Making a non-magical scholar PC

[Sam113097]

Hello! My current campaign is nearly complete, and another player will be DMing the next one. We have been workshopping the setting that they are building for their campaign together, so I know a bit about the lore, and I've decided to play as a historian/chronicler that would know that lore in-character as well. I'm interested in playing as a non-magical historian/scholar character, and I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with building a non-spellcasting scholar.

Currently, I feel that an Inquisitive Rogue with the Sage or Cloistered Scholar background and the Prodigy feat would be the best way to create a "researcher"-type player character, but I am open to suggestions or other ideas! Ideally, I would want to have proficiency in History, Arcana, and Religion, with Expertise in History, and ways to contribute both in and out of combat. Thank you!

[Democratus]

Rogue's expertise does seem like the best way to go if you want to super specialize in knowledge skills (and not be magical).

Curious to hear how it works out.

[elyktsorb]

Rogue is probably the best bet for this, because you can always just pump your int since they really only need Dex, and you get a lot of skills and expertise, etc, etc. As far as Subclass goes, if your goal is just for knowledge, I'd recommend taking Scout just for the free Expertise in Nature, and that could lean into a more hands on field researcher type guy if you want to round out your standard book researcher.

As far as being helpful in and out of combat, well, your a Rogue, regardless of your skill spread as long as you can hit things your fine in combat. But if you're stealth is going to just be your dex+your prof, same with your thieve's tools, expect to get some flak, especially if there's no one else in the party that can do those things. (Since I just feel like when you tell people you're making a Rogue, they probably expect that your going to be good at either Stealth, Thieve's Tools or both)

The issue with it being 'non-magical' is that there's next to no point in it being non-magical, as all the general knowledge skills (History, Arcana, Religion, Nature) are all Int based, so playing a Wizard is naturally one of the best ways to have these scores be high, the other is being an Arcana Cleric.

[Segev]

Hello! My current campaign is nearly complete, and another player will be DMing the next one. We have been workshopping the setting that they are building for their campaign together, so I know a bit about the lore, and I've decided to play as a historian/chronicler that would know that lore in-character as well. I'm interested in playing as a non-magical historian/scholar character, and I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with building a non-spellcasting scholar.

Currently, I feel that an Inquisitive Rogue with the Sage or Cloistered Scholar background and the Prodigy feat would be the best way to create a "researcher"-type player character, but I am open to suggestions or other ideas! Ideally, I would want to have proficiency in History, Arcana, and Religion, with Expertise in History, and ways to contribute both in and out of combat. Thank you!

Probably won't be what you're looking for, but I would be remiss if I didn't at least point out that all dwarves get a racial feature that gives them Expertise in History when it comes to stonework. If that's "good enough," you might look there. Since it probably isn't, this makes dwarf a less-desirable race.

With your high focus on skills, half-elf might be a good choice. They get two bonus skill proficiencies of their choice, and their fluff about being stuck between worlds would give one a reason to be interested in exploring and in history, especially if he's determined to know more about the past since one of his parents lived it and that side of his family tree goes way, way back without going too many generations back. Also makes you eligible for Prodigy, which is more proficiency and one more Expertise, on top of those granted by Rogue.

As an Inquisitive, you'll definitely want proficiency in Investigation and Perception, and probably Insight, too. Maybe Expertise in Perception or Investigation.

[ftafp]

Rogue is your easiest bet if you want expertise, but its not your only one. after all, prodigy is a thing

i mean sure, you could play a scout with the archaeologist background called Waterdeep Jones, but never forget that in real life both Lincoln and Plato were level 20 STRonks

[Anymage]

#1: Expertise is not necessary to be really good at something, except insofar as expertise can help counterbalance a low native ability score. (Which can be annoying since currently, only wizards and artificers really care about Int.) Still, just normal proficiency can hold you over quite handily.

#2: Just the Sage background and its feature should make you feel plenty scholar-like.

#3: I want to suggest either Fighter or Monk. The latter feels rather scholarly by its nature, while the former can fit into any fluff by virtue of little innate fluff of their own.

Rogue, despite having the strong Indiana Jones vibe, does encourage a lot of archetypal rogue fluff through their mechanics. (E.G: Your combat effectiveness being tied to SA damage means that you'll want to dual wield to reduce the chance of whiffing your one attack this round.) And while barbarians are nonmagical, I'd be curious to see a barbarian-scholar who wasn't played as a one trick pony joke.

[Nifft]

And while barbarians are nonmagical, I'd be curious to see a barbarian-scholar who wasn't played as a one trick pony joke.

Well-Read Sonja.

[werescythe]

Inquisitive Rogue is pretty good. You could also go Shadow Monk as a means to evade getting hurt. It's hard to kill a scholar if he is one with the shadows, emerging to give his sound advice to the party. :smallsmile:

[Segev]

I'd be curious to see a barbarian-scholar who wasn't played as a one trick pony joke.

Beast, especially from the X-Men movies. Scholarly and calm most of the time, and a raging force on the battlefield. Probably Shifter race; I suspect you could get the look right, that way.

Take the Sage or Acolyte background.

Subclass is a hard choice; Berserker could work but is so bad and doesn't really contribute to the concept. Totem Warrior feels a bit generic for it, and again, does little. Ancestral Guardian is probably most thematic, but has some very obviously magical elements, even if you're not "doing magic." But I think I'd go this route, and try to squeeze in some fluff about having chats with your spiritual guardians about historical stuff. Maybe it's even they who know where to go to learn something, rather than just you knowing it innately as a sage.

[Lavaeolus]

I think Inquisitive Rogue is a fine choice for this, yeah. It encourages you to put points more into Wisdom than Intelligence, but otherwise I think it and its abilities work well on a thematic level. Rogue does have some weird bits to reconcile due to some baked-in assumptions: where did you pick up Thieves' Cant? Why is your historian so good at shanking people and dodging?

But I don't think they're that hard to ignore or justify. Inquisitive sort of has a baked-in way to reconcile Sneak Attack right off the bat: as a scholar, you're just cartoonishly good at analysing people and their tactics, and thus can Insight check to 'develop a counter to them'. You don't really need to fall on Hide as much as some Rogues might, so aren't particularly obligated to take Stealth and be a sneaky type. In the long run, depending on what level you go to, you'll probably also appreciate the ability to grab Perception and Investigation advantage relatively easily. Just make sure your party understands where your talents lie.

Do be aware that History, Arcana and Religion aren't on the Rogue skill list and will have to come from either your background, race choice or elsewhere. Not a major deal in my view, although grabbing Prodigy for an extra skill/Expertise on a Rogue feels a little overkill. Variant Humans and Half-Elves with the right backgrounds, at least, should be able to grab all three skills feat-less.

Rogues are great at being consistent at their skills, so being automatically able to roll a 10 at least on your knowledge skills will certainly help you feel like a genuine scholar, assuming the DM asks for the skill checks regularly enough. You should probably try to grab Insight Expertise early on, but since you get four Expertise'd skills by level 6 I don't think that's too much of a sacrifice.

A historian could work as other classes, of course; a Lore Bard feels like it fits in well thematically and also gets plenty of skill buffs, as an example. But Rogue is also perfectly fine, and if you want to go non-magical I think it's the best fit. You could always, of course, be a Fighter or a Barbarian with Prodigy and buffed History, but these will mostly have their skills as ancilliary to their main chassis.

[Sam113097]

Thank you all so much for the feedback! I really appreciate it. I had initially considered Lore Bard, but all of the "scholarly" skills (Arcana, History, etc.) are Intelligence-based, so it seemed like it would be difficult to make it work with a Charisma caster. Wizard could work, but it'd take a feat to get History expertise, and I just generally like the idea of a normal person that manages to make it through dungeons and combat using only their knowledge, carrying around books on ancient history and identifying monster weaknesses!


Inquisitive sort of has a baked-in way to reconcile Sneak Attack right off the bat: as a scholar, you're just cartoonishly good at analysing people and their tactics, and thus can Insight check to 'develop a counter to them'. You don't really need to fall on Hide as much as some Rogues might, so aren't particularly obligated to take Stealth and be a sneaky type. In the long run, depending on what level you go to, you'll probably also appreciate the ability to grab Perception and Investigation advantage relatively easily. Just make sure your party understands where your talents lie.


That's why I'm leaning towards Inquisitive - it'd let me get sneak attack without Stealth while working well with the concept that I'm imagining.


Rogue is probably the best bet for this, because you can always just pump your int since they really only need Dex, and you get a lot of skills and expertise, etc, etc. As far as Subclass goes, if your goal is just for knowledge, I'd recommend taking Scout just for the free Expertise in Nature, and that could lean into a more hands on field researcher type guy if you want to round out your standard book researcher.

I hadn't thought of Scout! You're right, expertise in Nature could be really useful in identifying monsters and spouting lore about them.


#3: I want to suggest either Fighter or Monk. The latter feels rather scholarly by its nature, while the former can fit into any fluff by virtue of little innate fluff of their own.

Rogue, despite having the strong Indiana Jones vibe, does encourage a lot of archetypal rogue fluff through their mechanics. (E.G: Your combat effectiveness being tied to SA damage means that you'll want to dual wield to reduce the chance of whiffing your one attack this round.) And while barbarians are nonmagical, I'd be curious to see a barbarian-scholar who wasn't played as a one trick pony joke.

I'll take a look at Fighter and Monk as well! I do like the idea of not wearing armor as a Monk, but I feel that Monk and Barbarian would both be tough to pull off due to all of the different ability scores that they would require.

So far, it sounds like Variant Human and Half Elf would be useful due to the extra proficiencies. Are there any other race options that might be useful for a scholarly character?

[Eldariel]

I do think Mastermind Rogue might be something that might combat-wise be the most interesting to you. You'll get your 4 Expertises soon enough anyways. Mastermind's level 3 ability lets you contribute in combat by giving allies Advantage at range (ergo "telling of opponent's weak points"). As a bonus, you also learn 2 languages, which should be pretty darn fitting. The level 9 ability is incredibly fitting as well. Level 11 would be the break point after I'd multiclass: after Reliable Talent you have everything you want.

Then there's the question of what else to run. Obviously utility feats are of significant benefit to you: Healer seems quite logical as you understand creatures so deeply that you can patch them up with just a healer's kit and your skill. Inspiring Leader seems potentially worthwhile: it can be a philosophical lecture of purpose and the things you all are after more than anything. Observant is also beyond obvious; you have a keen eye for detail, and you'd definitely want Perception and Investigation as expertises too (perhaps take Prodigy for one of them and cope with the other). Keen Mind or Linguist could be cool though they're definitely kinda redundant with everything else you know, and probably thus not worth the feat slots.


Sneak Attack as such isn't that illogical either. You have perfect knowledge of creatures' anatomy. Therefore all you need is a little opening to stab them where it hurts the most. If you want the Inquisitive-style ability to sneak attack them non-magically without help, you can always take Silver Tongued and play it off as a Hannibal Lecture (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HannibalLecture). Or just you having them figured out (with the insight representing them being able to adapt). Then you'd want a feat that grants a bonus action attack: to make use of it all Crossbow Expert seems like just the thing (though just TWF works just as well without a feat). Frankly, with your busy action economy you might be better served by just multiclassing for Extra Attack instead (or for an easier source of Advantage).

At this point, your proficiencies would look like...
History
Arcana
Religion
Nature
Perception
Investigation
Deception
Insight?
Persuasion?

You get 7 from Rogue 4 + Background 2 + Vuman 1. The 8th would come from Prodigy easily enough. This would leave out one of Persuasion and Insight. Alternatively, Half-Elf would get all of them but at the cost of getting one less feat, which is probably more important in this case.

[Lavaeolus]

Sneak Attack as such isn't that illogical either. You have perfect knowledge of creatures' anatomy. Therefore all you need is a little opening to stab them where it hurts the most. If you want the Inquisitive-style ability to sneak attack them non-magically without help, you can always take Silver Tongued and play it off as a Hannibal Lecture (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HannibalLecture). Or just you having them figured out (with the insight representing them being able to adapt). Then you'd want a feat that grants a bonus action attack: to make use of it all Crossbow Expert seems like just the thing (though just TWF works just as well without a feat). Frankly, with your busy action economy you might be better served by just multiclassing for Extra Attack instead (or for an easier source of Advantage).

The main thing I'd warn, going this route, is to make sure you have a way of procc'ing Sneak Attack. In most parties it's not too much of an ordeal: assuming there are some other melee combatants, you can trigger Sneak Attack without advantage just by having someone friendly near your foe. (Specifically SA triggers: "if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn't incapacitated, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll.") I haven't really asked whether the intent is to go melee or ranged, but melee Rogues are usually just bad at hiding in combat regardless -- but they're still usually fine because of this.

So, as long as you're ganging up on someone with the Fighter or Paladin or whathaveyou, you can slack off Stealth regardless of subclass and avoid reliance on Hide. Inquisitive's Insightful Fighting can be mainly convenience or insurance, depending on party make-up. Of course, if the party is very melee-light or the encounters give you enough reason to split up, perhaps that's more of a concern.

I will note that Silver-Tongued is somewhat old UA (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-SkillFeats.pdf) -- so OP, you'd probably at least want to clear it with your DM first. It is, as mentioned, probably more useful if you're taking e.g. Fighter 5 for the Extra Attack.

[Sam113097]

I do think Mastermind Rogue might be something that might combat-wise be the most interesting to you. You'll get your 4 Expertises soon enough anyways. Mastermind's level 3 ability lets you contribute in combat by giving allies Advantage at range (ergo "telling of opponent's weak points"). As a bonus, you also learn 2 languages, which should be pretty darn fitting. The level 9 ability is incredibly fitting as well. Level 11 would be the break point after I'd multiclass: after Reliable Talent you have everything you want.

Then there's the question of what else to run. Obviously utility feats are of significant benefit to you: Healer seems quite logical as you understand creatures so deeply that you can patch them up with just a healer's kit and your skill. Inspiring Leader seems potentially worthwhile: it can be a philosophical lecture of purpose and the things you all are after more than anything. Observant is also beyond obvious; you have a keen eye for detail, and you'd definitely want Perception and Investigation as expertises too (perhaps take Prodigy for one of them and cope with the other). Keen Mind or Linguist could be cool though they're definitely kinda redundant with everything else you know, and probably thus not worth the feat slots.

Sneak Attack as such isn't that illogical either. You have perfect knowledge of creatures' anatomy. Therefore all you need is a little opening to stab them where it hurts the most. If you want the Inquisitive-style ability to sneak attack them non-magically without help, you can always take Silver Tongued and play it off as a Hannibal Lecture (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HannibalLecture). Or just you having them figured out (with the insight representing them being able to adapt). Then you'd want a feat that grants a bonus action attack: to make use of it all Crossbow Expert seems like just the thing (though just TWF works just as well without a feat). Frankly, with your busy action economy you might be better served by just multiclassing for Extra Attack instead (or for an easier source of Advantage).


I absolutely love Mastermind's bonus action help ability; I wish I could smash Inquisitive and Mastermind together to have both Insightful Fighting and Master of Tactics; they both would work well with this character concept. Healer definitely seems like a great feat to take, and I like Inspiring Leader as well, flavoring it as an explanation of the enemy the party is facing! i also think Defensive Duelist could be useful. I think I'll skip Silver-Tongued, as the Inquisitive's Insightful Fighting does the same thing as a bonus action.


The main thing I'd warn, going this route, is to make sure you have a way of procc'ing Sneak Attack. In most parties it's not too much of an ordeal: assuming there are some other melee combatants, you can trigger Sneak Attack without advantage just by having someone friendly near your foe. (Specifically SA triggers: "if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn't incapacitated, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll.") I haven't really asked whether the intent is to go melee or ranged, but melee Rogues are usually just bad at hiding in combat regardless -- but they're still usually fine because of this.

I know one player is pretty set on playing a Monk, so we should have at least one melee character to help me get advantage! I'm leaning towards a melee character as of now, just due to personal preference - I like the idea of this scholar running around with a book or scroll in one hand and a sword in the other.

[Hampulina]

It requires GM permission but have you considered the Expert class, from the sidekick UA? Seems like pretty much a perfect fit for what your descibing.

[Eldariel]

I absolutely love Mastermind's bonus action help ability; I wish I could smash Inquisitive and Mastermind together to have both Insightful Fighting and Master of Tactics; they both would work well with this character concept. Healer definitely seems like a great feat to take, and I like Inspiring Leader as well, flavoring it as an explanation of the enemy the party is facing! i also think Defensive Duelist could be useful. I think I'll skip Silver-Tongued, as the Inquisitive's Insightful Fighting does the same thing as a bonus action.

That's true, but Silver-Tongued woud allow you to smash Mastermind and Inquisitive together to a degree ;) That was my primary idea: get an Insightful Strike equivalent on a Mastermind chassis. Of course, you could ask your DM to multiclass Mastermind and Inquisitive taking nothing but the base progression and the subclass features. That sounds like it could do what you'd want.

[Sam113097]

It looks like the new Unearthed Arcana has exactly what I need to make this build work! The Tandem Tactician feat will give me the Mastermind's key feature (Help action as a bonus action at range) as an Inquisitive rogue. Right on time, as the campaign that I'll be playing this character in starts tomorrow. I'm excited to see how a non-caster scholar plays.

[Iku Rex]

You could consider multiclassing into/from Rune Knight (http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/fighter:rune-knight) (UA) fighter. Storm Rune fits the concept. Fire or Stone could also work well.