(2E) Quiet Allies/Follow the Expert issues

[T.G. Oskar]

Alright, a little disclaimer - this isn't for a game or anything, but a genuine question regarding the rules.

So, I was making an Elf Ranger as a way to see if I can grok the mechanics of the system a bit better, and I stumbled upon the Quiet Allies skill feat (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=831). Now, upon observation, it seems a pretty decent effect; you make one Stealth check when you're trying to Avoid Notice and you have some of your allies use Follow the Expert (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=524). However, as I was reading it, I stumbled upon a few issues.

The first is on how Follow the Expert is explained...or rather, how vaguely it's explained. So, if I get it straight, Follow the Expert is an action you can do while on Exploration mode, where the ally can't do anything else, and...you do rolls for it? It does mention something about helping allies that have lower scores, but there doesn't seem to be a proper explanation on how it works.

This vagueness is what leads to the second question, or rather, issue about Quiet Allies. The feat specifically mentions that you make one Stealth check, but at the lowest modifier. However, it doesn't mention if it's the skill modifier or the ability score modifier applicable to the skill. If it's the second, then it's a pretty reasonable ability - you make one Stealth check with a minor penalty, but using your better proficiencies. However, if it's the first...then it's basically harmful to the attempt: if someone lacks training in Stealth, then that means you're rolling with no level bonus, which is by far the largest bonus around.

So, genuine question - how does Follow the Expert work? (I'm inclined to think it's either like an Aid action, or an action that can only be done if a feat enables it) And what's the modifier referred to by Quiet Allies - skill modifier or ability score modifier?

[DrMartin]

Follow the Expert on the srd is missing some key pieces of information - namely, how it works mechanically. It allows the ally to add its level to the roll, as well as a scaling bonus based on the expert´s skill level.

[NomGarret]

By making one check at the worst modifier, you’re essentially eliminating the possibility that the paladin makes the check only for the rogue to roll a 1 and trip on a bucket.

[T.G. Oskar]

By making one check at the worst modifier, you’re essentially eliminating the possibility that the paladin makes the check only for the rogue to roll a 1 and trip on a bucket.

Uh...isn't that counterproductive? I mean - sure, you're trading one thing for another, but it all depends on the worst modifier. As mentioned, the SRD doesn't have the rules on Follow the Expert, which leads to a pretty brutal interpretation if ignored.

If the "worst" modifier is just "level + x", where "x" is a bonus that's lower than what the expert would otherwise have (say, instead of "level + 4" for expert, it's "level + 2"), then it's completely reasonable. However, if the "worst" modifier is the same as Untrained (i.e., 0), then it means you're ruining the possibility for everyone. This is the reason why I made the question of how Follow the Expert works - if the difference is less than 10 points, it's much better than a difference of 20+.

However, it's clarified - it's the "worst" modifier based on Follow the Expert, so you'll be mostly making a check based on the character with the worst Dex modifier, but still using Follow the Expert rules. So, it'd be "level + FoE bonus + lowest Dex modifier + bonuses - penalties", which is still much better than nothing. That makes the feat much better than expected. (Wonder why didn't they add that on the SRD, considering they added everything else...)

[Firest Kathon]

The rules are on the PRD (https://2e.aonprd.com/Activities.aspx?ID=4), just in a different place.


[...] You can add your level as a proficiency bonus to the associated skill check, even if you’re untrained. Additionally, you gain a circumstance bonus to your skill check based on your ally’s proficiency (+2 for expert, +3 for master, and +4 for legendary).

[stack]

Haven't looked for some time, but the last discussion I recall was that making a single check, even with the weaker modifier if a lower failure chance than making several checks (one for each person).

[DrMartin]

Would it combo with Assurance, allowing the Ranger to just get a result of 10 + the lower "follow the expert" proficiency bonus, instead of rolling altogether?
Quiet Allies doesn't make overly clear who is doing the rolling for "you and your allies", but I'd allow it.