Psionics and how to take them

[Silverhawk112]

I've been talking to 2 of my friends who are much more knowledgeable on 3.5 and most of its aspects. However, one thing they say doesn't seem to be correct and I would like some help trying to show me if they are right or wrong. They think that they have in common is they say that you need to either be a psionic race like elan or xaph, or you need to take the wild talent feet. I had an issue with that because I've seen cases from published material (Psionics Handbook, pg 12 with the starter packages) stating the otherwise. I've brought them this and they said that they forgot to add the feat. Could someone help me?

[gogogome]

I've been talking to 2 of my friends who are much more knowledgeable on 3.5 and most of its aspects. However, one thing they say doesn't seem to be correct and I would like some help trying to show me if they are right or wrong. They think that they have in common is they say that you need to either be a psionic race like elan or xaph, or you need to take the wild talent feet. I had an issue with that because I've seen cases from published material (Psionics Handbook, pg 12 with the starter packages) stating the otherwise. I've brought them this and they said that they forgot to add the feat. Could someone help me?

They are correct.

First, stat blocks are atrocious. They are wrong so many times that it's best to always assume they are wrong and triple check the stats yourself. Even the zombie stat blocks in MMI don't follow their own rules in the same book.

Second

Psionic Feats

Psionic feats are available only to characters and creatures with the ability to manifest powers. (In other words, they either have a power point reserve or have psi-like abilities.)
So they are correct that you need to have a power point reserve (like Elan or the Wild Talent feat) to be able to obtain psionic feats.

[Silverhawk112]

I see what you are saying. I just want to be clear, I have to be something with a power point reserve or take the wild talent feat, just so I can take a psionic class. I Don't think I was super clear in the post, being my first one, and want to make sure that I fully understand what you are saying.

[gogogome]

I see what you are saying. I just want to be clear, I have to be something with a power point reserve or take the wild talent feat, just so I can take a psionic class. I Don't think I was super clear in the post, being my first one, and want to make sure that I fully understand what you are saying.

Psionic Class? As in a level in Psion?

No, you don't need to have a power point reserve or the wild talent feat to take a level in a Class.

There is no requirement to take a class.
There is no rule prohibiting a creature from taking a psionic class.

Your friends are wrong. Ask them to show them the rule that prohibits normal creatures from taking a psion class level. They can't because it does not exist. The rules only prohibit nonpsionics from taking psionic feats, NOT class.

[Silverhawk112]

Thanks a million for the information. I thought that was the case tbh because if there was one, it would say it on the class. Like a prestige class.

[Malphegor]

Yeah I was confused by this too- the majority of psionic classes give you the psionic points to count as a psionic creature without needing wild or hidden talent. Those are mainly for when you want to get the ability to psionic focus for various feat reasons.

I was initially confused since for Warforged, you can become psionic by being a Psiforged via the feat, having cognisance crystals in your body, but that’s not really essential afaik if you’re a psion just to qualify for psionic powers.

[Calthropstu]

They are correct.

First, stat blocks are atrocious. They are wrong so many times that it's best to always assume they are wrong and triple check the stats yourself. Even the zombie stat blocks in MMI don't follow their own rules in the same book.

Second

So they are correct that you need to have a power point reserve (like Elan or the Wild Talent feat) to be able to obtain psionic feats.

Or be a psionic class. Psionic classes do not need to take wild talent feat to take psionic feats.

Edit: I should really read rest of thread before posting.

[Segev]

For clarity, the rule is that you are a psionic creature if you have power points.

Psionic creatures have access to psionic focus, and may take psionic feats.

You do not need to BE a psionic creature to take a psionic class; psionic classes MAKE you a psionic creature by giving you power points.

The only reason soulknife gets Wild Talent as a bonus feat is because the class doesn't do anything else to make them psionic, and a number of feats they're supposed to be able to take are [Psionic].

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If they decide to stay wrong and house rule it so that you still need power points prior to taking a psionic class, use Hidden Talent (XPH p67, sidebar) instead of Wild Talent. That gets you an additional 1st level power known, which can be from any class list, including Psychic Warrior or Psychic Rogue (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) powers that you wouldn't otherwise have available to you.

[Psyren]

You don't need to be a psionic race to take a psionic class.


For clarity, the rule is that you are a psionic creature if you have power points.

Psionic creatures have access to psionic focus, and may take psionic feats.

You do not need to BE a psionic creature to take a psionic class; psionic classes MAKE you a psionic creature by giving you power points.

Well yes - but having power points isn't the only way to be a psionic creature; another way is by having one or more psi-like abilities (XPH 68). For example, Crysmals have no power points, but they are still psionic creatures because of the PLAs they possess.

[Segev]

Well yes - but having power points isn't the only way to be a psionic creature; another way is by having one or more psi-like abilities (XPH 68). For example, Crysmals have no power points, but they are still psionic creatures because of the PLAs they possess.

True, good point. (Which just makes me madder that they give soulknives Wild Talent and nothing to do with it. Could've declared the psiblade a psi-like ability and they'd be psionic creatures. I hate ribbons that literally do nothing. I like ribbons that give frivolous or not-strong, but flavorful features. But +2 pp as a feat because, um, because? Ugh. If this were some sort of Iron Chef-like class design contest, that'd be major minus points for lack of elegance. Ignoring any other problems the class may have.)

[Psyren]

True, good point. (Which just makes me madder that they give soulknives Wild Talent and nothing to do with it. Could've declared the psiblade a psi-like ability and they'd be psionic creatures. I hate ribbons that literally do nothing. I like ribbons that give frivolous or not-strong, but flavorful features. But +2 pp as a feat because, um, because? Ugh. If this were some sort of Iron Chef-like class design contest, that'd be major minus points for lack of elegance. Ignoring any other problems the class may have.)

Yikes - that would make it dispellable, subject to SR/PR, provoke when activated...

Also, while PLAs make you [psionic], only a power point reserve gives you the ability to maintain psionic focus. (It's weird, I know.) Since so many of the martial psionic feats depend on that, they would need a power point reserve anyway. But if they simply got one without power progression it would also be weird I guess? I don't know.

[Nifft]

True, good point. (Which just makes me madder that they give soulknives Wild Talent and nothing to do with it. Could've declared the psiblade a psi-like ability and they'd be psionic creatures.

Don't do that.

Give them a separate, harmless PLA ("detect psionics at-will") and that would solve the issue without making their core power worse.

[Segev]

Don't do that.

Give them a separate, harmless PLA ("detect psionics at-will") and that would solve the issue without making their core power worse.

My only real gripe is that htey have nothing to do with those 2 pp. :smalltongue: If they had something to do with them other than "they're two more pp than they would've had, should they multiclass," I'd not be so annoyed.

Ah well. It's not a big deal.

[Psyren]

Give them a separate, harmless PLA ("detect psionics at-will") and that would solve the issue without making their core power worse.

That would solve one problem (i.e. allowing them to still count as "[psionic]" and thus take psionic feats) - but as mentioned, would not solve the problem of most psionic feats requiring maintaining or expending focus. You do need an actual PP reserve to have a focus (for some reason), thus they would still need Wild Talent or some built-in pool at a minimum.

[Endarire]

To clarify, Psionics Handbook is 3.0 and was replaced by Expanded Psionics Handbook which was 3.5.