When giant flyers attack!

[Yora]

I am running an Isle of Dread campaign and there's plenty of big flying creatures. Hippogriffs, wyverns, ptarodactyls, and a roc. But looking at their starts, I'm not really sure what to do with them other than land and peck at the PCs until they lost a good amount of hp and try to fly away.
The roc is the biggest baddest thing on the whole island, but what it does is one beak and one claw attack per round. Killing it should feel like an epic battle, but it's just a hawk with more hp and more damage.

Is there anything cool you can do with monsters that can fly?

[MrStabby]

So are you looking at tactics, like grapple the party rogue and fly off with them out of range then drop them to their death?

Or are you talking about ways to augment dull stat blocks like adding a dragon's wing buffet to Big Bird?

Or are you looking for more contextual solutions such as the Roc flying out of low fog clouds to surprise the party/hinder spells that need to see the target?


What flavour solutions are you looking for?

[da newt]

Skirmisher tactics - hit and run flybys. Stuff that can fly would never decide to land - that would give away their advantage.

Grapple and fly away to isolate one victim or drop them on the party (1d6 fall damage per 10').

Attack out of the sun for a surprise round.

Fighting in 3d is very interesting.

Ensure there is terrain to add to the encounter - a cliff, body of water, wall, roofed area for cover for PCs etc

[Yora]

What flavour solutions are you looking for?

Anything. Having a good amount of options to spontaneously pick from as encounters are happening.

[J-H]

Obligatory link:
http://themonstersknow.com/roc-tactics/

I suggest modifying what he suggests by having the Roc do flyby attacks until it grabs something, then finish its movement about 100' away on the ground as it tries to finish off the party member. That creates a race against time to reach and help that PC. Alternatively, it could just swoop in, grab someone, and take them to a nearby nest, where the character is confronted with two rocking (nearly going to hatch) eggs his own size. The parent Roc just sits there and watches the PC, clearly (Insight DC 5) planning to kill him if he does anything to harm the eggs or chicks. He's there as a first meal.

This gives the rest of the party a time limit to solve the exploration challenge/encounter to reach the PC and rescue him.


For the others - are the PCs just backpacking around, or do they have horses and maybe a supply wagon? I would expect the horses to be a main target.

The wyverns might have a nest (with treasure) in a cave on a hill, and start hit-and-running the party whenever they get close to the hill. Make it obvious that there's a nest there.

The pterodactyls might operate like vultures, circling overhead and only coming down to try to finish off and eat creatures (PCs or foes) that are below 25% hp. Have them do it to a monster first, and the PCs will probably consciously start working to avoid getting injured enough to earn the complication.

[Lupine]

I'm not a huge tactics guy, but you could probably have the roc carry a rock, and then drop it on the party from 200+ feet.

Let the roc-rock rock the parties socks off.

[Yora]

The bite and stinger attacks of wyverns and rocs have a range of 10. So they can simply move within reach of a PC, make an attack, and continue on their way. Unless a PC has a weapon with reach, they won't get any opportunity attacks from that.

Grab and drop would certainly work for a roc, and very effectively. But I doubt it would be any fun for any player who gets hit by it. It's actually too go.

I think a roc really should be a legendary creature, especially in a campaign when there is only one that terrorizes the entire island. Legendary resistance should keep it from dying from a single unlucky saving throw, and the Empyrean's Trembling Strike seems like a perfect fit as a legendary action. (I noticed the roc's Grapple DC is 19, while for a CR 11 creature with a +9 Strength modifier it should be 21. Is that a case of deliberately lowering the DC to balance the creature or is there a mechanical reason for that?)

I think wyverns and rocs are probably the most interesting when they are really dangerous to the party and the players really don't want to fight them in the open. Being forced to take cover and working on some solution to escape undetected or make them go away can be a great encounter. And they could keep circling overhead while the party is currently in safety between very dense trees.
Simply fighting them on the ground in an open field seems like a waste.

[KorvinStarmast]

Let the roc-rock rock the parties socks off. Roc-rocks fall fall and everybody dies-dies. :smalleek:

[WaroftheCrans]

The bite and stinger attacks of wyverns and rocs have a range of 10. So they can simply move within reach of a PC, make an attack, and continue on their way. Unless a PC has a weapon with reach, they won't get any opportunity attacks from that.

Grab and drop would certainly work for a roc, and very effectively. But I doubt it would be any fun for any player who gets hit by it. It's actually too go.

I think a roc really should be a legendary creature, especially in a campaign when there is only one that terrorizes the entire island. Legendary resistance should keep it from dying from a single unlucky saving throw, and the Empyrean's Trembling Strike seems like a perfect fit as a legendary action. (I noticed the roc's Grapple DC is 19, while for a CR 11 creature with a +9 Strength modifier it should be 21. Is that a case of deliberately lowering the DC to balance the creature or is there a mechanical reason for that?)

I think wyverns and rocs are probably the most interesting when they are really dangerous to the party and the players really don't want to fight them in the open. Being forced to take cover and working on some solution to escape undetected or make them go away can be a great encounter. And they could keep circling overhead while the party is currently in safety between very dense trees.
Simply fighting them on the ground in an open field seems like a waste.

If the Roc is your BBEG, by all means, give it legendary actions. Lets say:

Strike: The Roc makes one attack against a target within range.
Flattening Gust(?) (Costs 2 actions): The Roc beats the air the with its massive wings, triggering a huge gust of wind. All other creatures within 30 feet of the Roc must succeed on a DC 23 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Death's grip (Costs 2 actions): The Roc moves it's movement speed without provoking opportunity attacks, and makes a talon attack with a grapple DC of 23 (before or after moving)

The DC is correct for the Grapple Check, the Roc doesn't add its proficiency bonus (which is +4, not 2) as it doesn't have proficiency in Athletics, the skill used to grapple. So it's simply 10+Str. I added the proficiency bonus for the legendary actions, but I'd keep the base the same personally.

Have the Roc attack from directly overhead, even with the talons. The only person able to take an AoO then, would be the person attacked. The Roc would carry them up into the air and drop them if they aren't big enough (Lets say from about 50 feet, which is only 5d6 dmg{17 dmg), or don't seem to be injured enough (under 25 hp). Otherwise, it would continue to fly with them, and make beak attacks against it as it flew, until the target dies. The Roc is a predator, it will focus on downed enemies, not leave them alone.

However, this doesn't mean it will look at the squishy spellcaster, and instantly attack. That spellcaster is likely to be small enough that it won't regard them as a meal, or a serious threat (until they cast a nice big spell). On the other hand, if that Spellcaster described his character as being 6'6, it's a tasty looking meal, regardless of Con or Str.

If the PC's attack the nest, they should expect the Roc to fight till the death, otherwise the Roc will fly off when it's too injured. In the case of attacking the nest, the Roc would likely lead with the Flattening gust, and attempt to remove them all from the nest by tossing them off the cliff. Use shove attacks if necessary. Remember, the Roc also has two talons, and can grapple two creatures at once.

The Roc will hunt them down after removing them from the nest, and will not stop till they're dead, or at least a mile away.

[Yora]

Why 10 plus Strength? Shouldn't it be 8?

[Lupine]

Grab and drop would certainly work for a roc, and very effectively. But I doubt it would be any fun for any player who gets hit by it. It's actually too go.

It is very effective, but bear in mind that the Roc would have to go get another rock every time it wanted to drop one. It's a wallop out of nowhere, but the party has lots of time to prepare, assuming they're in the open. (it they're near cliffs or mountains, that's another story)

It could be a pretty good motivator, though.
"We can't rest outside anymore. That Roc could drop another rock on us at any time!"

[JackPhoenix]

(I noticed the roc's Grapple DC is 19, while for a CR 11 creature with a +9 Strength modifier it should be 21. Is that a case of deliberately lowering the DC to balance the creature or is there a mechanical reason for that?)

DC 19 means that creatures without positive modifier (either from proficiency or ability score bonus) still have a chance to escape, however slight.