What is the point of Monk weapons?

[An Enemy Spy]

It seems like the Monk's Unarmed Strike is objectively better than any weapon that only Monks have access to(not taking into account ones with strong magic properties anyway). Sure, some of them give you a bonus to doing certain moves like disarming or tripping, but unless your whole playstyle is built on those specific moves, they seem completely inferior to using no weapons at all.

[Gavinfoxx]

Useful magical enchantments.

[RSGA]

Also damage type options if you're tied up in feats, and being able to dual wield if you want to do that.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Shurikens give the monk ranged combat potential.

Yeah, I've got nothing. In core-only, special monk weapons are a source of DR-penetration and magic weapon effects since Amulet of Mighty Fists is stupidly overpriced. Outside core, a Necklace of Natural Attacks renders the Sai et al completely moot. All the designers had to do was say that special monk weapons deal damage equal to your Unarmed Strike and they'd suddenly be great, but nope. No reason to ever use them.

[Saintheart]

It seems like the Monk's Unarmed Strike is objectively better than any weapon that only Monks have access to(not taking into account ones with strong magic properties anyway). Sure, some of them give you a bonus to doing certain moves like disarming or tripping, but unless your whole playstyle is built on those specific moves, they seem completely inferior to using no weapons at all.

At least with the quarterstaff you can get one extra attack in a flurry, albeit it comes to a -4/-4/-4 at first level and still wears a -2 from TWF throughout.

Chaos Monk out of Dragon magazine combined with a throwing weapon allows you to get more attacks on a flurry than you normally would.

But yeah, for the most part you're only using monk weapons for style points or because you're building towards a particular strategy. On their own they barely if ever make sense; it takes a feat or a weapon quality to even channel your ki strikes or stunning attacks through them, which is just sad.

[Rhyltran]

Other than the answers given the scorpion kama is pretty good.

[the_tick_rules]

Useful magical enchantments.

I never thought of that, you could hold a weapon with all the defensive enchantments and use your other hand or legs for the strikes, potential. would holding a quarter staff count as holding both ends of the weapon? I been here before and you need two defensive enchanted weapons for maximum efficiency, you can only use one end a round but you are still holding them.

[Esprit15]

I never thought of that, you could hold a weapon with all the defensive enchantments and use your other hand or legs for the strikes, potential. would holding a quarter staff count as holding both ends of the weapon? I been here before and you need two defensive enchanted weapons for maximum efficiency, you can only use one end a round but you are still holding them.

Hm, that's actually a good idea, never thought of that.

[FaerieGodfather]

All the designers had to do was say that special monk weapons deal damage equal to your Unarmed Strike and they'd suddenly be great, but nope. No reason to ever use them.

Honestly... all weapons should deal damage equal to Monk's Unarmed Strike, as a Monk level equal to their BAB, only maybe adjusting for weapon size. It would solve a lot of problems.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Yeah there's a couple of edge cases (iaijutsu focus, for instance, requires drawing a weapon), but aside from those there's little reason to use anything other than unarmed strikes.

Iaijutsu focus requires drawing a weapon.

Ranged attacks without the Throwing enhancement on your fists.

And the stuff others have mentioned.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm guessing you were thinking solely of level 20 when you wrote that post? At levels 1-7, monk weapons go up to 1d10 whereas unarmed strike is 1d8; and until level 11 they're tied.

Other options include reach, crit range, and cheaper access to materials and enchantments.

[Fizban]

So you don't have to punch things that are on fire, made of acid, etc. Some monsters have retaliation damage that only affects things that touch them rather than any melee attack, dealing damage to people that use natural weapons, grapples, or indeed unarmed strikes.

Admittedly, this is an incredibly spotty coverage. Oozes are actually better fought with unarmed strikes, since they won't instantly dissolve but it takes a full round to officially trigger the damage. Most later monsters and spells will always punish any melee attack because Optimization. But there is at least the Fire Elemental in core, which you would rather hit with a stick than set yourself on fire.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Useful magical enchantments.Not...really. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial/page25&p=15474863#post15474863)

Seriously, given how easy and cheap it is to get a +30 unarmed strike...

Though I guess there're enhancements that unarmed strikes don't account for, but most of those can't be put on other monk weapons anyway.

[the_tick_rules]

Hm, that's actually a good idea, never thought of that.

Other character builds use the spikes on spiked armor and shields for that a lot. I never thought of this method for monks. Now I need to figure out a way for them to get armor and shield enchantments like heavily fortified and stuff since wearing armor cuts into their abilities a lot.

[InvisibleBison]

Other character builds use the spikes on spiked armor and shields for that a lot. I never thought of this method for monks. Now I need to figure out a way for them to get armor and shield enchantments like heavily fortified and stuff since wearing armor cuts into their abilities a lot.

I'm pretty sure you can put armor enchantments on regular clothing.

[Biggus]

I'm guessing you were thinking solely of level 20 when you wrote that post? At levels 1-7, monk weapons go up to 1d10 whereas unarmed strike is 1d8; and until level 11 they're tied.


Are you talking about the heavy crossbow?

[Kurald Galain]

Are you talking about the heavy crossbow?

Sansetsukon, actually.

[Bohandas]

Monk weapons can be made out of silver or cold iron. Your monk's fists can't (well, maybe if they're a warforged)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Monk weapons can be made out of silver or cold iron. Your monk's fists can't (well, maybe if they're a warforged)Metalline is an option.

[Ramza00]

Shurikens give the monk ranged combat potential.

Yeah, I've got nothing. In core-only, special monk weapons are a source of DR-penetration and magic weapon effects since Amulet of Mighty Fists is stupidly overpriced. Outside core, a Necklace of Natural Attacks renders the Sai et al completely moot. All the designers had to do was say that special monk weapons deal damage equal to your Unarmed Strike and they'd suddenly be great, but nope. No reason to ever use them.

*Nods*

Scorpion Kama for 6302 gp. 3000 gp to craft but you need to supply a masterwork Kama which costs 302 gp.
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20070223a

Oh since the Kama is a +1 weapon in its own right, virtually the cost is 4000 gp extra. Kama has no special weapon abilities besides slashing, 20x2, special monk weapon, light weapon, can trip, can drop if you fail the trip. I bring up the other special abilities for 1/2 of the monk weapons can be reflavored using the Kama base but flavor wise it is a sai, or a dagger, or a hand axe and so on.

———

But another thing is you can use wands with wandsheaths in your weapons and then cast monk buffing spells like wraithstrike 👻 or blood wind 💨 and then use your unarmed strikes with your feet. I kick the air and suddenly the air smashes the opponent 20 feet away.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I have a "monk build" with a melee range of "yes," and I've fluffed it as "condensed shockwaves coming from his fists, feet, etc." Of course, that "monk build" only has two levels of monk, so...

[Maat Mons]

If you're pulling from sufficiently obscure sources, emmide (Holy Order of Stars, p31) is a special Monk weapon that's actually good.



I don't think you can enchant clothing as armor. You can cast Magic Vestment on clothing, but that's it as far as I know.

You can add armor special abilities to Bracers of Armor, as per Arms and Equipment Guide. And Draconomicon has Gemstone of Fortification, if you're looking for immunity to critical hits specifically.

[Troacctid]

Monk weapons can add 1.5x Str to damage when wielded in two hands, and can give you advantages when using them to trip or disarm enemies. Some of them can be thrown, allowing you to do a flurry of blows at range. Theoretically, they could also have reach, although none of the standard monk weapons do. Magic weapon properties are easier and cheaper to apply to actual weapons (especially shurikens), and they can also be made with weapon templates and special materials.

[Fizban]

Okay, cold iron DR can show up at 1st level, or never show up at all. Metalline costs a minimum of +18,000gp, more than half of WBL until 9th and never a small chunk of change. You can buy a set of +1 copies of of all the materials metalline covers for less than something with Metalline on it, so it's barely a benefit until you add an alignment property, pushing the price to a minimum of 32,000 (at which point you just buy one of the +3's that does everything instead).

A cold iron kama is 4gp, literally affordable with starting gold. Silver appears rarely enough at 1st that I'm not aware of it, but a silver kama is 22gp. So, does DR make monk weapons significant for a minimum of the first 8 levels of the game? Yes, it's not even a comparison.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could always wear silver, cold iron, or adamantine ward cestuses. Cesti? Or boots and/or gauntlets.

[Endarire]

Quarterstaves let you double hand them for extra blunt damage.

[Biggus]

Sansetsukon, actually.

Never heard of it, what book is it in?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Never heard of it, what book is it in?I'm assuming the three-sectioned staff? https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?384287-A-three-section-post

[Biggus]

I'm assuming the three-sectioned staff? https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?384287-A-three-section-post

Thank you. The link in that thread is to the PF SRD, do you know if it exists in 3.5?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Thank you. The link in that thread is to the PF SRD, do you know if it exists in 3.5?There's a version of it in Oriental Adventures. Pages 72 and 74. 1d8 x3, two-handed monk weapon.

[Gruftzwerg]

They are niche. Which means, in most builds you will just pass on them for the most or entire time. But that doesn't mean that they are totally useless. As said they have their niches.

1. Taking advantage of "holding" a weapon
As other have pointed out, you can get additional bonuses due to holding a magical weapon with that kind of specific bonuses.
Other thing is, that many of the monk weapons come with (nonmagical) "special weapon properties" that can be abused in your unarmed attack routine for special chases. Be it bonus to trip/disarm and iirc there are monk reach weapons too somewhere..^^ These things can be abused in certain scenarios or with specialized builds.

2. Dipping Monk
Not every Monk build goes for full unarmed progress. The average difference between 1d6 and 2d10 is not that great (unless optimized specifically for it). 1d6 ~ 3.5 dmg and 2d10 ~11 dmg = ~7.5 dmg difference
You can go for other dmg boosts (regular ubercharger / crit build /...) and thus avoid unarmed strike (or us it as fall back strategy if disarmed) and just use monk weapons.

3. Flurry / TWF silliness
Wile you have to deal with 3/4 BAB and TWF (feat line) adds another -2 penalty, you can makes builds to compensate that. Get BAB 16+ (dipping or UMD) and the 2 extra flurry attacks at max bab to get up to 9 attacks pre epic and up to 12 attacks with Perfect Two Weapon Fighting.

4. Shuriken are the most overpowered weapons in the game, so stop bragging about monk weapons ;)

[the_tick_rules]

what about shuriken makes them that powerful?

[Saintheart]

what about shuriken makes them that powerful?

Have a look back here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?131867-Shuriken-what-are-they-good-for).

[Telonius]

Under certain circumstances, they're useful for punching through DR and Regeneration.

[Gruftzwerg]

what about shuriken makes them that powerful?

1)
here is another source (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=10419.0)for abuse

It's mostly about the fact that they count as ammunition for crafting purposes added with the special rule to craft lesser stacks of certain items. Magical Ammunition is normally crafted in stacks of 50 IIRC and thus giving you the option to craft them for 1/50 of the price for a single one. This can be abused for secondary situational buffs that you wouldn't otherwise put on your main weapon (due to limited capacity/money).
This ends in a +10 Shuriken as main weapon (+5 bonus, +1 Morphing and +4 of other enhancements) for only 1/50th of the original price for a +10 weapon and can be used as any weapon.
There are many options to abuse this (Spellstoring, Warning, Greather Dispelling...).
Just have a look at the link for some inspiration.

2)
D2 Crusader: Since Shuriken do d2 dmg, they can be abused with Crusader to do infinite dmg.

I even have made a decent Shuriken ubercharger build (see signature) if you are interested.

[Biggus]

There's a version of it in Oriental Adventures. Pages 72 and 74. 1d8 x3, two-handed monk weapon.

Ah OK, so in PF it's a significant improvement to damage at low levels, in D&D only at very low levels and you have to spend a feat on it. I guess Kurald Galain was talking about the PF version then...

[animewatcha]

If you're pulling from sufficiently obscure sources, emmide (Holy Order of Stars, p31) is a special Monk weapon that's actually good.


small 1d4/1d4
medium 1d6/1d6
cost 1stl ( I can't rmember currency conversion )

For anyone wanting to know about the emmide. It's an exotic weapon with oddities for exotic weapons. If you are not proficient in it ( exotic weapon ), then it functions like a quarterstaff. If you have proficiency, then double weapon + trip + freely interchangeable reach as wish + adjacent attack. If monk, then count as special monk weapon so flurry, etc.

Also main order that uses these worship Majere and monks can multiclass freely with cleric of Majere.

If you go the Stunning fist route with stunning master, grab pharaoh's fist. Original stunning fist requires you to damage your target and also has the caveats of crit-immunity, oozes, etc. Going by the wording, Pharaoh's fist only requires a successful strike ( attack roll ). Also it bypasses crit-immunity and things, but not outright stun immunity or the fort-save rules for say undead.

Thanks to stunning master feat, you can combine the above with special monk weapons. Borrow the spectral dagger enchantment ( 6k ) and put it on the monk weapon of your choice. If you choose shuriken, you got 50 of them for the 6k plus or minus modifiers-as-appropriate. This means touch attacks. So a thrown shuriken ( costs gp overall, but when used right and enough luck and be well worth it ) potentially stuns a small group of mobs via touch AC. Can grab ki straps for 5k to up the DC by 2. This combo is also useable via decisive strike which can up the DC by another 2.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Monk weapons can be made out of silver or cold iron. Your monk's fists can't (well, maybe if they're a warforged)

A gauntlet (regular, not spiked) is still an unarmed strike. My monks wear cold iron and silver gauntlets (and sometimes switch to adamantine eventually) to cover that. You lose the ability to deal nonlethal damage w/o an attack penalty with your hands, but you can still unarmed strike w/ feet, knees, elbows, head, etc.. for those situations.

Of course, it's nice when the DM allows boots/greaves to function like gauntlets for your kick-specific unarmed striking needs (such as Snap Kick) so you can cover material DR there, too. But as far as I know, that's purely houserule and there are no such items in the rules. But gauntlets are 100% RAW, and I'd never play a Monk in a game where the DM stole that option from me.

[Eladrinblade]

A rogue that dips monk (aka a ninja) can make sneak attack flurries with them. Actually shuriken are the best weapon for sneak attacks; flurry/twf/rapid shot, halfling bonuses, count as ammunition.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

A rogue that dips monk (aka a ninja) can make sneak attack flurries with them. Actually shuriken are the best weapon for sneak attacks; flurry/twf/rapid shot, halfling bonuses, count as ammunition.

On that note, one of the edge cases I've used before (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24080559&postcount=51) is that Halfling Monks can trade FoB for Skirmish, but only with Monk special weapons. I went with sai instead of shurikens to take advantage of Iaijutsu Focus (which requires a melee weapon, even if the attack is ranged). But yeah, a Halfling Monk/Rogue Swift Ambusher with Iaijutsu Focus makes for a terrifying amount of bonus damage if you can flat-foot your opponents reliably, and (arguably) if you're using TWF at least one of the weapons can't be unarmed strikes - even if you can get the Throwing enhancement onto your unarmed strikes to take advantage of the bonus SA from the Halfling Rogue RSL.