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bbugg
2007-10-25, 02:00 PM
I think I've discovered a flaw in the RAW workings of Ride-by Attack...

For a charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge), "you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent."

Ride-by Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rideByAttack) allows you to move again after completing a charge "continuing the straight line of the charge".

Now, if it's just you and the opponent on open ground, the closest space from which you can attack is always in a straight line towards the opponent. Thus, in order to continue in that line with Ride-by Attack, you must trample or overrun or something like that.

If, however, someone or something is in that closest space, you can move to another space that may allow you to continue in a straight line, but that would be very lucky indeed.

Surely this isn't the desired working of the feat - it forces you to run into your opponent unless there's an obstacle blocking you. I'll let my players do the obvious and charge to the side of the opponent, but shouldn't the rules explicitly make this exception?

bbugg
2007-10-25, 02:02 PM
Funny - see my player's related thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61157).
Not solely to avoid this problem of course...

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-10-25, 02:05 PM
Now, if it's just you and the opponent on open ground, the closest space from which you can attack is always in a straight line towards the opponent. Thus, in order to continue in that line with Ride-by Attack, you must trample or overrun or something like that.

No, you can continue your straight line past your opponent if you start a little to the side.



T
xx-----------------------------------
xx-----------------------------------


T: Target

X: Your position

-: charge path


If, however, someone or something is in that closest space, you can move to another space that may allow you to continue in a straight line, but that would be very lucky indeed.


In that case you cannot charge, so it is not lucky at all.


... (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) ...


Furthermore, you cannot overrun or trample on a charge since that requires a standard action.

Person_Man
2007-10-25, 02:11 PM
This is a well known issue.

There are several ways of dealing with it:

House Rule #1: Someone using Ride By Attack can charge through a space next to the enemy, instead of just the closest available space.

House Rule #2: Allow a Charging mount using Ride By Attack to make an Overrun attack, which normally requires a Standard Action (another retarded rule). This is what my group uses, because it makes the Trample feat worthwhile.

No House Rule: If you and your Mount don't kill the enemy on your charge attack, you stop dead in your tracks after your attack. Or you have to be perfectly situated, as Silvanos points out.

bbugg
2007-10-25, 02:13 PM
In that case you cannot charge, so it is not lucky at all.

hmmm... if I'd continued to read my own link, I guess I would have noticed that, huh?

I'm still not sure I like that alignment of the charge though. It only works because of the course grid resolution in D&D - if you were to draw a straight line from you to the opponent in your example (NOT following the grid), you would run straight into the opponent. I feel like it's a resolution error that allows you to miss them, and surely the feat isn't ONLY applicable in cases where the lack of grid resolution influences play...

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-10-25, 02:18 PM
hmmm... if I'd continued to read my own link, I guess I would have noticed that, huh?

I'm still not sure I like that alignment of the charge though. It only works because of the course grid resolution in D&D - if you were to draw a straight line from you to the opponent in your example (NOT following the grid), you would run straight into the opponent. I feel like it's a resolution error that allows you to miss them, and surely the feat isn't ONLY applicable in cases where the lack of grid resolution influences play...

Nahh, you could be flying at a height just above the target and it would work. :smalltongue:

As Person_Man said, it needs house ruling to work properly.


Here is the FAQ on the subject:


With the rules erratum that prohibits overruns as part
of a charge, the Ride-By Attack feat is now nearly useless.
You must use the charge action to use the Ride-By Attack
feat, and that requires you to travel in a straight line
toward your target. Using the example in the Player’s
Handbook, this would appear to rather specifically mean
along a line from your entire square (or squares if riding a
horse or other mount with a space of 10 feet or greater), to
the target square. Ride-By Attack allows you to continue
moving along the straight line of the charge after your
attack. This would have to mean that at some point you
would enter the square (or squares) of the creature you
attacked. (At least I cannot conceive of any other way it
could be done). Since you cannot enter your foe’s space
unless the creature is already dead, Ride-By Attack is now
pretty much useless if you can’t also overrun the foe. Some
have suggested that you could charge in a manner that
would not bring you through the target creature’s square
(or squares). To do so, you would not be charging directly
toward the target and likely not moving by the shortest
route (also a charge requirement) or attacking it from the
first possible square (another charge requirement). In any
of these cases, you would be breaking the rules for a charge.
Am I wrong about any of this?

No, you’ve got it about right.
When using the Ride-By attack feat, you must conduct your
charge so that you move in a straight line toward the closest
square from which it is possible to attack your chosen foe, so
long as it is a square that allows you to attack and then continue
on in the straight line of the charge. You still must attack your
foe the moment you reach that square. (Although the feat
description doesn’t say so, you and your mount also must move
at least 5 feet after you make your attack to get the benefit of
the feat.) This is a special rule for charging when using the
Ride-By Attack feat. Note that the Flyby Attack feat (discussed
in the previous question) does not require you to move in a
straight line. You merely make a single move and take another
standard action at some point during that move.

bbugg
2007-10-25, 02:40 PM
Right - so I'll let him make attacks at small angles to the opponent so that he can use ride-by attack. Of course, he wants to be able to do more... See small lancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60806) thread...

What do you think of the balance of this homebrew feat?

Improved Ride-by Attack
Prerequisite: Ride-by Attack
Ride: 5 ranks
This allows you to change the direction of the movement allowed by ride-by attack by up to 90 degrees.

kkortekaas
2007-10-25, 02:44 PM
So it will essentially emulate the Fleet of Foot feat from Complete Warrior? except only work while mounted.

I like it!

bbugg
2007-10-25, 02:46 PM
But unlike Fleet of Foot, it limits where you can have the change of direction. You can only change direction at the point of attack.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-10-25, 02:51 PM
It sounds fine to me. :smallsmile:

Frosty
2007-10-25, 02:53 PM
I just house-rule that you can go thru your opponent's square after the charge attack.