Bard 3 spell selection

[blackjack50]

I’ve gone lore bard. I am new to spell casing. And so I am looking for some help spell selecting. My party consists of a monk, ranger (with crossbow), a wizard, and me the bard. So I have kind of become the designated healer. So the revivify seems like where I need to go. But I also know my combat utility is limited. So any advice on spells would be nice.

[Zetakya]

I'm not entirely sure what's being asked here, but given the mention of Revivify I assume that you've just got the sixth level of Bard and are asking what spells would be good choice for Additional Magical Secrets?

Most people swear by Counterspell, but your Wizard can (& probably should) handle that.

As far as Revivify goes you are certainly the only person (barring Multi-classing) who will have access to it.

[blackjack50]

I'm not entirely sure what's being asked here, but given the mention of Revivify I assume that you've just got the sixth level of Bard and are asking what spells would be good choice for Additional Magical Secrets?

Most people swear by Counterspell, but your Wizard can (& probably should) handle that.

As far as Revivify goes you are certainly the only person (barring Multi-classing) who will have access to it.

I said revivify but I meant minor restoration ***

I am just looking for 1st and 2nd le el spells to have

[Zetakya]

I said revivify but I meant minor restoration ***

I am just looking for 1st and 2nd le el spells to have

Ahhh ok, well:

What Spells do you already have? You should have 5, and you get to pick a sixth and you can swap one of your existing spells for a new one as well if you want.

Is there an existing spell you haven't found very useful?

I personally would probably seek to have two second level spells when reaching 3rd level. Lesser Restoration is certainly a reasonable pick as the only real healer available to your party, but are you finding that your party is facing a lot of the conditions that is cures?

[Bobthewizard]

I like the following spells:

C - Minor illusion and Vicious Mockery
1 - Tasha's Laughter, Faerie Fire, Healing Word
2 - Suggestion, Lesser Restoration

And then take one of dissonant whispers, thunderwave or shatter

Others you could add depending on the campaign:

Feather fall, disguise self, charm person, invisibility

[Guy Lombard-O]

I said revivify but I meant minor restoration ***

I am just looking for 1st and 2nd le el spells to have

New spells at 2nd level? Pick two of the following based upon what scenarios and enemies you've been seeing and expect to continue seeing:

-Blindness (We face a lot of encounters with one powerful, not-too-sturdy enemy, like a powerful spellcaster);

-Enhance Ability (We face a lot of non-combat social and exploration pillar challenges, and one of more of my comrades are always failing at them);

-Heat Metal (We're seeing a lot of BBGs who are heavily armored humanoids);

-Invisibility (We either do or want to begin scouting the enemy for better info than a familiar can relay, or want to sneak toward or away from things);

-Lesser Restoration (We keep getting poisoned, paralyzed or blinded...a lot);

-Suggestion (I personally want to bend the civilized world to my will in a godlike manner, and I think I'm clever enough to phrase things in such a way as to make them sound barely semi-plausible).


For first level, keep Faerie Fire, Healing Word and either Disguise Self or Tasha's HL. Dissonant Whispers is a great spell, but I don't think it adds enough value with this particular party.

[ImproperJustice]

Speak with Plants.

A disturbingly useful spell for information gathering, and neutralizing a lot of difficult terrain affects, or creating some of your own.
With high enough persuasion you gain unexpected allies from various encounters.

Our Bard picked it up at level 6, and it seems to come into play more than anyone would have thought.

As far as level 2 spells, the cream of the crop has already been mentioned.
Lesser restoration is nice sometimes but rarely a game changer in my experience.

If you can grab any level 2 wonder spell, you might ask your GM how they feel about Healing Spirit....

Otherwise I like spiritual weapon for no concentration bonus damage.
You can combine it with a concentration spell, in addition to having a conversation with nearby shrubs to hinder your foes.

[Expired]

I'm not entirely sure what's being asked here, but given the mention of Revivify I assume that you've just got the sixth level of Bard and are asking what spells would be good choice for Additional Magical Secrets?

Most people swear by Counterspell, but your Wizard can (& probably should) handle that.

As far as Revivify goes you are certainly the only person (barring Multi-classing) who will have access to it.
Even though a Wizard can use it, there should always be more than one caster with Counterspell—it's that good. And you get to add Jack of All Trades, Bardic Inspiration, and Glibness, making you the best at Counterspell tied with Abjuration Wizards.

[blackjack50]

Ahhh ok, well:

What Spells do you already have? You should have 5, and you get to pick a sixth and you can swap one of your existing spells for a new one as well if you want.

Is there an existing spell you haven't found very useful?

I personally would probably seek to have two second level spells when reaching 3rd level. Lesser Restoration is certainly a reasonable pick as the only real healer available to your party, but are you finding that your party is facing a lot of the conditions that is cures?

Spells are Charm Person, comprehend languages, sleep, healing word, and disguise self. I’ve only used sleep and healing word so far. Just the circumstances. My utility has been mostly social, but because I have high charisma stats? I haven’t needed any RP oriented spells. We are also still kind of starting out.

[Eldariel]

Healing Word and Lesser Restoration are kinda musts. Other than that, on this level:
- Sleep is still god tier.
- Suggestion is an 8 hour Save-or-lose targeting Wis that has massive non-combat benefits as well.
- Dissonant Whispers is a great single target combat spell on save-and-still-take-damage basis.
- Enhance Ability is top tier for all skill utility. Better than all the Charms and company.
- Invisibility and Silence are other great 2nd level spells (Lich grappled in Silence is nigh' useless)
- Thunderwave, Silent Image (though mind the redundancy with Minor Illusion), Unseen Servant, Bane, Detect Magic, Disguise Self, and Faerie Fire are all worth considering as well.

[Zetakya]

Spells are Charm Person, comprehend languages, sleep, healing word, and disguise self. I’ve only used sleep and healing word so far. Just the circumstances. My utility has been mostly social, but because I have high charisma stats? I haven’t needed any RP oriented spells. We are also still kind of starting out.

Overall that's a pretty good set. I tend to think Charm Person is a long-term liability, because the target knows it has been charmed, but that's entirely on you to evaluate.

Sleep is generally held to tail off in combat effectiveness as you gain levels, because of how it calculates how people are effected. It's still useful as a way of neutralising low-level people who you don't want to kill, mind you, it just loses its combat edge.

Comprehend Languages depends entirely on your DM - if languages are never an issue, it's useless, if they are it can be lifesaver.

[KorvinStarmast]

My party consists of a monk, ranger (with crossbow), a wizard, and me the bard.
You note that you are the healer. Got it.
Spells are Charm Person, comprehend languages, sleep, healing word, and disguise self. I’ve only used sleep and healing word so far. Just the circumstances. My utility has been mostly social, but because I have high charisma stats? I haven’t needed any RP oriented spells. We are also still kind of starting out.

For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the bard spells you know and replace it with another spell from the bard spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
New Spell to add: Lesser Restoration.
You know six spells now, you used to know 5.
Keep Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Healing Word, Sleep.
Dump Charm person. Get Dissonant Whispers in its place.

[Eldariel]

You note that you are the healer. Got it.
Dump Charm person. You can get around situations for using this lame spell in other ways.
Add Dissonant Whispers in its place.

Dump Sleep. It's time has come and gone.

Add Lesser Restoration. (Level 2)

If you want an "enemy influencing spell" Suggestion can do some neat stuff. Somewhat depends on your DM, but it's a load better than Charm Person.

IMO, adding Faerie Fire is also a good idea, but for the moment, That's how I'd change the line up now that you hit level 3.

Sleep is still great on 3rd level. Groups of Goblins/Orcs/Kobolds/Hobgoblins/Wolves/Bandits/etc. are still frequent enough and Sleep is just about the most reliable tool there. Depending on game, it's pretty much great all tier 1 and might start falling off starting from tier 2. I don't think there's a single published module, where it would be bad this early. No longer autosolution to every fight but pretty high up there.

[KorvinStarmast]

Sleep is still great on 3rd level. Groups of Goblins/Orcs/Kobolds/Hobgoblins/Wolves/Bandits/etc. are still frequent enough and Sleep is just about the most reliable tool there. Depending on game, it's pretty much great all tier 1 and might start falling off starting from tier 2.
Yes, I revised the answer when I realized you can only dump one at level 3. Keeping sleep now is a good idea.

[Eldariel]

Bane is a Charisma save AOE which makes it nice. Phantasmal Force is a single target Int (!!) save-or-lose, which is nice but hard to fit into your crowded 2nd level slot. Definitely do vary up your spell saves so you have tools against different opponents.

Dissonant Whispers/Suggestion for Wis, Bane for Cha, Thunderwave for Con potentially, Phantasmal Force for Int even more speculatively. Faerie Fire is Dex AOE with utility even on save. Earth Tremor would be Dex but it's quite mediocre. Sleep, and Illusions obviously have no saves.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Get used to that.

Get Dissonant Whispers. It does reasonable damage but not only do you get to whistle the X Files theme song BUT use it on enemies who are in melee and your allies get opportunity attacks when they flee.

At 6 when you can snag spells with Magival Secreats, wait for the shocked faces when u grab Conjure Animals and your pack of wolves not only do their attack damage but then all get an opportunity attack!

[DrKerosene]

When you get to higher levels, I would probably consider swapping Healing Word for Healing Spirit, no matter if the DM uses the newest version or a looser version. Unless your DM has been consistent about trying to break Concentration/target healers.

Alternatively, it’s hard to beat Goodberry. Spend all your remaining spell slots on it before a Long Rest (possibly set up a timer with Magic Mouth to wake up 1 hour before the end of your Long Rest, to abuse the rest rules and minimize the window for night-time encounters being an issue). Give out a bunch of healing Berries to the Party, and use them to finish “topping up” when a healing spell/potion might result in wasted HP on a good roll).

Lesser Restoration is very handy when you do need it, and you should be facing more and more creatures with relevant disabling features as time goes on.



For non-healing Magic Secrets, how about Find Steed (paladin) and Armor Of Agathys (warlock)? Pre-heal yourself and the Mount with AoA, and then step in to face-tank.

Or replace AoA with Heat Metal, cast it and then flee on your mount, 20d6 fire damage against pretty much any armored enemy.

I like Conjure Animals, but it can be tedious if you or the DM is not prepared for the extra rolls. If you can wait until you can cast Conjure Woodland Beings, I believe you can get a Dryad who can cast Goodberry 3 times, which is nice in addition to all the other things they can do.

[Kereea]

I too will back Dissonant Whispers. It can do so much utility just by forcing an enemy to move and in my opinion is one of the best Lv 1 spells in the game. When done right, you can provoke Attacks of Opportunity from other members of your party. For example, say you are backing up the monk, who is engaged with an enemy brawler. You cast Dissonant Whispers and the brawler fails the save. They then must move as far away from you as the movement allows, which means not properly disengaging from the monk who therefore gets a free attack on the enemy.

Heat Metal has also gotten a ton of utility for me, especially in my last campaign. Any enemy in metal armor or holding a metal weapon is fair game, and the damage is no joke, even more so if you can hold your concentration for multiple rounds and keep re-doing the damage as a bonus action.

Silence can also be good, if you need to take out an enemy caster and Counterspell is for whatever reason not available.

Shatter is one of the better Bard AOE spells. Again, gotten good use out of it, and if your DM is a stickler for spell component use, a small chip of mica is easy to come by.

As a Lv. 4 spell, I've never gone wrong with Greater Invisibility. After Dissonant Whispers, most-used spell by my Lore Bard, either on myself to survive (I was under-leveled in an epic level party) or the Monk to make him even MORE of a death machine.

However, as there's an Arcane Caster in your party, I do recommend coordinating with them a bit if learning Arcane spells. As you mentioned, you're the Healer, so your Spell Secrets may go towards learning Divine or Druid magic instead to round things out.

[Ashrym]

At 3rd level as default healer lesser restoration is the obvious choice.

For other comments, I agree with dissonant whispers as well. It's a nice damage set up spell that doesn't require using the limited number of secrets available. Compulsion is a decent upgrade to it for longer battles later on because the same trick becomes repeatable subsequent rounds off of the one spell and can be used on multiple targets.

Calm emotions can also be used for some status removal and a person might look at taking it for thematic reasons but there are useful spells mentioned earlier in this thread.


When you get to higher levels, I would probably consider swapping Healing Word for Healing Spirit, no matter if the DM uses the newest version or a looser version.

The errata nerf made that a harder choice. Prayer of healing is suddenly worthwhile again over healing spirit with secrets outside of combat.

[DrKerosene]

The errata nerf made that a harder choice. Prayer of healing is suddenly worthwhile again over healing spirit with secrets outside of combat.

It is unlikely the DM will be targeting healers and trying to break concentration while out of combat, in which case Prayer Of Healing is the best of the three spells, especially if you don’t have any time limits.

But I was mostly talking about death yo-yo healing in combat.

In the context of having Healing Word as the primary known healing spell for a Bard PC, I’d still expect Healing Spirit to be a better use of a single second level spell slot than Healing Word (especially it you don’t expect to regularly have 10 minutes to heal), and similarly for a Sorcerer (build or multiclass) using sorcerery points. At least when past low-level play.

If you’re regularly using Healing Word multiple times in a single combat encounter, Healing Spirit should generally be better (at least if you can hit two or more downed PCs with it). Except when using Concentration on something else.

[Guy Lombard-O]

It is unlikely the DM will be targeting healers and trying to break concentration while out of combat, in which case Prayer Of Healing is the best of the three spells, especially if you don’t have any time limits.

But I was mostly talking about death yo-yo healing in combat.

In the context of having Healing Word as the primary known healing spell for a Bard PC, I’d still expect Healing Spirit to be a better use of a single second level spell slot than Healing Word (especially it you don’t expect to regularly have 10 minutes to heal), and similarly for a Sorcerer (build or multiclass) using sorcerery points. At least when past low-level play.

If you’re regularly using Healing Word multiple times in a single combat encounter, Healing Spirit should generally be better (at least if you can hit two or more downed PCs with it). Except when using Concentration on something else.

I mean, it probably is better. But at the cost of a whole Magical Secret? I'm not sure it's really that much better.

[Ashrym]

It is unlikely the DM will be targeting healers and trying to break concentration while out of combat, in which case Prayer Of Healing is the best of the three spells, especially if you don’t have any time limits.

But I was mostly talking about death yo-yo healing in combat.

In the context of having Healing Word as the primary known healing spell for a Bard PC, I’d still expect Healing Spirit to be a better use of a single second level spell slot than Healing Word (especially it you don’t expect to regularly have 10 minutes to heal), and similarly for a Sorcerer (build or multiclass) using sorcerery points. At least when past low-level play.

If you’re regularly using Healing Word multiple times in a single combat encounter, Healing Spirit should generally be better (at least if you can hit two or more downed PCs with it). Except when using Concentration on something else.

I agree. I was just saying it's a harder choice now. Pre-errata healing spirit was the obvious choice and now in combat vs out of combat has a trade off between the two.

[DrKerosene]

I mean, it probably is better. But at the cost of a whole Magical Secret? I'm not sure it's really that much better.
Depends.
If you don’t have a lot of Bonus Actions.
If you have a lot of Concentration spells.
If you’re relying on yo-yo death healing against dumb monsters.
If you’re facing smart mage-slayers.
If you want to attack too, or cast Cantrips to contribute to damage.
If you combo healing spells with Beacon Of Hope, or other class features.
How urgent time is, etc.

The new version clearly allows a Party to run through a Healing Spirit and potentially use all the healing in less than a full turn. Which means you could cast it in front while the whole Party is Dashing.

The closest comparable quick mass healing spell would be Mass Cure Wounds? You’d have to be level 18 to get three slots to cast it with, but Healing Spirit can use 2nd level slots. Upcasting to 5th level provides up to 6 instances of 4d6 healing, versus up to 6 instances of 3d8+5. Except you can probably dump all the healing on one or two PCs as needed.

If you have time for Prayer Of Healing, cool, it’s amazing, but I think Healing Spirit is still more “versatile” if you want to have only one spell for HP healing. If you’re out of combat, but time is still important, Healing Spirit still hits a nice middle ground between “fast” and “spell slot efficient”.


I agree. I was just saying it's a harder choice now. Pre-errata healing spirit was the obvious choice and now in combat vs out of combat has a trade off between the two.

Yes, which allows the one scenario where I find Goodberry to be amazing (a resource storing use for spell slots you didn’t spend during the day).

[RingoBongo]

I've been planning out my early spells pretty meticulously since starting a new game. I've started at swords bard 3 and plan to only go to bard 6 then multiclass rogue for the rest.

My selections are based off these factors:
- play style (as a swords bard/ swashbuckler rogue I plan to use melee weapon attack actions quite a bit. So whatever spell I cast will be at the cost of an attack so it had better be worth it)
- party composition (assuming certain caster classes will have certain spells known/prepared, such as a cleric having lesser restoration or a wizard having good aoe damage spells, etc... And with x2 melee fighters I know I can get pretty good mileage out of dissonant whispers)
- variety of save throws (Cha, Con, and Wis)
- house rules (such as flanking -- which is more than enough to forget about faerie fire)

Here are my spells right now:
1st level - healing word, dissonant whispers, bane
2nd level - warding wind, blindness deafness, invisibility

I plan to end my progression to bard 6 with the addition of...
- bestow curse (3rd level)
- hypnotic pattern (3rd level)
- tiny hut (3rd level) OR see invisibility (2nd level)

[Aaron Underhand]

You are filling a support role as a bard, and in your case party mix pretty much makes Lesser Restoration mandatory.

You have a wizard, but perhaps no one who will be front line... you can expect to get swamped.

If you can I would pass Comprehend languages to the wizard so (s)he can write it in and use it as a ritual. Only one of you needs the spell, and this way it is not taking a precious preparation slot.

To replace it I would get another second level spell, or something that upcasts well. There is a very good argument for Enhance Ability, as it is not on the Wizard spell list, and it is likely to get used out of combat when lesser restoration is not needed. However if you find yourself swamped and need to move people the 1st level spells that can do this, and will get some value from second level slots are Dissonant Whispers or Thunderwave. Personally, if I'm likely to be casting in this situation I prefer Thunderwave, as it can effect multiple targets, and can push people into unfriendly terrain.