Trying to Add Animate Dead to the Druid List

[Zombulian]

Hey all, so ever since I learned that the Sidhe Scholar druid variant doesn’t have any issues with undead, I’ve been trying to figure out how to get Animate Dead onto such a character’s spell list. Preferably with as few dips/prc’s as possible and hopefully achievable by level 7.
An important note is that this addition to the spell list need not be permanent. I’m trying to work with the Enchant Staff feat so the character can carry a shillelagh that allows them to use Animate Dead as an SLA, and the feat only requires that you be able to cast the spell when you do the ritual on the staff.

I have a few ideas:
-Domain Draught for the Death or Undead domain. The main snag in this is that while it would grant the domain power, the wording seems to be that the draught only allows access to the spells if they’re being prepared in domain slots.
-Contemplative dip. This works just fine, but it’s a little higher level than I’d prefer.
-Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment. The fact that you need to go to the planar touchstone recharge location for this to work is a bit too restrictive.
-Magical Training/Wizard Dip + Alternate Source Spell or Southern Magician + Arcane Disciple. This route is a bit feat intensive.

Any ideas?

[Emperor Tippy]

If being feat intensive is your only concern, just pay a Psion for a Psychic Reformation after the fact; that lets you switch the feats out.

[Silva Stormrage]

UMD with a Runestaff with the spell would also work.

Get any of the assorted spells for a single large bonus to skill checks to make sure you auto pass the check.

[Zombulian]

If being feat intensive is your only concern, just pay a Psion for a Psychic Reformation after the fact; that lets you switch the feats out.

Ah yeah Psychic Reformation saves the day once again. I’ll note it but it’s unlikely I’ll have a chance to find a wandering Psion for that.


UMD with a Runestaff with the spell would also work.

Get any of the assorted spells for a single large bonus to skill checks to make sure you auto pass the check.

Ohh I like that. UMD to pretend you’re an arcane caster?

[Nifft]

Ohh I like that. UMD to pretend you’re an arcane caster?

One core rules example of UMD is a Rogue emulating Turn Undead to gain a virtual Turn Undead attempt which gets channeled into an item.

Thus, for a runestaff, you'd use UMD to emulate having arcane spell slots -- this almost turns the runestaff into an Eternal Wand (you still pay for XP and such), which is nice if you don't want to spend your own spell slots for that day.

[Troacctid]

One core rules example of UMD is a Rogue emulating Turn Undead to gain a virtual Turn Undead attempt which gets channeled into an item.

Thus, for a runestaff, you'd use UMD to emulate having arcane spell slots -- this almost turns the runestaff into an Eternal Wand (you still pay for XP and such), which is nice if you don't want to spend your own spell slots for that day.
The biggest problem with doing this for a runestaff is that this application of UMD only works for the item's activation, i.e. the casting of the spell itself. But you can't activate a runestaff at all until you attune to it, and you can't attune to it without the ability to cast arcane spells.

[Nifft]

The biggest problem with doing this for a runestaff is that this application of UMD only works for the item's activation, i.e. the casting of the spell itself. But you can't activate a runestaff at all until you attune to it, and you can't attune to it without the ability to cast arcane spells.

Many rules in the UMD section refer to using items, and the skill doesn't seem limited to activating items.

One example usage of UMD is emulating an Evil alignment to pick up the Book of Vile Darkness without suffering harm.

I don't think the skill is as limited as its one-line summary might imply.

[Vizzerdrix]

The biggest problem with doing this for a runestaff is that this application of UMD only works for the item's activation, i.e. the casting of the spell itself. But you can't activate a runestaff at all until you attune to it, and you can't attune to it without the ability to cast arcane spells.

Aint their a feat that gives a few arcane cantrips? Maybe combine it with umd and the runestaff

[Troacctid]

Many rules in the UMD section refer to using items, and the skill doesn't seem limited to activating items.

One example usage of UMD is emulating an Evil alignment to pick up the Book of Vile Darkness without suffering harm.

I don't think the skill is as limited as its one-line summary might imply.
Look at the specific uses of the skill. Alignment and race can be used for any application of the item (e.g. an evil creature carrying a holy weapon or a human using a heartstone). Class feature is limited to activation only. It's the same reason why you can't use UMD for relic powers.

[Nifft]

Look at the specific uses of the skill. Alignment and race can be used for any application of the item (e.g. an evil creature carrying a holy weapon or a human using a heartstone). Class feature is limited to activation only. It's the same reason why you can't use UMD for relic powers.

It looks like you must emulate class features twice in order to activate the item -- once to attune, and then again each time you want to fake-cast.

There's precedent in using UMD to emulate an ability score, race, or alignment before you can use UMD to activate an item.

Rules Compendium says this:


If you’re using the check to emulate an alignment or some other quality in an ongoing manner, you need to make the relevant Use Magic Device check once per hour.

... so I guess maintaining attunement would require hourly check-ins.

Not optimal, but not that bad either.

[ShurikVch]

-Contemplative dip. This works just fine, but it’s a little higher level than I’d prefer.
How about the Divine Disciple (Player's Guide to Faerûn) or Divine Agent (Manual of the Planes)?

[Troacctid]

It looks like you must emulate class features twice in order to activate the item -- once to attune, and then again each time you want to fake-cast.

There's precedent in using UMD to emulate an ability score, race, or alignment before you can use UMD to activate an item.

Rules Compendium says this:

... so I guess maintaining attunement would require hourly check-ins.

Not optimal, but not that bad either.
The text specifically says it only lets you activate the item as if you had the class feature. It's a different wording from emulating alignment. Some uses of UMD can be used the way you describe, but not all.

[Nifft]

The text specifically says it only lets you activate the item as if you had the class feature. It's a different wording from emulating alignment. Some uses of UMD can be used the way you describe, but not all.

The text says that sometimes you need to emulate a class feature in order to activate an item, and that you can't use the class feature even if you are allowed to "use" the class feature to activate the item.

I'd argue that attuning the item is a way to "use" the item, and therefore UMD would be relevant.


But honestly, a Runestaff is probably not the best answer for this Druid, so I'm going to stop discussing it in this thread.

[radthemad4]

Extra Spell? Though if you want more than Animate Dead, you could go for Divine Oracle (minimum level 6 entry) and then UMD a wand of or pilfer Substitute Domain some other way (e.g. extra spell) to swap out the Oracle Domain for a domain that has Animate Dead.

[Zombulian]

Aint their a feat that gives a few arcane cantrips? Maybe combine it with umd and the runestaff

Yeah Magical Training (Wizard) gives you the ability to prepare arcane spells so that with UMD and the Runestaff should probably work. Getting UMD is a separate hurdle for a Druid though...


How about the Divine Disciple (Player's Guide to Faerûn) or Divine Agent (Manual of the Planes)?

I considered Divine Agent but the lost caster level turned me off. Divine Disciple is nice though and you can qualify really easily because Druids get diplomacy for whatever reason. Also you enter at the same level that you’d be able to use Enchant Staff on Animate Dead so that’s nice.


Extra Spell? Though if you want more than Animate Dead, you could go for Divine Oracle (minimum level 6 entry) and then UMD a wand of or pilfer Substitute Domain some other way (e.g. extra spell) to swap out the Oracle Domain for a domain that has Animate Dead.

I considered Extra Spell but it seems a bit contentious if you can actually add spells off-list.
I really like the Divine Oracle PrC so I’m surprised I didn’t think of that! If Sidhe Scholars got Skill Focus (Know: Rel) instead of Skill Focus (Know: Arcana) it’d be even more attractive.
I wonder if you could argue that Sidhe Scholar having access to the Evil domain spells could be used for Substitute Domain...

[radthemad4]

Oh, as for getting UMD as a class skill, there's the Apprentice Feat (Spellcaster) from DMG 2, or being an Arcane Gnome (Dragon 291)

[Zombulian]

Oh, as for getting UMD as a class skill, there's the Apprentice Feat (Spellcaster) from DMG 2, or being an Arcane Gnome (Dragon 291)

Yeah I’m familiar. Also considering Cosmopolitan or Shape Soulmeld (Mage’s Spectacles).

[Nifft]

If Dragon Magazine is legal, there's a feat for a Druid who embraces chaos (thus probably limited to CN but ask your DM) -- it's Flexible Mind [Anarchic] from issue #326, p80. Pick any two skills in which you have at least one rank, and those two skills become class skills for every class going forward (and you get an untyped +1 to checks involving those skills).

So spend two points on one rank of UMD, and another two on a rank of something else, like Tumble or Autohypnosis, and then take the Flexible Mind feat.

If your DM is especially lenient, you might be able to take the Flexible Mind feat after spending 2 points for 1 rank at level 1, but before allocating all of your skill points -- which would allow you to spend 4 points at level 1 for 3 ranks, or 5 points at level 1 for 4 ranks. Otherwise, you'll be behind max ranks at level 1 -- but that's still not too bad, for paying just one feat and one extra skill point.

[Zombulian]

If Dragon Magazine is legal, there's a feat for a Druid who embraces chaos (thus probably limited to CN but ask your DM) -- it's Flexible Mind [Anarchic] from issue #326, p80. Pick any two skills in which you have at least one rank, and those two skills become class skills for every class going forward (and you get an untyped +1 to checks involving those skills).

So spend two points on one rank of UMD, and another two on a rank of something else, like Tumble or Autohypnosis, and then take the Flexible Mind feat.

If your DM is especially lenient, you might be able to take the Flexible Mind feat after spending 2 points for 1 rank at level 1, but before allocating all of your skill points -- which would allow you to spend 4 points at level 1 for 3 ranks, or 5 points at level 1 for 4 ranks. Otherwise, you'll be behind max ranks at level 1 -- but that's still not too bad, for paying just one feat and one extra skill point.

Ohhh now that is some grade-A stuff right there. Matches fluff well too since this is a Fey focused druid so CN was the likely alignment. Wait, does CN disqualify you from casting Animate Dead?

[Nifft]

Ohhh now that is some grade-A stuff right there. Matches fluff well too since this is a Fey focused druid so CN was the likely alignment. Wait, does CN disqualify you from casting Animate Dead?

It shouldn't, since you're using UMD to cast an off-list Arcane spell, but if your DM decides otherwise you can just use UMD to emulate alignment.

[Segev]

You could build an Arcane Hierophant. Wizard/Druid theurge class. It's very much an intensive build, but it works reasonably well, with good casting on both sides and the ability to combine the benefits of a familiar and an animal companion. Gets you animate dead when you get 4th level wizard spells. Precocious Apprentice can help with early entry, potentially.

[Zombulian]

You could build an Arcane Hierophant. Wizard/Druid theurge class. It's very much an intensive build, but it works reasonably well, with good casting on both sides and the ability to combine the benefits of a familiar and an animal companion. Gets you animate dead when you get 4th level wizard spells. Precocious Apprentice can help with early entry, potentially.

Don’t get me wrong, I love theurges, but I’m not trying to go that route with this guy.

[Troacctid]

If you have UMD, you could also use a regular staff instead of a runestaff. Staff of skulls (CAr) is 39,200 gp and only costs 1 charge to use animate dead. (The other spells are cure light wounds, inflict light wounds, and mass inflict light wounds.) No extra cost for materials. I think that's the cheapest one that's available as a standard option.

[Zombulian]

If you have UMD, you could also use a regular staff instead of a runestaff. Staff of skulls (CAr) is 39,200 gp and only costs 1 charge to use animate dead. (The other spells are cure light wounds, inflict light wounds, and mass inflict light wounds.) No extra cost for materials. I think that's the cheapest one that's available as a standard option.

Would that allow you to pretend to be able to cast it for the purposes of the enchant staff feat? Because that’s my goal here.

[Nifft]

Would that allow you to pretend to be able to cast it for the purposes of the enchant staff feat? Because that’s my goal here.

IIRC you can collaborate on magic item creation, with another person or with a magic item. Using an item expends 1 use (=1 charge in this case), paid each day of the item's creation.