Increasing the utility of the Remarkable Athlete.

[Yuroch Kern]

Normally, I have a lot of fun with all character types, but my son wanted to know if I could buff the Champion utility a little bit at the table, specifically Remarkable Athlete. The two options I'm mulling over are 1) Also add Advantage on Con saves versus Exhaustion, or 2) alter the Second Wind to heal or remove a level of Exhaustion. A possible third would make another third level feature a choice between Athletics or Acrobatics as a bonus proficiency, and that choice is Expertised at 7th. The second option I feel is okay despite possible spamming between Short Rests, since it's 7th level and a Frenzy Barbarian would need a significant deviation. Thoughts?

[MaxWilson]

I just let it stack with proficiency, which makes it kind of like a half-Expertise. It makes Champions excellent grapplers, who can shove a target prone, grapple it there to keep it prone, and beat on them with advantage while they're stuck attacking you at disadvantage. All fighters can do that of course, but this way Remarkable Athlete had some impact there, as well of course as on initiative, climbing, swimming, etc.

[HappyDaze]

Would it have been imbalanced if it just provided Proficiency in Acrobatics & Athletics or Expertise in one or both of those if the character is already Proficient? It's not like Expertise in two skills is horribly broken at 7th level.

[Yuroch Kern]

I just let it stack with proficiency, which makes it kind of like a half-Expertise. It makes Champions excellent grapplers, who can shove a target prone, grapple it there to keep it prone, and beat on them with advantage while they're stuck attacking you at disadvantage. All fighters can do that of course, but this way Remarkable Athlete had some impact there, as well of course as on initiative, climbing, swimming, etc.

I thought that at first, mind you, but a single Rogue dip or a casual Bard 2 would break bonded accuracy. It's my son's first ever character (YAY!), but there are experienced players mucking about that would leap on an effective x3 proficiency...there are 2 other Champions...

[Yuroch Kern]

Would it have been imbalanced if it just provided Proficiency in Acrobatics & Athletics or Expertise in one or both of those if the character is already Proficient? It's not like Expertise in two skills is horribly broken at 7th level.

Probably not, I may do both skills as a feature, but I don't want to step on the Bards and Rogues too much. It is a half Jack of All Trades, so half an Expertise is good with the jump bonus. I use skills a lot at my table, and my players flex them with roleplaying to good effect. Keeping it a class feature will add a nice exclusive. I might even do it with option one or two...

[Nagog]

Here's a slight variation rule that can make for some ridiculously fun and off the wall build: Removing/ignoring the rule that long jumping uses movement. My friend did the math on a build that uses the increased distance from this feature, Monk's Step of the Wind, and the Jump spell, you could then jump 150 feet with a 10 foot running start. Without a head start, you can jump 75 feet forward.
Lastly: Allow drop kicking as a form of ranged attack.

[Yuroch Kern]

Here's a slight variation rule that can make for some ridiculously fun and off the wall build: Removing/ignoring the rule that long jumping uses movement. My friend did the math on a build that uses the increased distance from this feature, Monk's Step of the Wind, and the Jump spell, you could then jump 150 feet with a 10 foot running start. Without a head start, you can jump 75 feet forward.
Lastly: Allow drop kicking as a form of ranged attack.

Haha! I do use the movement rule, but in increments of use. If you manage to jump 60', with a base move of 30', but you already ruined your double move with a pesky Action for casting Jump in the first place, you end your move 30' in the air...and continue it next round. Kind of a self forced-movement. Falling down 100' isn't instant either: I've decided falling is a 30' forced movement, and will obviously double move as soon as it can. If you dive of a cliff at the start of your turn, that's 30'. next round, terminal velocity is 60'...and you hit on the third turn. Increases tension, chances, and tactics. And yes, I allow Death From Above. Anyone who played any kind of Barbarian should BELIEVE in DFA, in my brutal opinion. A successful Athletics or Acrobatics will reduce damage, prevent prone, or stop/slow your descent if you have a reasonable plan, equipment, and luck...

[Cry Havoc]

Normally, I have a lot of fun with all character types, but my son wanted to know if I could buff the Champion utility a little bit at the table, specifically Remarkable Athlete. The two options I'm mulling over are 1) Also add Advantage on Con saves versus Exhaustion, or 2) alter the Second Wind to heal or remove a level of Exhaustion. A possible third would make another third level feature a choice between Athletics or Acrobatics as a bonus proficiency, and that choice is Expertised at 7th. The second option I feel is okay despite possible spamming between Short Rests, since it's 7th level and a Frenzy Barbarian would need a significant deviation. Thoughts?

I allow it to provide a bonus to all Str, Dex and Con ability checks = to half prof.

[MaxWilson]

I thought that at first, mind you, but a single Rogue dip or a casual Bard 2 would break bonded accuracy. It's my son's first ever character (YAY!), but there are experienced players mucking about that would leap on an effective x3 proficiency...there are 2 other Champions...

Not possible. You can't have more than one multiplier for proficiency. Even if Remarkable Athlete stacks with proficiency, it still doesn't stack with Expertise, no matter whether you're getting it from Rogue 1 or Bard 3 or the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's.

Also you misunderstand bounded accuracy. Bounded accuracy is a DM-side thing about not artificially inflating monster stats and skill DCs. There's no conflict between high player bonuses and bounded accuracy--bounded accuracy ensures that ridiculously high bonuses are redundant and unnecessary, but you've not forbidden from overinvesting in useless things.

Here's a copy of the seminal post on bounded accuracy from 5e's designer Rodney Thompson, explaining what it means:

https://bluishcertainty.blogspot.com/2016/06/bounded-accuracy.html

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I changed remarkable athlete to "juggernaut" which is advantage to strength and Constitution checks.

Worked out fine so far

[Yuroch Kern]

Not possible. You can't have more than one multiplier for proficiency. Even if Remarkable Athlete stacks with proficiency, it still doesn't stack with Expertise, no matter whether you're getting it from Rogue 1 or Bard 3 or the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's.

Also you misunderstand bounded accuracy. Bounded accuracy is a DM-side thing about not artificially inflating monster stats and skill DCs. There's no conflict between high player bonuses and bounded accuracy--bounded accuracy ensures that ridiculously high bonuses are redundant and unnecessary, but you've not forbidden from overinvesting in useless things.

Here's a copy of the seminal post on bounded accuracy from 5e's designer Rodney Thompson, explaining what it means:

https://bluishcertainty.blogspot.com/2016/06/bounded-accuracy.html

That was an interesting read, and is in line with my views. I misunderstood it when you said to just let it stack on proficiency, as a straight bonus. That wording suggested it would become a mere derived number, not a "proficiency" bonus, hence still stackable to a canny interpreter. When RA is acquired, Expertise would kick in, and then the RA bonus for non-proficient rolls. Yes?

[Yuroch Kern]

I allow it to provide a bonus to all Str, Dex and Con ability checks = to half prof.

Bonded Accuracy was perhaps the wrong phrase, as MaxWilson pointed out. Are you saying it would be on top of existing proficiency/Expertise? That seems too much a bonus if true.

[Yuroch Kern]

I changed remarkable athlete to "juggernaut" which is advantage to strength and Constitution checks.

Worked out fine so far

It's sorta weird, but the examples given in the PHB for Con checks, if you look them up, are generally saving throws. Resisting fatigue is basically Forced March, one can easily argue alcohol is a weak Poison, all hazardous temperature environment rolls are saves...

Did you replace the bonus or add the advantage? Admittedly, I would prefer leaving the blatant Strength advantage to the Barbarians, which is why I was considering an augment to the Con saves for a specific hazard. Or adding the option of Exhaustion removal to the Second Wind, which would definitely be well named at that point.

Everyone's suggestions are worthy of consideration, I am just trying to be clear on wording for official rulings at the table.

[thoroughlyS]

I second the notion of granting double proficiency with one Strength or Dexterity-based skill. As noted above, it lets a champion be a grappler, or become sneakier, or even pick up card tricks if that's what they're into. It also keeps to the design paradigm that the champion is simple.

[Yuroch Kern]

Ah, you think an Expertise pick should be any skill covered by RA? Might be a thought. What are your thoughts about the other things I have mentioned?

[Damon_Tor]

I thought that at first, mind you, but a single Rogue dip or a casual Bard 2 would break bonded accuracy. It's my son's first ever character (YAY!), but there are experienced players mucking about that would leap on an effective x3 proficiency...there are 2 other Champions...

So just have it explicitly give expertise.

If it gave expertise on checks you're already proficient in and proficiency in checks you aren't there wouldn't be any issue with it stacking with expertise from other sources.

[Yuroch Kern]

So just have it explicitly give expertise.

If it gave expertise on checks you're already proficient in and proficiency in checks you aren't there wouldn't be any issue with it stacking with expertise from other sources.

I am seeing a trend here that an improvement to the skill set on RA would fix it and be fine. Mind you all, I was comparing the 7th level gains to the other Archetypes of fighter, and it needed to compare to the EK gaining a spell, 2nd level spell slots, and War Magic, with the BM gaining another 2 maneuvers and a Superiority die along with...Know thy Enemy...hmmm...

[NorthernPhoenix]

I'd have to agree that having it just give expertise in both athletics and acrobatics is a great upgrade that brings the ability up while in no way being "overpowered".

[Yuroch Kern]

So far, it really seems that the third option is the best. Tweaked around, I pose the house rule:

Improved Critical-Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.

Physical Specimen-Also at 3rd, the Champion gains Athletics and Acrobatics as bonus proficiencies.

Remarkable Athlete-Starting at 7th level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (rounded up) to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus. You also gain Expertise in Athletics and Acrobatics.

In addition, when you make any jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feet equal to half your base.

[Damon_Tor]

Maybe something like "whenever you would add either your strength or dexterity modifier to the result of an ability check, add them both instead."

[JNAProductions]

Maybe something like "whenever you would add either your strength or dexterity modifier to the result of an ability check, add them both instead."

MAD is generally not a positive feature.

[Yuroch Kern]

Maybe something like "whenever you would add either your strength or dexterity modifier to the result of an ability check, add them both instead."


MAD is generally not a positive feature.

MAD is a glorious thing if you have the stats to back it up, which is the main issue with it. Also, dual stat bonuses could mess with some tables if you added proficiency/Expertise. Are you implying the ability to swap the stats like some kind of..."Finesse" ability?

[Segev]

I thought that at first, mind you, but a single Rogue dip or a casual Bard 2 would break bonded accuracy. It's my son's first ever character (YAY!), but there are experienced players mucking about that would leap on an effective x3 proficiency...there are 2 other Champions...

"This does not stack with other abilities that add proficiency more than once, such as Expertise."

[Yuroch Kern]

"This does not stack with other abilities that add proficiency more than once, such as Expertise."

Ah yes, I had a misunderstanding and addressed it in like the 11th post. I did mull over making it an unnamed bonus derived from proficiency, but decided it would make too much math and possibly too big an overall bonus.

[Segev]

Ah yes, I had a misunderstanding and addressed it in like the 11th post. I did mull over making it an unnamed bonus derived from proficiency, but decided it would make too much math and possibly too big an overall bonus.

I was just making a suggestion on how to do the "add it to all like a cheap jack of all trades + expertise" without getting 1.5x expertise out of it.

[djreynolds]

A fighter might lack social skills.

A champion should be like meeting a pro athlete.

What if remarkable athlete added your strength or dex modifier to all your charisma checks.

[Nifft]

A fighter might lack social skills.

A champion should be like meeting a pro athlete.

Endorsements: Starting at level 3, a Champion gets free money. The rate of free money increases as the Champion levels up.

[MaxWilson]

"This does not stack with other abilities that add proficiency more than once, such as Expertise."

Technically not needed, since it's built into the proficiency rules that you can't multiply proficiency more than once. But I agree that it's best to be explicit, for clarity.

Proficiency bonus

Characters have a proficiency bonus determined by level. Monsters also have this bonus, which is incorporated in their stat blocks. The bonus is used in the rules on ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls. Your proficiency bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your proficiency bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add the bonus only once when you make the save. Occasionally, your proficiency bonus might be multiplied or divided (doubled or halved, for example) before you apply it. For example, the rogue’s Expertise feature doubles the proficiency bonus for certain ability checks. If a circumstance suggests that your proficiency bonus applies more than once to the same roll, you still add it only once and multiply or divide it only once. By the same token, if a feature or effect allows you to multiply your proficiency bonus when making an ability check that wouldn’t normally benefit from your proficiency bonus, you still don’t add the bonus to the check. For that check your proficiency bonus is 0, given the fact that multiplying 0 by any number is still 0. For instance, if you lack proficiency in the History skill, you gain no benefit from a feature that lets you double your proficiency bonus when you make Intelligence (History) checks. In general, you don’t multiply your proficiency bonus for attack rolls or saving throws. If a feature or effect allows you to do so, these same rules apply.

Online ref: https://www.5esrd.com/using-ability-scores

===========================================


MAD is generally not a positive feature.

Yeah, that's why Bladesong is underpowered.

There's a difference between getting extra benefits out of multiple high attributes, vs. needing multiple high attributes in order to function. If Damon_Tor's rule results in Champions that look something like Str 14 Dex 20 instead of Str 8 Dex 20, to my mind that's a good thing.

It's an interesting rule variant in a way kind of similar to Barbarian Unarmored Defense: not something that every Barbarian uses, but it does open up some design space for those who want to invest heavily in Dex + Con as well as Str.

[NorthernPhoenix]

A fighter might lack social skills.

A champion should be like meeting a pro athlete.

What if remarkable athlete added your strength or dex modifier to all your charisma checks.

I think you could reasonably make the case for remarkable athlete adding expertise for Athletics, Acrobatics and Performance, certainly. Plays into the whole "gladiator champion" theme.

[Yuroch Kern]

I think you could reasonably make the case for remarkable athlete adding expertise for Athletics, Acrobatics and Performance, certainly. Plays into the whole "gladiator champion" theme.

Heh, it really does appear that the Champion is regarded as the real skill monkey of the fighters. Doesn't do weird, extra normal things, but does normal things better all the time. I can see a BM tripping with a maneuver, but the Champion doesn't need to worry about missing as much. The EK blocks with a Shield, the Champion never bothers to consider it and has a reaction attack instead. It's like fixing Remarkable Athlete is the right and good thing to bring up. Thank you everyone!

[MaxWilson]

Heh, it really does appear that the Champion is regarded as the real skill monkey of the fighters. Doesn't do weird, extra normal things, but does normal things better all the time. I can see a BM tripping with a maneuver, but the Champion doesn't need to worry about missing as much. The EK blocks with a Shield, the Champion never bothers to consider it and has a reaction attack instead. It's like fixing Remarkable Athlete is the right and good thing to bring up. Thank you everyone!

Do note that some normal things work off of attack rolls instead of skill contests (e.g. DMG Disarm), and Remarkable Athlete doesn't help with those. You might want to consider changing that.

[Yuroch Kern]

Do note that some normal things work off of attack rolls instead of skill contests (e.g. DMG Disarm), and Remarkable Athlete doesn't help with those. You might want to consider changing that.

As far as the ones that require an attack, Disarm and Mark being the only two I have found, there is perhaps no way to blatantly increase success outside advantage without inventing a whole new Fighting Style, which would not necessarily benefit just the Champion. But Disarm is resisted by skill checks, so the Champion will now have the best chance to maintain his grip.

[Zalabim]

Especially with the Samurai around, it really feels alright for Remarkable Athlete to add proficiency in Dexterity Saving Throws.

[Yuroch Kern]

Especially with the Samurai around, it really feels alright for Remarkable Athlete to add proficiency in Dexterity Saving Throws.

That could be an addition to the 10th level ability. It would complement Indomitable well. Having full proficiency in all physical saves at 7th is a little over the top, and wouldn't bring as much utility as Expertise. But 10th level with a Resilient Wisdom feat pick would be just the right time for EXTREME ATHLETICISM!

[djreynolds]

Endorsements: Starting at level 3, a Champion gets free money. The rate of free money increases as the Champion levels up.


I think you could reasonably make the case for remarkable athlete adding expertise for Athletics, Acrobatics and Performance, certainly. Plays into the whole "gladiator champion" theme.

I've read Michael Jordan was an intimidating player.

I feel champions should be able to use physical abilities to enhance their mental game.

It shouldn't come off as barbarian using strength in place of charisma... but rather the addition of the champions raw physical prowess.

How about if you score a critical hit, until your next rest you add your dex or strength to your next charisma check.

Imaginr a batter who just hit a walk off home run who trots the bases. Or a pitcher who just struck someone out. They exude this mojo.

[Yuroch Kern]

I've read Michael Jordan was an intimidating player.

I feel champions should be able to use physical abilities to enhance their mental game.

It shouldn't come off as barbarian using strength in place of charisma... but rather the addition of the champions raw physical prowess.

How about if you score a critical hit, until your next rest you add your dex or strength to your next charisma check.

Imaginr a batter who just hit a walk off home run who trots the bases. Or a pitcher who just struck someone out. They exude this mojo.

Huh. I think ya'll are starting a discussion about a viable new Fighter archetype...

[Yuroch Kern]

Especially with the Samurai around, it really feels alright for Remarkable Athlete to add proficiency in Dexterity Saving Throws.

I jut looked at Samurai...interesting, and it also has reinforced my thoughts on improving RA. A relatively powerful ability with a skill bonus at 3rd, and another skill bonus with an important Saving Throw proficiency...yeah, I like my tweak. 10th is brutal as hell, and probably will prompt me to add that Save to the 10th level Champion too.

[Nifft]

Huh. I think ya'll are starting a discussion about a viable new Fighter archetype...

Sword Star?
Axe Face?
Pole Personality?

... or just Gladiator.


... and then the Rogue wants in on the action, and we get a bloody Knife Idol.

[Yuroch Kern]

Sword Star?
Axe Face?
Pole Personality?

... or just Gladiator.


... and then the Rogue wants in on the action, and we get a bloody Knife Idol.

The Bard will be your agent for 20% and promotional fees. :smallcool:

[Stattick]

How about:

Reliable Athelete
By 7th level, you have refined your athletic skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make a Strength or Dexterity ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

[Yuroch Kern]

How about:

Reliable Athelete
By 7th level, you have refined your athletic skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make a Strength or Dexterity ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

Ah, sooner than a rogue, but MUCH narrower. It would imply at a base level that to get maximum use out of this, the four skills that are effected are chosen, well Sleight of Hand could be skipped for a little room...

You would miss out on the initiative and Con check bonus, and does it include the mediocre jump bonus?

[Segev]

A thought: how many fighters are both Strength and Dex-focused? And how many have whichever is not their focus as their secondary rather than tertiary stat?

I ask, because I wonder if simply allowing them to use Strength in place of Dexterity and/or vice-versa, at their will, when performing Ability checks would be viable.

Or even just saying, "When making a Strength or Dexterity check, you may add both your Strength and Dexterity modifiers to the check, if you wish." Stacks with proficiency, makes it so that if you're focused heavily on one it replaces the other, and rewards MAD-focus. The "if you wish" is in case you're a Strength-fighter who dumped Dexterity or a Dex-fighter who dumped Str, so you aren't penalized by HAVING to add a negative to something you were already good at. Still penalizes the dumped stat; a kobold Champion with a 7 Strength still has the -2 from his Strength even though he's also adding the +3 from his Dexterity now.

[Yuroch Kern]

A thought: how many fighters are both Strength and Dex-focused? And how many have whichever is not their focus as their secondary rather than tertiary stat?

I ask, because I wonder if simply allowing them to use Strength in place of Dexterity and/or vice-versa, at their will, when performing Ability checks would be viable.

Or even just saying, "When making a Strength or Dexterity check, you may add both your Strength and Dexterity modifiers to the check, if you wish." Stacks with proficiency, makes it so that if you're focused heavily on one it replaces the other, and rewards MAD-focus. The "if you wish" is in case you're a Strength-fighter who dumped Dexterity or a Dex-fighter who dumped Str, so you aren't penalized by HAVING to add a negative to something you were already good at. Still penalizes the dumped stat; a kobold Champion with a 7 Strength still has the -2 from his Strength even though he's also adding the +3 from his Dexterity now.

I've seen whole rambling threads on which is more useless, Str or Dex, and this would solve it easily for that purpose. Not sure how you could justify powerful Str for stealth, but it's not exactly a heavily draconian system.

Still, I feel that outside very specific magic and abilities, having an ability that increases a bonus beyond stat plus Expertise is a little much in a system that tries to keep it to low numbers and math. Perhaps it is my bias, since I use skills a lot in my game and have developed levels of success and failure that warrant keeping it at that level. As far as having a "Finesse Skills", I would do Str and Con as swappable, Dex already having so much attached to it. Also, I find my players, even my son with his very first character, prioritize all three physical stats, dumping Int and Chr first, for their Champions. As it is written, it is difficult to do anything else with them, I admit. I still love them so...

[Nifft]

Not sure how you could justify powerful Str for stealth

The guard sees you, but you make eye contact and flex at him, and he stands there frozen in a cold sweat not ringing the alarm bell.

[Segev]

I've seen whole rambling threads on which is more useless, Str or Dex, and this would solve it easily for that purpose. Not sure how you could justify powerful Str for stealth, but it's not exactly a heavily draconian system.

Still, I feel that outside very specific magic and abilities, having an ability that increases a bonus beyond stat plus Expertise is a little much in a system that tries to keep it to low numbers and math. Perhaps it is my bias, since I use skills a lot in my game and have developed levels of success and failure that warrant keeping it at that level. As far as having a "Finesse Skills", I would do Str and Con as swappable, Dex already having so much attached to it. Also, I find my players, even my son with his very first character, prioritize all three physical stats, dumping Int and Chr first, for their Champions. As it is written, it is difficult to do anything else with them, I admit. I still love them so...To be clear, my proposal would be to replace Remarkable Athlete's ability-roll mechanics with this. Not to add them.


The guard sees you, but you make eye contact and flex at him, and he stands there frozen in a cold sweat not ringing the alarm bell.Leaping up with the strength and control to precisely grab the lip of the windowsill just before the guard walks around the corner. The strength to press both hands and both feet against the opposing walls as the crowd walks beneath you.

Even just, "Grace is as much about the strength to move yourself easily as it is the delicate precision of fine motion." So the justification for adding both is that both play a role in just about anything either is called on for, and the Champion has so trained his body that he can exploit one to bolster the other. That delicate sleight of hand? His muscle control is that good. That power-lifting stunt? He has perfect form. Etc.

[Yuroch Kern]

The guard sees you, but you make eye contact and flex at him, and he stands there frozen in a cold sweat not ringing the alarm bell.

Haha! Yes, the Barbarian Stealth in action! I do use Strength as as a replacement sometimes for Intimidation..."You see NOTHING fragile man!" "Yessir, Mr. Figment of my imagination, Sir!"

[Yuroch Kern]

To be clear, my proposal would be to replace Remarkable Athlete's ability-roll mechanics with this. Not to add them.

Leaping up with the strength and control to precisely grab the lip of the windowsill just before the guard walks around the corner. The strength to press both hands and both feet against the opposing walls as the crowd walks beneath you.

Even just, "Grace is as much about the strength to move yourself easily as it is the delicate precision of fine motion." So the justification for adding both is that both play a role in just about anything either is called on for, and the Champion has so trained his body that he can exploit one to bolster the other. That delicate sleight of hand? His muscle control is that good. That power-lifting stunt? He has perfect form. Etc.

Alrighty, then you propose the best of two abilities for a check, but Expertise would remain the sole province of Bards and Rogues, with Initiative and Con check bonus to Bards. As far as your example, it is a creative use of Athletics (and the jump bonus) to create cover, which would then allow a well-toned Stealth check. Also, to use your mod, it was sheer brutality that used Str, not Dex, for initiative. Interesting, it will go in the list.

[Yuroch Kern]

I ran a few scenarios, since I have time for it...

The ability swap real only benefit is all but negating either Str or Dex as an Ability, or gaining a mere +1 or 2 to 4 skills, initiative, and some DM arbitrary checks. And it is completely useless if the stats are the same bonus. As a seventh level ability, it takes surviving 6 levels of dumping one of the two stats and cranking the other for any meaningful gain, and just puts the overall bonus at stat plus proficiency. You could build it fairly easily, but you would then also either have a crappy Carry Weight and jump or a crappy AC out of heavy armor, a suffering Str or Dex save, and the wait until 7th level for it to all matter. Are you still including the original RA bonuses? Thoughts?

[Yakk]

You add 1/2 of your proficiency bonus to all Str, Dex and Con checks you don't already add proficiency to. Your jumping distance is increased by your Strength(Athletics) bonus in feet. If you have proficiency in Althletics or Acrobatics, you add twice your proficiency bonus whennyou make an ability check with them.

Other than savingna 1 level Rogue dip on wrastler builds, that shouldn't cause a problem.

Getting 2 expertise is pretty strong, but typically acrobatics and althletics end up with overlapping usage under many DMs. And this only grants it if you burn a skill on it.

[Yuroch Kern]

You add 1/2 of your proficiency bonus to all Str, Dex and Con checks you don't already add proficiency to. Your jumping distance is increased by your Strength(Athletics) bonus in feet. If you have proficiency in Althletics or Acrobatics, you add twice your proficiency bonus whennyou make an ability check with them.

Other than savingna 1 level Rogue dip on wrastler builds, that shouldn't cause a problem.

Getting 2 expertise is pretty strong, but typically acrobatics and althletics end up with overlapping usage under many DMs. And this only grants it if you burn a skill on it.

This is the feeling I get with this fix. I went for broke and added Athletics and Acrobatics as bonus proficiencies at 3rd. It would make skill monkey dips more attractive and offer slightly more depending on the table. Unless you blow a Feat, most Fighter builds aren't gonna have more than 5 skills ever.

[Yuroch Kern]

Thank you for all the feedback and ideas! I believe I have the fix. I'm also making sure that the young ones at the table also understand what homebrew is, and to always ask if there are such things at other tables. Gonna start attaching the errata list to the wall evry session. Like rules for Acid Splash and True Strike, lol.