Wizard with access to Warlock spells

[follacchioso]

I'm playing in a custom campaign, where certain wizards are allowed to learn warlock spells as well.

We start from level 1, but will likely level up pretty quickly to level 2. Race is Changeling. The question is, how would you make it?

Looking at the list of spells that only warlocks can usually access, we have:
- Armor of Agathys
- Hellish Rebuke
- Eldrich Blast
- Arms of Hadar
- Hex


Looking at this list, I'm currently thinking of an abjurer, to take advantage of the combo Armor of Agathys / Abjurer's ward, plus Hellish Rebuke. Biggest doubt is whether I should take the Blade Ward cantrip - is this one of the rare cases where this cantrip is worthwhile?

[Chronos]

Hellish Rebuke is probably better on a wizard than on a warlock, because you can choose what spell slot to use on it, and not always blow half of your resources just to do a little extra damage... but I'd still consider it a low priority, because using your reaction on that means not using it on Shield, Absorb Elements, or Counterspell.

Armor of Agathys is great on a warlock, even better on a wizard, and best yet on an abjurer. Definitely take that. Temporary HP don't stack with each other, but your ward isn't temporary HP (despite working a lot like them), so they do stack, and damage to your ward still triggers the damage from AoA, without depleting it.

Blade Ward works with Armor of Agathys, on paper. But the problem is that if you make yourself too tough, and your only contribution to the battle comes when you get hit, the enemy is just going to ignore you to attack someone squishier. You need to be making yourself a target, which means doing threatening things with your action.

[DrKerosene]

Depends on how you intend to play.

If you want to be a gish and/or tank that deals damage with Armor Of Agathys by getting hit, and/or using Hellish Rebuke, then Blade Ward does increase how much mileage you get out of each casting of Armor Of Agathys (and the bonus from the Abjurer’s Ward). This is a play style where a lower AC works better, so Mage Armor isn’t as obviously as much of go-to spell as normal. Also has anti-synergy with some other concentration-free defensive spells like Mirror Image.

If you intend to be a more standard ranged Wizard, who is using Armor Of Agathys as a defensive boost and deterrent in combat, then Blade Ward probably won’t be worth knowing, unless you expect to deal with multiple gauntlets of ranged attackers.

[paladinn]

Eldritch Blast has been The defining ability of a warlock, back to 3.5. BTB, it's not very powerful as a basic attack cantrip. It becomes much more powerful with the Agonizing Blast incantation. Unless you're going to give wizards access to incantations, you'd be just as good using firebolt (except that force is much less-resisted then fire).

I've been mulling creating a version that is a combination of EB and Magic Missile. It can be cast as a cantrip for 1d6 or as a leveled spell for 1d8/spell slot.

[DrKerosene]

Eldritch Blast has been The defining ability of a warlock, back to 3.5. BTB, it's not very powerful as a basic attack cantrip. It becomes much more powerful with the Agonizing Blast incantation. Unless you're going to give wizards access to incantations, you'd be just as good using firebolt (except that force is much less-resisted then fire).

I do think that using the spell Hex makes Eldritch Blast worth considering, instead of Firebolt+Magic Missile or Firebolt+Scorching Ray, etc.

If you’re casting a bunch of Scorching Rays or Eldritch Blasts, the latter doesn’t take up multiple 2nd level spell slots if you keep doing the same thing for several rounds in a row until a fat boss is dead.

Average damage of a first level Magic Missile is 10.5, while a single Eldritch Blast hitting with Hex averages 9 damage, and while both deal force damage only Eldritch Blast has a chance for Critical Hits. Also Hex lasts multiple rounds, which is more spell-slot efficient. Starting at level 5 you should be able to deal comparable damage to spamming Magic Missile against anything that doesn’t have a really high AC. Though Magic Missile does ignore partial cover bonuses, and disadvantage due to being prone/in melee. Using one or more Magic Missiles and following up with Firebolt spam still seems to fall behind Eldritch Blast+Hex as time goes on.

Hex is also a great spell for manipulating social encounters so the Party face succeeds, or the drunk Barbarian wins the wrestling match, etc. If limited spells known and utility is a factor too.

Honestly, without ribbon abilities, I’d pick vanilla Eldritch Blast over Firebolt nine times out of ten anyways.

[paladinn]

I do think that using the spell Hex makes Eldritch Blast worth considering, instead of Firebolt+Magic Missile or Firebolt+Scorching Ray, etc.

If you’re casting a bunch of Scorching Rays or Eldritch Blasts, the latter doesn’t take up multiple 2nd level spell slots if you keep doing the same thing for several rounds in a row until a fat boss is dead.

Average damage of a first level Magic Missile is 10.5, while a single Eldritch Blast hitting with Hex averages 9 damage, and while both deal force damage only Eldritch Blast has a chance for Critical Hits. Also Hex lasts multiple rounds, which is more spell-slot efficient. Starting at level 5 you should be able to deal comparable damage to spamming Magic Missile against anything that doesn’t have a really high AC. Though Magic Missile does ignore partial cover bonuses, and disadvantage due to being prone/in melee. Using one or more Magic Missiles and following up with Firebolt spam still seems to fall behind Eldritch Blast+Hex as time goes on.

Hex is also a great spell for manipulating social encounters so the Party face succeeds, or the drunk Barbarian wins the wrestling match, etc. If limited spells known and utility is a factor too.

Honestly, without ribbon abilities, I’d pick vanilla Eldritch Blast over Firebolt nine times out of ten anyways.

That assumes the wizard in question has access to both EB and Hex. I'm shooting for something that would be self-contained. Kinda of a go-to spell. It would normally be a cantrip, and low-powered, but could be cast as a spell if needed. So you're an illusionist, but you have something you Really need to just blast. If you have Mage Bolt (or whatever) as a cantrip, you can burn a level 5 slot if you absolutely have to

[Wildarm]

I'm playing in a custom campaign, where certain wizards are allowed to learn warlock spells as well.

We start from level 1, but will likely level up pretty quickly to level 2. Race is Changeling. The question is, how would you make it?

Looking at the list of spells that only warlocks can usually access, we have:
- Armor of Agathys
- Hellish Rebuke
- Eldrich Blast
- Arms of Hadar
- Hex


Looking at this list, I'm currently thinking of an abjurer, to take advantage of the combo Armor of Agathys / Abjurer's ward, plus Hellish Rebuke. Biggest doubt is whether I should take the Blade Ward cantrip - is this one of the rare cases where this cantrip is worthwhile?

Fighter 1/Aburer X or Barb 1/Abjurer X with access to Armor of Agathys would be a very potent Gish character. Booming blade keeps your damage relevant and you can freely wade into melee for a few rounds till your ward and/or AoA is depleted. Just remember you are still primarily a d6 HD character. Crits and swarms can and will kill you. Starting as V Human with Lucky can help a lot with RNG like that. Sentinel would be another option to force foes to face you.

[Warlush]

You're only 2nd level. Try blade ward out for a level or two and swap it out uf you don't like it.

[Xihirli]

If their DM lets them swap out cantrips.

[follacchioso]

Thanks. These are valid points, especially about being seen as a menace in combat.

Well this character is a changeling with the aspect of a gentle old lady (rolled 6 to STR). I'm going to interpret her as a witch - or a changeling who pretends to be a witch.

So this is quite the opposite of menacing.. Yet I may come up with some tricks, using the changeling abilities. I'll invest in deception and persuasion.

This character will also be in a discord play by Post server, where sometimes there are pvp fights, so I'm not too worried about being undervaluated by the other players.

[WaroftheCrans]

Hellish Rebuke will nearly always be a worse use of a reaction than shield.

Eldritch blast should replace firebolt for 2 reasons: 1) Force Damage. Its rarely resisted. 2) The chances of doing no damage on a turn is significantly less, because 4 hit chances. (Also means less likely to do max damage, but hey)

Arms of Hadar is bad. Don't use it. Stick with Chromatic Orb or Catapult or something like that.

Armor Of Agathys might just be the best scaling spell in the game. It's very nice, even just for the temp hp.

Hex is nice and all, but you'll have better uses for concentration when you get to higher levels. Speaking of higher levels, lets start talking about those right now.

2nd level-
Enthrall - Yeahhhh, very situational, and unless you just come across a scroll of it, I wouldn't copy it down. How often do you want someone to only be able to see you?

3rd level-
Hunger of Hadar - Not bad at third level, but it doesn't scale at all. Pretty good control however, and can work to keep enemies down.

4th level-
Shadow of Moil - Great if you're trying close range stuff, still decent at range. Works with AofA, and gives you free advantage, and enemies disadvantage to hit you.

5th level -
Error 404 - The spells you requested don't seem to exist.

6th level -
Conjure Fey - Honestly seems like a bad idea to me, but some speak highly of it.

7th level-
Error 404 - The spells you requested don't seem to exist.

8th level-
Glibness - You're actually good at lying and persuading now. Slap a minimum of 15 for the die roll on any Charisma Check. The bard is still better at it. Magic still can't detect you lying however.

9th level-
Error 404 - The spells you requested don't seem to exist.

All in all, there are maybe 4 or 5 spells that you'd want to poach: AofA, Eldritch Blast, Shadow of Moil, Hex and maybe Hunger of Hadar.

If you're sacrificing anything to get access to these spells, I'd say don't.

[JNAProductions]

Glibness doesn't rely on casting stat. It's just floor 15 on all Charisma checks.

Nothing I saw in the OP indicates that it'd change to Int.

[WaroftheCrans]

Glibness doesn't rely on casting stat. It's just floor 15 on all Charisma checks.

Nothing I saw in the OP indicates that it'd change to Int.

Oh woops, my bad. Was remembering that it worked for checks with my casting ability like Counterspell and Dispel Magic. I'll change that. Thanks for the catch.

[JNAProductions]

Oh woops, my bad. Was remembering that it worked for checks with my casting ability like Counterspell and Dispel Magic. I'll change that. Thanks for the catch.

Well, only Charisma casters get it, normally, so that's why.

But no biggie! Easy to make mistakes like that.

[MaxWilson]

6th level -
Conjure Fey - Honestly seems like a bad idea to me, but some speak highly of it.

On a Wizard instead of a Warlock it's excellent. Besides Planar Binding combos (Korreds and Hag Covens for spells, Giant Apes to add ranged firepower), even a regular Annis Hag is a huge DPR upgrade over your regular Earth Elementals. She's low on HP but your party healer shouldn't have trouble making up the difference, since she's got non-magical bweapon resistance anyway. It's sort of like having another Barbarian in the party except that she's malevolent and maybe eats children and she has a ~70 HP opportunity attack! (Some barbs may be malevolent child-eaters but I'm pretty sure none of them have Crushing Hug opportunity attacks.)

[follacchioso]

Thanks all.

Glibness is amazing on Bards - I use it in combination with Telekinesis, with an high level character of mine. You can't beat a high level Lore Bard on a Ability check, no matter who you are.

Conjure Fey is a good idea - Annis Hag would be a great Summon for my lady witch. Will need to find a solution for that child-eating habit, but I'm not worried about that.

Overall I think this will be a decent character for the first levels, and I don't expect to play to higher levels. The Abjurer's ward should keep her safe through the adventure, and few people will dare hit a poor old lady.