Warcaster or Resilient (Con)?

[Mr Adventurer]

I've got a 7th level Forest Gnome Conjurer who has Con 12.

I have Int 18 so can wait on getting Int 20.

So, so many Conjuration (and other!) spells are Concentration. I didn't appreciate that when I made the character.

So should I be thinking about Resilient (Con), or Warcaster at next level? I like Resilient because it'll help me improve my Con score to get more hit points and Con saves are generally very important. But I believe Advantage is a better bet for concentration saves? Thoughts?

[LudicSavant]

I've got a 7th level Forest Gnome Conjurer who has Con 12.

I have Int 18 so can wait on getting Int 20.

So, so many Conjuration (and other!) spells are Concentration. I didn't appreciate that when I made the character.

So should I be thinking about Resilient (Con), or Warcaster at next level? I like Resilient because it'll help me improve my Con score to get more hit points and Con saves are generally very important. But I believe Advantage is a better bet for concentration saves? Thoughts?

Your chance to hit a DC10 Concentration save with 12 Con is:

Res(Con): 75% (+3 prof) to 90% (+6 prof)
Warcaster: 84%

Your chance to hit a DC20 Concentration save with 12 Con is:

Res(Con): 25% (+3 prof) to 40% (+6 prof)
Warcaster: 19%

However, the Conjurer's level 10 ability simply prevents you from having Concentration broken as a result of damage at all, so long as you're casting Conjuration spells.

[Deathtongue]

So should I be thinking about Resilient (Con), or Warcaster at next level? I like Resilient because it'll help me improve my Con score to get more hit points and Con saves are generally very important. But I believe Advantage is a better bet for concentration saves? Thoughts?What kind of damage does your character typically take? Nuisance damage or big hits? If you're taking a lot of nuisance damage, Warcaster will help you with concentration better if you manage to scrape up a couple of saving throw bonuses from other sources. If not, or if you take a couple of big hits in a battle, Resilient will help more.

That's just as far as concentration goes. As a gnome conjurer, you're probably not going to use the other features of Warcaster that much. Doubly so after you hit level 10. You will be using the CON saving throw proficiency quite often for things aside from concentration. So unless your DM regularly has you face a lot of skeleton archers and kobold slingers to try out your shiny new Cloak of Protection + Luckstone combo, I'd go with Resilient.

[CTurbo]

Even Con score? Go Warcaster. Res(Con) only moves your Con to 13 which does not give you more HP.

Plus the 3rd Warcaster feature is really nice for any caster.

"When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."

[Deathtongue]

"When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."As someone who played a Bladesinger to level 17 with Warcaster (which was better for my concentration saves), I didn't use that feature of Warcaster all that much, for several reasons. Which would be surprising, since you'd think I was exactly the kind of build that would get the most out of it. Still:

1) A lot of monsters just didn't provoke opportunity attacks.
2) Even if they did, I was reluctant to take it a lot of the time because it left me hanging on a clutch Song of Defense/Absorb Elements/Shield/Counterspell.
3) And even if I did want to take it, I usually defaulted to Booming Blade. Which was a pretty nice chunk of extra damage, don't get me wrong, but I was wary about using actual spell slots because oftentimes they weren't a good target for it or were out-of-position.

The upshot of it is that I mainly used the OA feature of Warcaster when I was faced with a bunch of nuisance enemies who were swarming all over the place.

If you're going to get Warcaster, get it just for the concentration saving throws or if you plan to dual-wield magical staves (I did on an Evoker I played in AL Season 7) or wield a shield.

[Mr Adventurer]

Your chance to hit a DC10 Concentration save with 12 Con is:

Res(Con): 75% (+3 prof) to 90% (+6 prof)
Warcaster: 84%

Your chance to hit a DC20 Concentration save with 12 Con is:

Res(Con): 25% (+3 prof) to 40% (+6 prof)
Warcaster: 19%

However, the Conjurer's level 10 ability simply prevents you from having Concentration broken as a result of damage at all, so long as you're casting Conjuration spells.

Thanks for the breakdown, that's really helpful. I did overlook the level 10 ability. That does make me feel better about my situation overall. I'd still like better concentration for those great Enchantment and Transmutation spells though (polymorph! I want to turn into King Kong at least once).


What kind of damage does your character typically take? Nuisance damage or big hits? If you're taking a lot of nuisance damage, Warcaster will help you with concentration better if you manage to scrape up a couple of saving throw bonuses from other sources. If not, or if you take a couple of big hits in a battle, Resilient will help more.

That's just as far as concentration goes. As a gnome conjurer, you're probably not going to use the other features of Warcaster that much. Doubly so after you hit level 10. You will be using the CON saving throw proficiency quite often for things aside from concentration. So unless your DM regularly has you face a lot of skeleton archers and kobold slingers to try out your shiny new Cloak of Protection + Luckstone combo, I'd go with Resilient.

It's really been variable. I am generally pretty good at staying out of the way, but sometimes the nooks swarm in and recently I was ambushed by a stone giant (no, I don't know how) that flattened me in one turn.


Even Con score? Go Warcaster. Res(Con) only moves your Con to 13 which does not give you more HP.

Plus the 3rd Warcaster feature is really nice for any caster.

"When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."

I fell as though I should put points into Con for the extra hp and saves anyway, so the +1 is still useful there even if it doesn't give me an increase immediately.

I can't remember the last time anyone tried to retreat from me - typically an enemy in melee with a wizard is just where they want to be.


As someone who played a Bladesinger to level 17 with Warcaster (which was better for my concentration saves), I didn't use that feature of Warcaster all that much, for several reasons. Which would be surprising, since you'd think I was exactly the kind of build that would get the most out of it. Still:

1) A lot of monsters just didn't provoke opportunity attacks.
2) Even if they did, I was reluctant to take it a lot of the time because it left me hanging on a clutch Song of Defense/Absorb Elements/Shield/Counterspell.
3) And even if I did want to take it, I usually defaulted to Booming Blade. Which was a pretty nice chunk of extra damage, don't get me wrong, but I was wary about using actual spell slots because oftentimes they weren't a good target for it or were out-of-position.

The upshot of it is that I mainly used the OA feature of Warcaster when I was faced with a bunch of nuisance enemies who were swarming all over the place.

If you're going to get Warcaster, get it just for the concentration saving throws or if you plan to dual-wield magical staves (I did on an Evoker I played in AL Season 7) or wield a shield.

This is a really interesting breakdown, thank you. I have Glasstaff's Glass Staff so Shield is a common option for me. I also really, really value my Counterspell, it's always an absolute delight when it works.

I think I'm leaning toward Resilient!

[HiveStriker]

I've got a 7th level Forest Gnome Conjurer who has Con 12.

I have Int 18 so can wait on getting Int 20.

So, so many Conjuration (and other!) spells are Concentration. I didn't appreciate that when I made the character.

So should I be thinking about Resilient (Con), or Warcaster at next level? I like Resilient because it'll help me improve my Con score to get more hit points and Con saves are generally very important. But I believe Advantage is a better bet for concentration saves? Thoughts?
Resilient is overall better by a league for you.
- Higher "auto-save" floor, higher "auto-fail" floor, and overall more reliable chance for easy saves.
- Will get automatically better as you progress.
- As a Conjurer, you will rarely be in melee, so little use for the "spell as OA".
- As a Conjurer, you will rarely need to use both hands on weapons, so little use for "waive somatic component".

Plus Resilient Constitution will also help you have a fighting chance warding off nasty effects born from some creature's special features, or other casters's spells.

Really, Warcaster is useless for you. Even if you currently have an even Constitution. Unless you planned on multiclassing into a martial later.

[Zhorn]

Warcaster all day, every day. Love that feat.

[BoringInfoGuy]

Warcaster all day, every day. Love that feat.

Warcaster feels like it was made more for Clerics or EKs than Wizards.

Even then I chose Resiliant Con before Warcaster for my Cleric. I’m already dealing with managing swapping between having a hand free for casting certain spells vs having a weapon in hand for potential opportunity attacks. So that is just a perk.

Numerically, it’s a bigger boost to all Constitution based saves, not just to keep spells. It auto improves with level.

The big boost from Warcaster is being able to drop a spell like Hold Person on an enemy trying to flee.

Then again, last time a boss tried to flee from our group, I got a lucky crit with a thrown dagger I was borrowing from our EK. Also very satisfying, and works without a spell slot.

Still Warcaster is fighting with capping Wis for my next ASI. It’s a great feat.

[Mr Adventurer]

Resilient is overall better by a league for you.
- Higher "auto-save" floor, higher "auto-fail" floor, and overall more reliable chance for easy saves.
- Will get automatically better as you progress.
- As a Conjurer, you will rarely be in melee, so little use for the "spell as OA".
- As a Conjurer, you will rarely need to use both hands on weapons, so little use for "waive somatic component".

Plus Resilient Constitution will also help you have a fighting chance warding off nasty effects born from some creature's special features, or other casters's spells.

Really, Warcaster is useless for you. Even if you currently have an even Constitution. Unless you planned on multiclassing into a martial later.

Good analysis, thanks. Echoes a lot of what I'm currently thinking...

Multiclassing doesn't add saving throw proficiencies though?


Warcaster all day, every day. Love that feat.

Why's that?

[Zhorn]

Why's that?
The biggest draw for me is always the ability to cast action spells and cantrips as reaction attacks, but like many things YMMV depending on how your DM runs their combats.

For maintaining concentration, again there are multiple factors. If you're only using conjuration spells, then that aspect will loose all purpose for you by level 10, but advantage on all other concentration spells is still nice. Compared to Resilient (Con) you may need to look at the main forms of damage you take. Smaller regular hits (under 17 damage) tend to favor Warcaster, for bigger infrequent hits go Resilient (Con). If it's a fairly even mix, Warcaster for levels 1-8, level 9 onward Resilient (Con) starts to pull ahead in reliability thanks to the increasing proficiency score.

the last part of Warcaster is what tips some people into thinking this is ONLY for gish builds (EK's, melee clerics and the like), but it's the other two components of the feat I put more value on. Still, not having to have a weapon-free hand for somatic components is a neat quality of life gimmick.

Given your level and Con score, Resilient Con will probably be better for you if you only are looking at the con save element. I still favor Warcaster first for my characters since it gives 3 mechanics instead of just 1, offence + defence + utility vs just defence.

[Arkhios]

Warcaster feels like it was made more for Clerics or EKs than Wizards.

Or Paladins, who can get around not having the proficiency in Constitution with their Aura of Protection (gained at 6th level), and will essentially* have them both with just one feat
(*Obviously not quite the same, but close)

As an aside, War Caster opens up quite a few potentially game-changing uses for a Paladin's spells, even though they don't have certain often-abused cantrips at their disposal.
A few years ago I made a list of Paladin spells eligible for War Caster, if someone's interested.

[BoringInfoGuy]

Or Paladins, who can get around not having the proficiency in Constitution with their Aura of Protection (gained at 6th level), and will essentially* have them both with just one feat
(*Obviously not quite the same, but close)

As an aside, War Caster opens up quite a few potentially game-changing uses for a Paladin's spells, even though they don't have certain often-abused cantrips at their disposal.
A few years ago I made a list of Paladin spells eligible for War Caster, if someone's interested.
You mean Paladins can use their Smite Slots to cast spells too?! J/K

[Arkhios]

You mean Paladins can use their Smite Slots to cast spells too?! J/K

Indeed! Can you imagine the audacity of doing so!? (J/K noted)

[Eldariel]

If you have the opportunity to take a worthwhile +1/+1 level-up eventually (so one involving Int/Dex/Con and perhaps Wis/Cha depending on character details), definitely Res: Con. Even if not though, you can engineer such a situation (take another half-feat or whatever later). Don't forget, it's not just Concentration: save most dangerous to your character's well-being is generally Con (the one most dangerous to your party is Wis of course), and those are fairly frequent (quick search puts it at astounding 486/1297 or 37% of the monsters though that doesn't include monster spell-likes).

I'd only take Warcaster over Res: Con if I were definitely making a lot of use of the other two effects: two-weapon fighting/sword & board casters obviously need Warcaster and casters who get lots of AoOs like Clerics with their Spirit Guardians are well-served by Warcaster's abilities. On a Wizard? I'd consider it almost never worth it unless you're taking both (and that's generally a bit wasteful unless you plan on tanking big damage hits a lot: 16 Con and Res: Con gets you to autosuccess level for DC10 checks on level 13).

In fact, that's another reason: Res: Con can combine with Con-boosters (Amulet of Health exists), save-boosters, etc. to automake the default DC10 saves you'll always be taking off auras/minions/successful save spells/whatever, while Warcaster doesn't actually ever negate the need to roll, only improves your chances.

[Deathtongue]

It's really not a bad idea for even vanilla wizards to grab both if you have the bandwidth. Which you won't until level 12/16, unless you rolled like a Greek God for your stats. The consequences for failing concentration saving throws gets worse and worse as the game goes on. Not just with obvious ones like Haste and Conjure Elemental, but losing concentration on a Wall of Stone or Polymorph just hurts.

[Contrast]

Or Paladins, who can get around not having the proficiency in Constitution with their Aura of Protection (gained at 6th level), and will essentially* have them both with just one feat
(*Obviously not quite the same, but close)

The other side of that coin is that if you do take Res Con as a paladin you can be auto-passing DC10 concentration checks by level 6.

[Mr Adventurer]

All my stats are even at the moment but yeah, easy to engineer it for another time, and in the meantime I expect I'll need a better Con save overall.

[Benny89]

For me It's like this:

1. If backline caster - RES (CON) is imo better because it also gives you prof in CON saves, which is not only good for concentration spells but for various of attacks/spells/effects that can disable/hurt you because casters don't have CON saves usually (Sorc being exception). Also even if you have proficiencies in armor and shields you will most likely stand behind with free hand anyway and cast spells. If you CON score is odd - it's even more no brainer to snatch RES (CON)

2. If you are in melee range - Arcana Cleric (and other good melee domains), melee Sword/Valor Bard, Paladin etc. - Warcaster because then your OAs get stronger (BB/spells), you can cast with weapon and shield and you get advantage on concentration saves.

So it depends on your playstyle.

For example for my Wizard I take RES (CON). For my Paladin I always take Warcaster.

[KorvinStarmast]

A few years ago I made a list of Paladin spells eligible for War Caster, if someone's interested. Yes, I am interested. :smallcool:

[Eldariel]

It's really not a bad idea for even vanilla wizards to grab both if you have the bandwidth. Which you won't until level 12/16, unless you rolled like a Greek God for your stats. The consequences for failing concentration saving throws gets worse and worse as the game goes on. Not just with obvious ones like Haste and Conjure Elemental, but losing concentration on a Wall of Stone or Polymorph just hurts.

The principal issue with this is, as you mentioned, bandwidth. Even if you're a Vuman with 19 Int + Observant or whatever, you're still only looking at 5 feats over your career. One of those is Res: Con or War Caster (practically always Res: Con from an optimization PoV unless you're a Transmuter or a Bladesinger). That leaves 4 feats, most which you'll only be looking at Tier 3-4, and you definitely do want Alert and probably Lucky (for most days, Lucky is War Caster that can be used to other ends too: if you're taking 40+ damage regularly, you probably aren't standing for very long) too before you start picking up War Caster/Tough/Mobile/etc. So this pushes it back to level 16-20 at best, though at that point the damage you're potentially taking when you do take damage is big enough that it's probably warranted (you aren't getting into the autosave zone for DC20 without a 20 Cha Pally Simulacrum or similar).

Of course, it does always compete with Con/Dex increases, which are also quite valuable. But if you do roll 3 18s, you can of course get 20 to all three with two ASIs still leaving you with 4 feats so there's probably space for War Caster there too (though at that point it's competing with secondary feats like Prodigy [Stealth or Athletics for Shapechange/Magic Jar nonsense], PAM/Sentinel [for Tenser's + Shapechange/Magic Jar nonsense], etc.).

[HiveStriker]

Good analysis, thanks. Echoes a lot of what I'm currently thinking...

Multiclassing doesn't add saving throw proficiencies though?

No indeed. But if you multiclassed in, for example, a Fighter for 5 or more levels, you would get enough martial proficiencies (medium armor, martial weapons, extra attacks) to make being in melee (and thus trying to get more OAs) more appealing.

I don't see any great reason to do that though well you picked Conjurer as Wizard school, except for kicks or playing something in an original way. ^^

[Zuras]

Personally, I always prefer Resilient:Con over Warcaster unless I really need to cast spells with both my hands full.

As a Wizard without armor proficiency, you won’t use the OA trigger, can’t wield a shield and probably won’t be dual wielding wands, none of the secondary Warcaster features will benefit you much.

The difference in concentration check bonuses at 8th level is a hard +3 (+4 with odd Con score) vs a soft +5, so without a use for the secondary WC features Res:Con is ahead by a mile. Every campaign is different, of course, but in my experience every time I took Warcaster first I have ended up regretting it when I lost concentration due to massive damage from a poison or cold effect with a con save.

I play mostly AL, so all the casters normally use their default spell blocks and lots of Cones of Cold and Cloudkills get thrown around. If you are 7th level and have never been hit by a cold or poison AoE, this analysis might not apply to your DM.