Can't get excited about Wizard for upcoming new character :(

[Schwann145]

So through some fun circumstances in game and some not-so-fun scheduling issues out of game, my Barbarian PC has become evil and no longer part of the party, which opens me up to bring in a new character and the group is lacking any magical support, so I get to thinking I'll break the usual mold a bit and play a Transmuter Wizard who focuses more on the fun and/or thematic spells and less on the "you obv must take X" spells.

But, despite my constant insisting that we don't, my group rolls very high for stats in our games (4d6, reroll all 1s and 2s, do it twice and pick the set you like better).
This leads to *wildly* OP characters (for instance, the Barbarian I was playing had 3 20s by 8th level :O ).

So here's my issue: Polymorphing is basically useless when forms like a T-Rex would be a *downgrade* and 5e offensive polymorphing is basically useless since killing a polymorphed creature resets it to where it was prior to the spell.
I figure maybe I'll play with some summons to supplant my less-combative transmutations but... 5e summons are both few to come by and pretty weak stat-by-stat.

I *really* don't wanna play a blaster, and I'm having trouble getting motivated to do anything else between too-powerful PCs and too-weak spells!

Looking for advice, sympathy, anything ya got, lol.
Thanks!

[KorvinStarmast]

Looking for advice, Are you trying to max out DPR or support and control functions?
Transmuter is a nice kit.

[CTurbo]

If you can't get excited about playing a Wizard, then don't.

Try playing a Bard instead?

Play a full on support Divine Soul Sorcerer?

Have you rolled your stats yet?

[Keltest]

I guess the first question here is, what do you actually want to do with this character? It doesn't necessarily seem like you know, frankly. Do you want to be a force multiplier for your allies? Crowd Control? You are leaning away from blaster you said, so maybe your utility will be for out of combat?

[KorvinStarmast]

Go Shadow Sorcerer.
That dog is kinda fun when it comes on line at level 6.

[patchyman]

With high stats likely, you could play an elf bladedancer as an off-tank and focus on spells that improve your combat skills, with magical utility as an afterthought.

[Eldariel]

Polymorph is 150 temporary HP. Offensive downgrade or not (Giant Ape is often very competitive), defensively it's still godlike. And Haste exists just the same, when it's not the solution. Offensive CC like Hypnotic Pattern, Web, Fear, Slow, etc. is also very useful. Pyrotechnics/Fog Cloud/Silent Image is also great, especially if allies have Alert. Denies enemies targeted spells, attacks are at disadvantage, etc. while your allies can weave in and out. With Silent Image/Minor Illusion allies can even get advantage as they get the free interact action!

Also, offensive Polymorph is great! Just don't damage them. You have plenty of time to throw them in lava, dig a 20' hole with Mold Earth and bury them alive, or drown them (EDIT: cast Sleep to keep them still if necessary - grapple or such also works; 1HP form isn't surviving). They'll die, revert, and die again. Just be creative. If it's undead or such, drown it in holy water, bag of devouring or an ooze instead. Worst case scenario, you remove an opponent for combat and deal with everyone else, then gang up on them.

Also, for Summons, Summon Greater Demon is great! Tons of At-Wills spells from the likes of Babau, Barlgura, Dybbyk, etc. at great physical stats. Even if they break free, they attack the nearest thing explicitly so whatever.


Also, Suggestion/Phantasmal Force/Hideous Laughter/Banishment/etc. never get old. I've been there. With some creativity, it's great.

Want a good specialization to this end? Diviner. Portent is dirty whatever you roll and Expert Divination is a ton of fun as "know everything"-kinda deal.

Overall, no matter enemy HP, an enemy that is disabled is as good as dead. Just work with your team and deal with everyone else first. Diviner disabling anyone is a good way to take down Pit Fiends on level 7 when you score a low Portent.

[Schwann145]

I guess the first question here is, what do you actually want to do with this character? It doesn't necessarily seem like you know, frankly. Do you want to be a force multiplier for your allies? Crowd Control? You are leaning away from blaster you said, so maybe your utility will be for out of combat?

You're not wrong, I'm not entirely sure, lol.
I know I want to be almost entirely utility. We're playing in Wildemount as pirates and this one is just "looking for some adventure" and will be offering the crew his magical talent, and I figure that talent will be mostly in the form of utility and battlefield control elements with very few, if any, outright offensive or defensive spells to his name (more with the Control Water and Levitate, less with the Mage Armor and Fireball).

I was thinking Transmuter to play with the Minor Alchemy ability as kind of a "what he does for a living" - sell impossible sculptures to rich nobles by changing various woods into copper, melting it down into a mold, then letting it reform into something you couldn't just shape or whittle. Stuff like that.
I'm not sold on it tactically, but I like it thematically.

[Spo]

Two words: Shepard Druid.

Hear me out. You get the combat control spells you were looking for; the utility abilities that come with being able to wildshape, and the summons galore you are looking for. Your is controller/off-tank/tank/healer/and DPS. You don't have to play the whole hippie/nature thing. Mine is a drow that learned nature magic because she seeks to control the forces of nature.

[Temperjoke]

Sounds like you want to play a trickster sort of character. Have you considered illusion spells or enchantment spells? Depending on how strict the DM wants to be, you can have a lot of fun in and out of combat with them.

[Eldariel]

You're not wrong, I'm not entirely sure, lol.
I know I want to be almost entirely utility. We're playing in Wildemount as pirates and this one is just "looking for some adventure" and will be offering the crew his magical talent, and I figure that talent will be mostly in the form of utility and battlefield control elements with very few, if any, outright offensive or defensive spells to his name (more with the Control Water and Levitate, less with the Mage Armor and Fireball).

I was thinking Transmuter to play with the Minor Alchemy ability as kind of a "what he does for a living" - sell impossible sculptures to rich nobles by changing various woods into copper, melting it down into a mold, then letting it reform into something you couldn't just shape or whittle. Stuff like that.
I'm not sold on it tactically, but I like it thematically.

Tactically it's way better than you might think. I certainly more often see DMs annoyed by control Wizards than by DPS, by it Hexadin, Hexpally, Nuclear Wizard or a bogstandard Gloom Samurai. No matter enemy HP, they can be brought low by but a single spell (this side of Legendary Resistance, against which you have another set of control toys that simply have no saves). 20s in all stats hardly matter; all it means is that they have a bit more HP and save bonuses. 20 in casting stat on point buy is probably worth more to you than a damage dealer frankly, as you get to take your Alerts, Luckies, Observants, etc. post-haste making you go first and shut down half the enemy before anyone does anything.

You can do so much with just Minor Illusion it's just awesome. One-sided walls, cubes for total cover, etc. totally at will. And it only gets better from there with spell levels. Even simple Treantmonk's Guide level play will suffice. And you can just go up from there with experience and mastery. Never fear: anyone casting top level Wizard spells smart will never be underpowered in any party against any opposition regardless of level.

If you're in Wildemount, Chronurgist is hideously strong and quite fun. I fully recommend it.

[nickl_2000]

You're not wrong, I'm not entirely sure, lol.
I know I want to be almost entirely utility. We're playing in Wildemount as pirates and this one is just "looking for some adventure" and will be offering the crew his magical talent, and I figure that talent will be mostly in the form of utility and battlefield control elements with very few, if any, outright offensive or defensive spells to his name (more with the Control Water and Levitate, less with the Mage Armor and Fireball).

I was thinking Transmuter to play with the Minor Alchemy ability as kind of a "what he does for a living" - sell impossible sculptures to rich nobles by changing various woods into copper, melting it down into a mold, then letting it reform into something you couldn't just shape or whittle. Stuff like that.
I'm not sold on it tactically, but I like it thematically.

I've got to agree with anothers comment in here. If you are looking for utility and battlefield control it is really hard to beat a Druid although I may consider Sea Elf land(coast) myself. Especially since you are going to be spending time on the water. A well placed tsunami can really mess up a DMs encounter and your allies will adore you for water breathing and water walk when their ship turns into driftwood.

[xroads]

Fighter: Crud! The Thief got surrounded and is about to drop!
Cleric: If I heal him they'll still tear him to shreds.
Wizard: Don't worry. Time for Wizard Healing!
Cleric: Wizard Hea..
Wizard: Hey thief, take the form of a T-Rex!
insert sounds of roaring and screaming enemies

That's why polymorph is actually a pretty good spell. It great for when non-fighters or severely wounded fighters who are in a pinch and need to hold out a few more rounds.

Also great for utility. For example, loud clanky fighter going to ruin the stealth mission? Morph her into a panther and watch her suddenly be among the most stealthiest in the party.

[Segev]

Well, I don't know if it's specifically Transmuter you wanted to go with, but what excites me most in 5e is the Illusionist. Here is my thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?477658-Illusionist-Tricks/) on why I think it's so cool, and what you can do with it.

At 8th level, you've got Malleable Illusions and the first dose of major image, which means you can create major image and later change around what it is.

You can also cast hallucinatory terrain and then change what it looks like and even carry it with you. Not as good as mirage arcane, but still gives you a solid feel as an illusionist master of your surroundings.

At 9th level, you'll get creation, which with Malleable Illusions is up to 24 hours of any item you want it to be, so long as it's made of organic material.

11th level, when you can cast permanent major images out of 6th level spell slots, though, is where it really comes home, in my opinion. Now you have permanent major images that you can, any time you can see them, remake into wholly new major images. You can do similarly with programmed illusions.

All of this I mention in that thread, but I felt like gushing about some of my favorite bits, especially around and after the level you indicated you're at.

[xroads]

The way I tend to look at wizard schools, is that they're just icing on the cake. Yummy, but ultimately (and arguably) not that important.

No matter what school you choose, you still have access to all of the other schools of magic. Transmuters, for example, can cast fireball just about as well as any other school.

[Segev]

The way I tend to look at wizard schools, is that they're just icing on the cake. Yummy, but ultimately (and arguably) not that important.

No matter what school you choose, you still have access to all of the other schools of magic. Transmuters, for example, can cast fireball just about as well as any other school.

Some schools, I think, are better-designed to really evoke a style of play than others.

This is a good note, however: even if you went illusionist or diviner, you could still cast polymorph.

And for support, if you aren't as enthused by illusionist as I am, diviner is hard to beat. A halfling diviner who takes the halfling-specific feat that lets him use halfling luck to help his allies, and who also takes lucky, can be the master of everyone's fates.

[Evaar]

You're not wrong, I'm not entirely sure, lol.
I know I want to be almost entirely utility. We're playing in Wildemount as pirates and this one is just "looking for some adventure" and will be offering the crew his magical talent, and I figure that talent will be mostly in the form of utility and battlefield control elements with very few, if any, outright offensive or defensive spells to his name (more with the Control Water and Levitate, less with the Mage Armor and Fireball).

I was thinking Transmuter to play with the Minor Alchemy ability as kind of a "what he does for a living" - sell impossible sculptures to rich nobles by changing various woods into copper, melting it down into a mold, then letting it reform into something you couldn't just shape or whittle. Stuff like that.
I'm not sold on it tactically, but I like it thematically.

Forgive me if this is extremely obvious and you're already familiar with it, but from your comments it sounds like you could benefit from reading this guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IeOXWvbkmQ3nEyM2P3lS8TU4rsK6QJP0oH7HE_v67QY/edit

[Keravath]

1) What wizard characters have you played previously?

You said that the party lacks magical support then you may want to consider some blasty spells in your support arsenal.

2) Starting with one level of knowledge cleric can be pretty good especially when thrown into an OP environment. Medium armor + shield + shield spell tends to help survivability.

3) If everyone likes fighting have you looked at the Arcana cleric build that is in a thread here. Mixes a bit of wizard with a lot of cleric in a really nice wade into melee combination.

4) Wizard schools are flavor on an otherwise decent base. However, if you want to do with something different you could go lore bard or 2 hexblade/lore bard X which gives you competitive damage as well as decent control spells.

If you've never played an evoker wizard it can be fun. It is blasty but you can drop those spells on top of your friends with impunity which really can help hit more targets ... and you are still a wizard with a lot of versatility and wide set of spells to choose from. The problem is choosing.

---

Personally, I like the 2 hexblade/X lore bard because it is great at skills, great at social interactions, great at crowd control, counterspell (if you pick it up as a magical secret), can have fireball if you want (another magical secret) but can fall back on agonizing blast for decent ranged damage that doesn't make you feel useless when you are concentrating on a spell but still want to contribute (I find vicious mockery doesn't cut it). Has good armor and gets the shield spell from hexblade.

Good luck! Hope you find an option you feel like playing!

[Petrocorus]

I *really* don't wanna play a blaster, and I'm having trouble getting motivated to do anything else between too-powerful PCs and too-weak spells!

With your high stats, you could go for a MADder build.

The tanky Iron Mage, for instance. You could try a wizard spy also.



I guess the first question here is, what do you actually want to do with this character? It doesn't necessarily seem like you know, frankly. Do you want to be a force multiplier for your allies? Crowd Control? You are leaning away from blaster you said, so maybe your utility will be for out of combat?
Asking the real question here.


You're not wrong, I'm not entirely sure, lol.
I know I want to be almost entirely utility. We're playing in Wildemount as pirates and this one is just "looking for some adventure" and will be offering the crew his magical talent, and I figure that talent will be mostly in the form of utility and battlefield control elements with very few, if any, outright offensive or defensive spells to his name (more with the Control Water and Levitate, less with the Mage Armor and Fireball).

I was thinking Transmuter to play with the Minor Alchemy ability as kind of a "what he does for a living" - sell impossible sculptures to rich nobles by changing various woods into copper, melting it down into a mold, then letting it reform into something you couldn't just shape or whittle. Stuff like that.
I'm not sold on it tactically, but I like it thematically.
I see your point, but i fear you will get bored of it quite quickly. Because this will only happen in downtimes. And it fits more a sedentary lifestyle.
You don't need the Transmuter subclass to cast transmutation spells.
If you want utility and BFC, almost all subclasses will give you this to some degree.

[Chronos]

Don't forget about utility polymorphs. For instance, if everyone needs to get to the other side of a cliff or to the top of a tall tower or something, polymorph someone into a giant eagle, so they can carry everyone else. If you need a tunnel dug, giant badger. Scouting, some sort of smaller bird. Tracking, a bloodhound. Clear a room quickly without hurting anyone, skunk. The wizard in my group once defeated a Hallucinatory Terrain designed to send the party in circles by turning into a homing pigeon. Even if your party already has bigger numbers, there are a lot of forms that give something that you can't get just from big numbers.