fleshraker after casting greater magic fang on your pal.

I'd like to see any kind of caster stand up to a fleshraker at this level, including a cleric.

Feats: improved initiative, natural bond (now your fleshraker has more HD!)
Be non-human for extra coolness, I recomend elf, since it makes it easier to get high initiative.

EDIT: Scratch that, take natural bond, companion spell (PHB2) for non-human, or if human also get improved initiative.

2) ToB cheese, see previous posts.

3) Barbarian 1 (lion totem variant in complete champion)/fighter 1/paladin of freedom 3 http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny

Feats: power attack, extra rage (unless its only 1 fight in the arena/day, then dump this), intimidating rage (works WONDERS on another melee opponent, and your cha is doubtless going to be good anyways), reckless rage.

Pfft, good luck breaking this guy's saves.

Idea Man
2007-10-26, 12:29 AM
Pazuzu will if your a Paladin. The build I saw used a Paladin 1, who has no ill side effects when getting a wish from Pazuzu (At least the first time).

Requirement: Pun-Pun must subdue and sacrifice (coup-de-grace) a lawful good character before the battle ends. It is a one shot, after all. :smallwink:
Otherwise, the runner-up wins.

ronnyfire
2007-10-26, 01:50 AM
mounted combat ftw? i prolly cant make the best mounted combat guy at 5th level considering all i have at hand is a PHB.. but you can still make some scary damage that way xP.

Darkantra
2007-10-26, 05:14 AM
Heh heh, not too good in a 1v1v1 but in a 1v1...

Half-Giant level 1 Monk, level 3 Psychic Warrior
Takes Improved Grapple and Earth's Embrace as a 1st level Monk, Weapon Focus (grapple) as a 1st level Psychic Warrior, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) and Scorpion's Grasp as a 2nd level Psychic Warrior.

He'll know the powers Force Screen, Grip of Iron and Expansion and will have 8 PP with a Wis of 14-15 and 9 PP with a Wis of 16-17

Battle begins and if this character has 9 PP he manifests Force Screenthen he manifests Expansion, giving the extra 6 PP to increase his size by 2 steps (effectively making him gargantuan for grappling). If he only has 8 PP then he just manifests the 7 PP Expansion. As soon as he gets within range for an unarmed strike and hits, he manifests Grip of Iron and uses Scorpion's Grasp to start a free grapple. Pinning the opponent as soon as possible for the win.

Grapple modifier
+12 Gargantuan
+4 Improved Grapple
+3 BAB
+4 Grip of Iron
+2 Str increase
+Whatever Str mod he has
=+25-29

While grappling will deal: 2d6+2(huge sized expansion)+?(Str mod)+1d12(while pinning)

Grynning
2007-10-26, 05:55 AM
Jacob Orlov: I don't think Alter Self is really that powerful, it doesn't change your stats or give you any SQ's or Special abilities, only the raw physical form. Turning into a Mephit, for instance, would let you fly and make you small with some ok natural Armor, but most of their abilities are Su or Spell Like, so you wouldn't have them.

I agree that Druid is probably the best choice for this situation. If you wanted to really annoy people, go pure arcane caster and just spam the Suggestions and Charm Persons. You could win the fight by default without anyone actually taking damage if you did it just right - everyone would just be your pal or Suggested into not wanting to (or able to, depending on how you word it) fight anymore :smalltongue:

Edit:This is similar to Goum's suggestion at the top of the page.
Edit again: I am losing my mind, I must have somehow skipped a whole page of the thread. L2 check post-times, gryn *slaps self*

Tengu
2007-10-26, 06:07 AM
Battle begins and if this character has 9 PP he manifests Force Screenthen he manifests Expansion, giving the extra 6 PP to increase his size by 2 steps (effectively making him gargantuan for grappling).

http://www.pbones.com/images/blobimages/20061129morbo.gif
Psionics does not work that way!

You cannot spend more power points on a single power manifestation than your manifester level.

Grynning
2007-10-26, 06:10 AM
Lol, Morvo FTW

And he's right, with that build (ML 3) you could only spend 3 pp on any 1 manifestation.

Armads
2007-10-26, 07:17 AM
Warforged Ex-Monk 4/Barbarian 1
Take Power Throw, Shape Soulmeld (diadem of purelight)
Buy as many clubs as you can carry (they're free anyway) and a masterwork tumble tool. Get a scythe to coup de grace someone when they fall asleep. Get the best cloak of resistance you can afford.
Max out your Jump and Tumble skills (with a 14 in dex, thats a +14 to tumble)

The diadem of purelight lets you illuminate things around you, so you can see where you're going in case it turns dark. Ready an action to move away (tumbling the first few feet) in case anyone attacks or casts a spell at you. Then just outlive them (unless they're Elans, then you kill them by waiting for nonlethal damage to kill them because they can't sleep properly).

If you don't want to try to kill you, then throw clubs at them, using your superior speed (you should be moving 50ft per round) to keep safe).

Accersitus
2007-10-26, 08:00 AM
As I recall, the (singular) wizard level is only there to get the familiar. The real source of power is the Divine Minion template and the three levels of Master of Many Forms.

Btw, does anyone here know how pun-pun uses the Manipulate Form ability that require a scaled one native to Toril, when a Divine Minion on the material plane had the extraplanar subtype and thus is not native to the material plane.

Jacob Orlove
2007-10-26, 01:37 PM
Jacob Orlov: I don't think Alter Self is really that powerful, it doesn't change your stats or give you any SQ's or Special abilities, only the raw physical form. Turning into a Mephit, for instance, would let you fly and make you small with some ok natural Armor, but most of their abilities are Su or Spell Like, so you wouldn't have them.
Right, all you get is 300-500 rounds of flight (with perfect maneuverability) and some okay NA. That's still much, much stronger than the 5 rounds of flight a 5th level caster gets from the Fly spell, and should be enough time to kill someone with arrows or Magic Missile or whatever.

If you want access to actual Polymorph, you can, of course, craft a scroll of it as an Artificer 5.

Grynning
2007-10-28, 04:10 AM
Good point on the flight thing. I guess in my experience combat doesn't usually last long enough for that to matter too much, but in this situation it could be handy given the multiple combatants and (Presumably) large area.

Edit: just re-read the spell - you couldn't actually turn into a Mephit with Alter Self. The creature has to have the same type as you, so if you were humanoid, you could only do other humanoids (mephits are outsiders). I guess if you were a Planetouched that would work though.

Kizara
2007-10-28, 04:56 AM
Warforged Ex-Monk 4/Barbarian 1
Take Power Throw, Shape Soulmeld (diadem of purelight)
Buy as many clubs as you can carry (they're free anyway) and a masterwork tumble tool. Get a scythe to coup de grace someone when they fall asleep. Get the best cloak of resistance you can afford.
Max out your Jump and Tumble skills (with a 14 in dex, thats a +14 to tumble)

The diadem of purelight lets you illuminate things around you, so you can see where you're going in case it turns dark. Ready an action to move away (tumbling the first few feet) in case anyone attacks or casts a spell at you. Then just outlive them (unless they're Elans, then you kill them by waiting for nonlethal damage to kill them because they can't sleep properly).

If you don't want to try to kill you, then throw clubs at them, using your superior speed (you should be moving 50ft per round) to keep safe).


I don't know what the heck diadem of purelight is, but I'm pretty sure that my fleshraker (50ft movespeed, +28 to jump checks, gets a tripping pounce attack as his charge action) would ream your build utterly.

leperkhaun
2007-10-28, 11:05 AM
if they allow it, the pixie rogue as someone suggested.

greater invise and just plink at them with a small sized bow.

vegetalss4
2007-10-28, 12:31 PM
Infinite damage is possible earlier than level 5, actually.

Also, the new build for Pun Pun works at LEVEL ONE. Not level 5.

i am curius where can i find that build?

Irbis
2007-10-28, 01:59 PM
Warforged paladin 5.

With careful choice of feats you can become immune to almost anything lev 5 casters/rogues can do to you, and you're just as strong as most melee guys. Plus, lev 5 means 3 dump stats, and only 3 that are important at all [cha, con, str, maybe wis, in that order]. Also, you have a lot more money than other builds [masterworked adamantine fullplate for free for one feat, dr or 100% immunity to sneak attacks/criticals among others for another].

Plus, you have an allied warhorse and can heal a lot of damage if something goes wrong.

Armads
2007-10-29, 07:18 AM
I don't know what the heck diadem of purelight is, but I'm pretty sure that my fleshraker (50ft movespeed, +28 to jump checks, gets a tripping pounce attack as his charge action) would ream your build utterly.

Not really. When you charge me, right before you attack (but after you announce an attack), I tumble away as part of my readied action. Then I maintain my readied action until you die of old age.

Diadem of Purelight just creates light. I use it to avoid getting killed at night.

Kurald Galain
2007-10-29, 07:53 AM
Not really. When you charge me, right before you attack (but after you announce an attack), I tumble away as part of my readied action. Then I maintain my readied action until you die of old age.

That only works if the tumbling gets you out of range of said attack, which is not a given for ranged attaks and/or spells. Also, it only works as long as you're not actually doing anything useful yourself. In other words, you can stall but you can't win that way.

Armads
2007-10-29, 08:01 AM
I win by outliving them... I use tumble (and my move speed) to get out of line of effect, so i don't get hit by ranged attacks. Also, if they target my square for, say, an arrow, and I tumble to another square, they'll automatically miss. Unfortunately, this character dies to summoners, magic missile, invisible people, so something like Wizard 5 would probably be the best (fly, fell draining kelgore's gravemist)

Tengu
2007-10-29, 08:03 AM
Warforged Ex-Monk 4/Barbarian 1
Take Power Throw, Shape Soulmeld (diadem of purelight)
Buy as many clubs as you can carry (they're free anyway) and a masterwork tumble tool. Get a scythe to coup de grace someone when they fall asleep. Get the best cloak of resistance you can afford.
Max out your Jump and Tumble skills (with a 14 in dex, thats a +14 to tumble)

The diadem of purelight lets you illuminate things around you, so you can see where you're going in case it turns dark. Ready an action to move away (tumbling the first few feet) in case anyone attacks or casts a spell at you. Then just outlive them (unless they're Elans, then you kill them by waiting for nonlethal damage to kill them because they can't sleep properly).

If you don't want to try to kill you, then throw clubs at them, using your superior speed (you should be moving 50ft per round) to keep safe).

What about spells with such a range that you cannot run away from it in one round?

Jacob Orlove
2007-10-29, 11:17 AM
Edit: just re-read the spell - you couldn't actually turn into a Mephit with Alter Self. The creature has to have the same type as you, so if you were humanoid, you could only do other humanoids (mephits are outsiders). I guess if you were a Planetouched that would work though.
Yeah, that's why I said:

...and you'll definitely want to be an Outsider.
There are a lot of ways to manage that, though. A few LA +0 races are outsiders, or you can spend a feat on it.

Kurald Galain
2007-10-29, 11:25 AM
if they target my square for, say, an arrow, and I tumble to another square, they'll automatically miss.

I seriously doubt it actually works that way. People will target you with an arrow, not the square you're in - and if you happen to move, they're still targeting you, assuming you haven't tumbled out of range or behind a wall or something. It would be quite silly to allow someone with a readied action to automatically dodge all missile attacks, after all.

Segial
2007-10-29, 08:48 PM
Dwarf Fighter 2/ Barbarian 3

Fears: Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Leap, Shook Trooper

Skills: Max Intimidate and Leap

Weapon: Greataxe
Armor: Breastplate

Tough, and deals more damage with a charge then most characters can handle.

Enguhl
2007-10-29, 11:40 PM
Whispergnome Ninja.
Turn invisible, cast silence, sudden strike, crazy hide/move silently... mmmm..

Tengu
2007-10-30, 07:42 AM
Dwarf Fighter 2/ Barbarian 3

Fears: Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Leap, Shook Trooper

Skills: Max Intimidate and Leap

Weapon: Greataxe
Armor: Breastplate

Tough, and deals more damage with a charge then most characters can handle.

Don't you need 6 BAB for Shock Trooper?

Armads
2007-10-30, 08:30 AM
Wizard 5 wins. Fell Draining Kelgore's gravemist (or acid arrow, but has Fell Drain been errata'ed or anything?): Fatigued, 1 negative level, no save.

Surdej
2007-11-29, 02:59 AM
I'd say rouge 5. Max out your use magic device skill, and start buying wands and scrolls - that way you can prepare for most things.

Jack Zander
2007-11-29, 03:11 AM
NO!!! Threadomancy!

Turn Undead!