Blackrazer vs Ring Of Mindshielding

[AlpacaMan]

So my Wizard has a Ring of Mindshielding and one of our recurring nemeses has a weapon that functions similar to Blackrazer. It's a sword that consumes the souls of its victims.

So I'm wondering, if this guy does manage to kill me, what will take effect first? Will his sword consume my soul or will my soul be shunted into the Ring of Mindshielding? Is there any specific ruling or is it DM's discretion? Perhaps a save of some kind to determine which occurs first? Or would Blackrazer, as the rarer and more powerful magic item simply take priority?

[ProsecutorGodot]

I believe it would be DM discretion, I can't find anything that would explicitly allow one to trump the other.

If I were to rule on it, and remember this is completely subjective, I would have a percentile chance of which magic item won. Blackrazor would probably be favored, I may even add success at a cost in favor of the player where a portion of their soul is taken rather than the entirety of it, better than being fully dead with no chance of resurrection.

[Eldariel]

I'd probably roll opposed d20s with item with a tie ripping the soul to two sources making any resurrection impossible until after one is sundered and the soul is whole again (or weirdness happens). I'd say Blackrazor as a powerful, intelligent magic item should get to add its Charisma modifier to the roll (+4 if going by its BGII statline but of course this depends on the exact weapon).

[HolyDraconus]

Duplicate of razer? Roll with no advantage. Actual razer? No roll, you lose.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Perhaps a save of some kind to determine which occurs first?

A save sounds good. Sounds fair for the preparations you made. Your soul is trying to evade the bad item well and long enough to willingly enter the weaker good item. And ones decided on a save, the stat and DC would be casting stat and save DC of the caster that made the bad item right?

You should totally discuss this with your DM by the way if you want to have a say in this. Ones they publicly stated how they were going to handle it (that is: as the event is happening) it's too late to change their mind. If you want to be surprised that's fine, just be prepared for them having a different idea than you did.

[Mr Adventurer]

If the sword has a magical effect which gives mechanics to it's soul-eating, and that's what kills you, then the sword wins. If it's just regular damage from the sword, which has a side note about being killed by it means the soul is eaten, then the ring wins.

I'm not familiar with how Blackrazor works but I'm thinking of something like a Con save or be killed by soul-eating, like a Nine Lives Stealer; or the bonus damage from a Life Drinker.

Such an effect that isn't instant death but is a rider, then any attack to which that rider applies means the sword wins.

[Deathtongue]

Ring of Mind Shielding doesn't technically help, since Blackrazor sucks out your soul when you reach 0 hp -- you're not dead yet. However, Ring of Mind Shielding only works when you die. So Blackrazor sucks out your soul before you die. The only exception I can think of is a 1st-level low-hp character who dies instantly from the necrotic damage.

[Joe the Rat]

This is firmly in DM call territory, but if 'es up to snuff, 'e should have a plan.

Blackrazor is (IF the target is reduced to zero, THEN blackrazor slays and devours the soul). This is one of those "bypass death saves" events similar to disintegration. It's just a question of if the devouring is part of the same effect as the slaying. I'd say yes - it seems to read that it kills you by ripping your soul out.

HOWever, As DM I would entertain the idea of there being some clash between the magic ring and the magic (intelligent, legendary, but not an artifact) sword. I would seriously consider letting the ring function, and have that trigger the "hit an undead" rebound on the wielder. That would make for a pretty epic victory event.

I'd also have the ring stay in play if the villain "only" has a nine-lives stealer.

[Bobthewizard]

Since you are the player, be prepared for it to consume your soul.

If I were the DM, though, I'd let the ring work since I think it makes for a more interesting story.

[Mikal]

RAW? Blackrazor... most of the time.
Why? Because Blackrazors soul suck attack occurs when it brings a target to 0 hp. NOT only when it kills something.

The ring of mind shielding requires death to occur first. As such, opponent is brought to 0 hp, soul is sucked, then dies. Ring of Mind Shielding has nothing to shelter.

So, with the RAW being above, I'd rule that the ring of mind shielding only trumps blackrazor if the damage from blackrazor kills the target outright, not just drops them to 0 hp.

That way Blackrazor has the power it should, while the ring is not relegated to uselessness with relation to its death protection.


Since you are the player, be prepared for it to consume your soul.

If I were the DM, though, I'd let the ring work since I think it makes for a more interesting story.

EDIT: Disregard. I thought you were saying the NPC would be protected while the PC wouldn't if you were running the game. Reading fail on my part.

[Reynaerde]

As a DM, I would like my player's item investment to mean something, but also have the artifact feel powerful. So I would probably turn this into a small skill challenge for that player to see if she or he can have it hide in the ring on time. Ideally, a skill challenge with more outcomes than just A or B.