Artificer advice: spell for a wand

[Kaleph]

Hallo everybody, I am playing a low-level (currently lev. 7) artificer who spends quite some time in melee, but I'd like to start having also some offensive option to strike from a distance. Beside some blasting, I'd like to put some debuff (or save-or-suck, or no-save-just suck) in a wand, and I was considering one of the following spells:
- Glitterdust
- Blinding spittle
- Ray of dizziness
- Ray of exhaustion
- Ray of the python [EDIT]

What would you recommend? One of the above, or any alternative?

All 3.5 manuals published by WotC are kosher, plus Dragon Compendium (but no Dragon Magazine). The wand's final price should be between 5,000 and 10,000 gp. Also, high-optimization combos don't fit the spirit of this game.

Thank you in advance.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Hallo everybody, I am playing a low-level (currently lev. 7) artificer who spends quite some time in melee, but I'd like to start having also some offensive option to strike from a distance. Beside some blasting, I'd like to put some debuff (or save-or-suck, or no-save-just suck) in a wand, and I was considering one of the following spells:
- Glitterdust
- Blinding spittle
- Ray of dizziness
- Ray of exhaustion
- Ray of the python [EDIT]

What would you recommend? One of the above, or any alternative?

All 3.5 manuals published by WotC are kosher, plus Dragon Compendium (but no Dragon Magazine). The wand's final price should be between 5,000 and 10,000 gp. Also, high-optimization combos don't fit the spirit of this game.

By final price, do you mean base price or cost to craft? If the former, these two are out of the running (spell level 3 * min caster level 5 * 750 = 11250gp). If the latter, do you have any cost reductions other than simply that for crafting?

More generally, for wands you generally want spells that are low level and which don't require a high caster level or save DC. Given that, of those suggested I would say Blinding Spittle is the best choice, followed by Ray of Dizziness and Ray of the Python (if you can afford them)

Otherwise, spells that occurs to me:
Web (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm), as it's only 2nd level, entangles even on a successful save (always a fair debuff, and very nasty on melees) and duration means CL isn't important.
Impeding Stones (Cityscape, lv1): Arguably the budget version of the above.knocks enemies prone, and reduces them to half speed and gives an attack penalty while in the area even if they save.
Wall of Smoke (Spell Compendium, lv1): Offers battlefield concealment at a low level, and anyone who walks through it is nauseated - odds aren't great, and it's only for a round, but it's a very nasty status.
Obscuring Snow (Frostburn, lv2): Creates a radius of snow around you that reduces visibility to 5 feet (and even that has concealment), for hours per level. The trick here is to combine it with a wand of Snowsight (Frostburn, lv1), which makes one immune for the same duration. You (and if you're feeling generous, your buddies) can see, the enemy can't.


Also, high-optimization combos don't fit the spirit of this game.

That unfortunately doesn't say much at all - people's definitions of "high optimisation" differ wildly, even on this board. For example, I wouldn't consider the Obscuring Snow/Snowsight combo high op (not least because it's explicitly highlighted in the spell description), but I've met people who certainly would.

On a similar note, what feats do you have? In particular, metamagic feats - with the metamagic item infusion they open up a lot of potential options that wouldn't really exist with generic items.

[Kaleph]

So, first of all thanx for your long reply; I'm trying to answer the best I can.


By final price, do you mean base price or cost to craft? If the former, these two are out of the running (spell level 3 * min caster level 5 * 750 = 11250gp). If the latter, do you have any cost reductions other than simply that for crafting?I mean base price; I wasn't precise at all in my previous post, with some loan from my teammates I could craft also for 11250 gp, but isn't my my favored solution.


More generally, for wands you generally want spells that are low level and which don't require a high caster level or save DC. Given that, of those suggested I would say Blinding Spittle is the best choice, followed by Ray of Dizziness and Ray of the Python (if you can afford them)
The problem is I am melee driven and have only 12 dexterity; I used recently blinding spittle with a druid, and I was regularly missing when I wasn't shaped into a desmodu bat. Ray of the python is 2nd bard, and bard spellcasting is kosher as basis for magic items creation at my table (conversely no disciple-of-Thrym-summon-giants-style notorius bargain is allowed). So, this is the spell, I'm inclined to at the moment.


Otherwise, spells that occurs to me:
Web (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm), as it's only 2nd level, entangles even on a successful save (always a fair debuff, and very nasty on melees) and duration means CL isn't important.
Impeding Stones (Cityscape, lv1): Arguably the budget version of the above.knocks enemies prone, and reduces them to half speed and gives an attack penalty while in the area even if they save.
Wall of Smoke (Spell Compendium, lv1): Offers battlefield concealment at a low level, and anyone who walks through it is nauseated - odds aren't great, and it's only for a round, but it's a very nasty status.
Obscuring Snow (Frostburn, lv2): Creates a radius of snow around you that reduces visibility to 5 feet (and even that has concealment), for hours per level. The trick here is to combine it with a wand of Snowsight (Frostburn, lv1), which makes one immune for the same duration. You (and if you're feeling generous, your buddies) can see, the enemy can't.
Impeding stones is already planned for another wand; also, web is used already by two other spellcasters in the party. The obscuring snow trick isn't THAT much OP theoretically speaking, but it's not very party friendly (also considering that we are fighting from time to time in tight spaces) in the first place, and gives that "auto-win" feeling that tends to bring irritation to the table. As I've played the druid, I had this trick in my back poket, but never felt like using it. This should also provide some more insight regarding the optimization level I feel confortable with.


On a similar note, what feats do you have? In particular, metamagic feats - with the metamagic item infusion they open up a lot of potential options that wouldn't really exist with generic items.We'll turn level 8 in today's session (some 400 xp are missing, so we're already preparing in advance the details for the new level), and I'll get persist spell and split ray.
A certain amount of persistomancy is allowed, provided I don't exploit means to increase the amount of persisted spells (minor schema of metamagic item...), and I select no obviously ridiculous spells (like wraithstrike or unfettered heroism).

The other feats are extraordinary artisan, legendary artisan (about the latter I'm a bit skeptic, but it's taken now), iron will, hardened criminal (already agreed to be replaced at level 13 for somethin' else), power attack and extend spell.
Split ray is the main reason why most spells I'm considering are rays, actually. In addition, we have already strong bfc affecting medium/big areas and with some amount of debuff or damage cast onto it (sleet storm, web, stinking cloud, evard's black tentacles...) in the party, what we wanted to reinforce is the array of primarily debuffing spells with single target or small areas (this explains glitterdust).

[FauxKnee]

A level 8 artificer has access to an absolute boatload of spells. Here's the quick reference I use for early artificer access. (This might count as a "high-optimization combo" as described in your OP.) Since an artificer crafts with an effective CL of their class level + 2, you can craft all spells up to 9th level.


spell level
caster level
remarks


0
1
0s at CL 1 is standard


1
1
1s at CL 1 is standard


2
1



3
3



4
2



5
2



6
4



7
6



8
8



9
9
domain spells and cleric spells only


9
10




These methods are used for early spell access:

any cleric spell at CL = SL via ur priest
any domain spell at CL = SL via divine crusader
any 4th- or 5th-level spell at CL 2 via sublime chord and recaster/wyrm wizard (can qualify for sublime chord with just 1 caster level)
any 6th-level spell at CL 4 via sublime chord and recaster/wyrm wizard
any 7th-level spell at CL 6 via sublime chord and recaster/wyrm wizard
any 8th-level spell at CL 8 via sublime chord and recaster/wyrm wizard
any 9th-level spell at CL 10 (knowledge is based on the highest level you can cast, so standard tricks like sanctum spell work)
any 2nd-level spell at CL 2 via demonologist and recaster/wyrm wizard
any 3rd-level spell at CL 3 via demonologist and recaster/wyrm wizard
precocious apprentice allows 2nd-level at CL 1


If you're shooting for 5-10k for a wand price, you could pick any 2nd-level spell from any list.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

If you're shooting for 5-10k for a wand price, you could pick any 2nd-level spell from any list.

I think the issue is less a matter of knowing what kinds of spells are available than narrowing it down to particular candidates. And based on what OP has already said, many of those methods would I think go above the acceptable level of optimisation.


So, first of all thanx for your long reply; I'm trying to answer the best I can.

The problem is I am melee driven and have only 12 dexterity; I used recently blinding spittle with a druid, and I was regularly missing when I wasn't shaped into a desmodu bat.

Unfortunately that is a bit of a problem, since otherwise the parameters of spells suited for this (i.e. not very CL or DC dependent) tends to correlate with spells that require ranged touch attacks. Obviously blinding spittle is particularly bad in this case thanks to its hefty -4 penalty, but that's still potentially an issue with others if you're having to-hit difficulties.



The obscuring snow trick isn't THAT much OP theoretically speaking, but it's not very party friendly (also considering that we are fighting from time to time in tight spaces) in the first place, and gives that "auto-win" feeling that tends to bring irritation to the table. As I've played the druid, I had this trick in my back poket, but never felt like using it. This should also provide some more insight regarding the optimization level I feel confortable with.

Fair enough, and that does give a clearer idea, yes.

If you can get a decent BAB to make ray spells viable (persisted buffs are probably your best friend here - Divine Power is the most well known, but I'm partial to Recitation (Spell Compendium), as it also helps with your defences and benefits your allies.), they're probably your best bet. Most of the best candidates have already been highlighted, but other good rays include Ray of Weakness (no save, and the effects are untyped) and Ray of Stupidity (rather target-dependent, but devastating against either enemies who need their int like wizards, or with very low int like animals).

Some other non Ray spells that I've found that could be good candidates:

Stolen Breath (Spell Compendium, lv2): Sicken for a minute, no save or attack roll. Enemy can use a full-round action to clear it, but that's generally a good exchange for you.
Battering Ram (Spell Compendium, lv2): A bit of automatic damage, plus a Bull Rush with a flat +10 modifier that's still fairly good for your level.
Bigby's Warding Hand (PHBII, lv2): Enemy's speed is halved unless they make a strength check of 12+(your int) - better than CL or DC dependent, as you don't have to pay for it in caster or spell level costs.

[Kaleph]

I think the issue is less a matter of knowing what kinds of spells are available than narrowing it down to particular candidates. And based on what OP has already said, many of those methods would I think go above the acceptable level of optimisation.



Unfortunately that is a bit of a problem, since otherwise the parameters of spells suited for this (i.e. not very CL or DC dependent) tends to correlate with spells that require ranged touch attacks. Obviously blinding spittle is particularly bad in this case thanks to its hefty -4 penalty, but that's still potentially an issue with others if you're having to-hit difficulties.




Fair enough, and that does give a clearer idea, yes.

If you can get a decent BAB to make ray spells viable (persisted buffs are probably your best friend here - Divine Power is the most well known, but I'm partial to Recitation (Spell Compendium), as it also helps with your defences and benefits your allies.), they're probably your best bet. Most of the best candidates have already been highlighted, but other good rays include Ray of Weakness (no save, and the effects are untyped) and Ray of Stupidity (rather target-dependent, but devastating against either enemies who need their int like wizards, or with very low int like animals).

Some other non Ray spells that I've found that could be good candidates:

Stolen Breath (Spell Compendium, lv2): Sicken for a minute, no save or attack roll. Enemy can use a full-round action to clear it, but that's generally a good exchange for you.
Battering Ram (Spell Compendium, lv2): A bit of automatic damage, plus a Bull Rush with a flat +10 modifier that's still fairly good for your level.
Bigby's Warding Hand (PHBII, lv2): Enemy's speed is halved unless they make a strength check of 12+(your int) - better than CL or DC dependent, as you don't have to pay for it in caster or spell level costs.

I'll test these spells with spell storing item, and then decide if they're worth a wand. In the meantime I am persisting divine power and started crafting the wans of ray of the python, next session I'll probably use it. Then my next creation will be probably something w/ spell resistance: no (alternatively, how to deal with SR?).

[Troacctid]

I often like to use snake's swiftness on my wand-guys.

If wondrous items are okay, you could also consider a hammersphere, amber amulet of vermin, or storm gauntlets.