Swordsage Feats

[RNightstalker]

Disclaimer: not looking for "why not be a warblade" or "those are garbage feats", etc.

So I'm working on a full 20-level progression of Swordsage and I'm having trouble fleshing out the feats. I plan on doing mostly Diamond Mind maneuvers and wielding a bastard-katana sword.

Right now I've got:
L1-Adaptive Style, H1-Quickdraw
L3-Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
L6-Blade Meditation
L9-Improved Initiative
L12-Discipline (OA)
L15-Quick Reconnoiter
L18-??

Thanks playground!

[Saintheart]

You can put off EWP until later in the build if that helps - or even forget it altogether. EWP is really only needed if you really want to go sword-and-board or two-weapon fighting; katana works just fine with two hands and I can't remember any Swordsage features that particularly force you to wield one-handed. Power Attack will give you much more bang for your buck even at that low level.

Discipline is a very low-value feat, particularly so that far along. If you're really wanting to push Concentration, then just take Skill Focus in it and get the +3; Diamond Mind school has the Moment of X line that basically turns Concentration into your saving throw, so Discipline's +1 to Will saves really isn't needed.

Quickdraw can also be ditched if you have MIC access; the Least Crystal of Return does the same thing for about 300 gp and no feat slot loss.

Blade Meditation is also low value. It doesn't add +1 to all weapon damage rolls, it adds +1 to Strike maneuvers with Diamond Mind only, which is nice, but also not worth a feat slot. Again, a martial discipline weapon gets you better for no feat slot.

Have you got an idea for what fighting style you're looking to push?

(Oh, and self-promotion: if you want a list of katana-specific stuff, try here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?598167-A-Bar-Sinister-Options-for-Players-and-DMs-using-the-Bastard-Sword-or-Katana).

[Nifft]

Disclaimer: not looking for "why not be a warblade" or "those are garbage feats", etc.

So I'm working on a full 20-level progression of Swordsage and I'm having trouble fleshing out the feats. I plan on doing mostly Diamond Mind maneuvers and wielding a bastard-katana sword.

Right now I've got:
L1-Adaptive Style, H1-Quickdraw
L3-Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
L6-Blade Meditation
L9-Improved Initiative
L12-Discipline (OA)
L15-Quick Reconnoiter
L18-??

Thanks playground!

Quick Draw requires BAB +1 -- you can't take it at level 1. (You could take Improved Initiative instead.)

I agree with Saintheart about de-prioritizing Exotic Weapon Proficiency and not taking Blade Meditation.

PHB2 had some interesting feats around Combat Focus [Combat Form], which required Wisdom and look pretty decent for a Swordsage.

Power Attack + Leap Attack are a well-known and powerful combination; with Desert Wind Strikes that allow you to charge through the air, and Tiger Claw Strikes which involve explicit Jump checks, it's a particularly potent combo on a Swordsage.

Diamond Mind's special feats include Unnerving Calm, which might fit your concept.

[Esprit15]

If you’re going Diamond Mind, I highly recommend Steady Concentration (Races of Stone, p144) for always taking 10 on concentration checks. Diamond Mind is one of the few disciplines to make heavy use of its tied skill, so best to always have them work. Combined with skills scaling faster than save DC’s and being easier to boost, you’ll be dishing out reliable damage and rarely failing your saving throws.

[RNightstalker]

If you’re going Diamond Mind, I highly recommend Steady Concentration (Races of Stone, p144) for always taking 10 on concentration checks. Diamond Mind is one of the few disciplines to make heavy use of its tied skill, so best to always have them work. Combined with skills scaling faster than save DC’s and being easier to boost, you’ll be dishing out reliable damage and rarely failing your saving throws.

Good pull! I'll have to incorporate that.


Quick Draw requires BAB +1 -- you can't take it at level 1. (You could take Improved Initiative instead.)

I agree with Saintheart about de-prioritizing Exotic Weapon Proficiency and not taking Blade Meditation.

PHB2 had some interesting feats around Combat Focus [Combat Form], which required Wisdom and look pretty decent for a Swordsage.

Power Attack + Leap Attack are a well-known and powerful combination; with Desert Wind Strikes that allow you to charge through the air, and Tiger Claw Strikes which involve explicit Jump checks, it's a particularly potent combo on a Swordsage.

Diamond Mind's special feats include Unnerving Calm, which might fit your concept.

I thought I was doing well for needing to put off EWP for that same reason, I can probably swap those two. I think you guys are right and I'll probably dump the EWP, though the main thing that I wanted Blade Meditation for was the Concentration bonus; it fits the character.

Speaking of fitting the character, after taking another look at the Combat Form feats, I think Focus and Vigor will do well. I'd like to do Combat Strike as well, but I won't have the BAB for it. After a second look, Unnerving Calm will fit this character.

I'm not planning on any tiger claw maneuvers for this build, I've got another Hackmaster build that's focused on number of attacks I'm working those into. I'm filling out the maneuvers here with Desert Wind and Stone Mountain. I'm actually thinking of trying this character in a PBP game, as I've never done that format before, and I'd like to try it out.


You can put off EWP until later in the build if that helps - or even forget it altogether. EWP is really only needed if you really want to go sword-and-board or two-weapon fighting; katana works just fine with two hands and I can't remember any Swordsage features that particularly force you to wield one-handed. Power Attack will give you much more bang for your buck even at that low level.

Discipline is a very low-value feat, particularly so that far along. If you're really wanting to push Concentration, then just take Skill Focus in it and get the +3; Diamond Mind school has the Moment of X line that basically turns Concentration into your saving throw, so Discipline's +1 to Will saves really isn't needed.

Quickdraw can also be ditched if you have MIC access; the Least Crystal of Return does the same thing for about 300 gp and no feat slot loss.

Blade Meditation is also low value. It doesn't add +1 to all weapon damage rolls, it adds +1 to Strike maneuvers with Diamond Mind only, which is nice, but also not worth a feat slot. Again, a martial discipline weapon gets you better for no feat slot.

Have you got an idea for what fighting style you're looking to push?

(Oh, and self-promotion: if you want a list of katana-specific stuff, try here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?598167-A-Bar-Sinister-Options-for-Players-and-DMs-using-the-Bastard-Sword-or-Katana).

Good thinking with the Skill Focus. The Moment of X line is one of the main reasons I like the Diamond Mind discipline.
As for "fighting style", planning on near-maxing initiative, it'd be one of those to prep the way for a tank, help them cleave, etc. Not getting a ranged vibe for this character either...more on that later. Well more on that now. This reply has taken over two hours to type up because I've been researching and applying a lot of the suggestions and your katana thread is awesome! And if it's even possible, there's a link in it with even more awesome with the katana thrower! I don't know how he didn't think to want a Quiver of Ehlonna with that build, but I'll have to try that sometime!

So updated build:
Trait: Focused
Flaws: Meager Fortitude->Improved Initiative, Shaky->Power Attack
L1-Adaptive Style, H1-Skill Focus: Concentration
L3-Unnerving Calm
L6-Blind-Fight
L9-Steadfast Concentration
L12-Combat Focus
L15-Combat Vigor
L18-Combat Awareness

[RSGA]

One other thing you might consider is looking into some way to become a Psionic creature. Without the Psionic Meditation feat, it's essentially a once per combat take 15 on a concentrate roll by expending your Psionic Focus, which is nothing to sneeze at.

[RNightstalker]

One other thing you might consider is looking into some way to become a Psionic creature. Without the Psionic Meditation feat, it's essentially a once per combat take 15 on a concentrate roll by expending your Psionic Focus, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Psionics are something I've looked into very little, aside for trying to make a Lamont Cranston/The Shadow type character. With Steadfast Concentration, do I even need to dabble into that for this build?

[RSGA]

Psionics are something I've looked into very little, aside for trying to make a Lamont Cranston/The Shadow type character. With Steadfast Concentration, do I even need to dabble into that for this build?

It would honestly be an either or thing unless you can get one of the non-race, non-feat ways of getting to be psionic. Steadfast Concentration is much more reliable, you can always use it. Psionic Focus, on the other hand, is more powerful when it's available. +5 is nothing to sneeze at, after all.

[RNightstalker]

It would honestly be an either or thing unless you can get one of the non-race, non-feat ways of getting to be psionic. Steadfast Concentration is much more reliable, you can always use it. Psionic Focus, on the other hand, is more powerful when it's available. +5 is nothing to sneeze at, after all.

After inheriting a game with a Clericzilla aided by a Persistomancer, I don't mind NOT breaking the game:cool: