Al Descent into Avernus - hook? (spoilers)

[da newt]

rant to follow:

I've been playing AL's Descent into Avernus for a while now (lvl 10), and it's narrative is really starting to bother me.

Why would any PC with a lick of common sense agree to travel into Avernus (where there are millions of devils and no allies) with a 12 yr old girl (who refuses to help them in any way) to try to rescue a few failed hero's and turn (or defeat) the fallen angle who was powerful enough become an arch devil and take over the entire plane and rule all of it's Devils?

Dara the "celestial chosen one" brat repeatedly sends the party of pawns out on deadly rescue missions while she lounges in camp. If you do succeed in recovering an "ally" they join the spoiled one in camp to lounge about while you are sent back out to fetch the next "ally." We have rescued a cowardly Elf, a disgraced Unicorn, a Dwarf, a Silver Dragon etc - but not a one of these goobers lifts a finger to help us.

We were told we were headed into Avernus to rescue the people of some city that got sucked from the material plane, but it hasn't come up at all ...

WTF is the party trying to accomplish - destroy a layer of hell? Defeat an Arch Devil so that the next most powerful Devil gets a chance to rule? What's the point?

The story is all over the place and has plot holes galore. What is the motivation for any mortal band of 4-7 to try to take on all the devils of Avernus? I keep playing because it's better than not playing, but I have no more foxes to give to this plot, and just follow the path to the next combat blindly ...

Seriously - what am I missing? Does this story have a plot?

[elyktsorb]

Hey! I'm currently lvl 5 in Descent into Avernus (as a group not part of AL (and as Tortle Barbarian/Monk) And the reason we went to Avernus is because one of our party members is from the city that got sucked into Avernus, and we've all come together to help him and the people. My character specifically (after killing one of the demon worshiping people in baldurs gate, forgot their names) pledged to help his people!

Anyway, when we got went into Avernus we came out straight into the city!

I've never read the module for the game but I know our DM is making sure things go well for us (after all we started off the game at 2nd lvl) but quite frankly have no idea what your plot is since it sounds super different from the one I'm doing (minus the whole city in hell thing)

[Veldrenor]

rant to follow:

I've been playing AL's Descent into Avernus for a while now (lvl 10), and it's narrative is really starting to bother me.

Why would any PC with a lick of common sense agree to travel into Avernus (where there are millions of devils and no allies) with a 12 yr old girl (who refuses to help them in any way) to try to rescue a few failed hero's and turn (or defeat) the fallen angle who was powerful enough become an arch devil and take over the entire plane and rule all of it's Devils?
You’re assuming that PCs have common sense. They don’t. People with common sense don’t become adventurers. People with common sense remain farmers, or merchants, or anyone whose expected duties don’t include navigating ancient death-traps and killing giant, magic, flying, fire-spewing lizards.



Dara the "celestial chosen one" brat repeatedly sends the party of pawns out on deadly rescue missions while she lounges in camp. If you do succeed in recovering an "ally" they join the spoiled one in camp to lounge about while you are sent back out to fetch the next "ally." We have rescued a cowardly Elf, a disgraced Unicorn, a Dwarf, a Silver Dragon etc - but not a one of these goobers lifts a finger to help us.
They haven’t helped you yet, doesn’t mean they never will. Have you ever played Dragon Age: Origins? All through the game you’re helping people, making allies, and they thank you but don’t actually do anything. Until the final battle, that is, at which point they provide troops and resources and allow you to complete your ultimate goal.



We were told we were headed into Avernus to rescue the people of some city that got sucked from the material plane, but it hasn't come up at all ...

WTF is the party trying to accomplish - destroy a layer of hell? Defeat an Arch Devil so that the next most powerful Devil gets a chance to rule? What's the point?
That could be on the DM, but it could also be on the players. It’s AL, there are a number of players who don’t care about anything that doesn’t give XP or loot. There are players who basically do the TTRPG equivalent of mashing spacebar to skip the cutscene. If DMs get used to players who want that kind of experience, that’s the experience they provide. Next time you’re in camp, ask. Ask Dara how the disgraced Unicorn will help you save the city of Elturel. Ask what the silver dragon is going to do. If you care about the bigger picture, show the DM that you care about the bigger picture. Maybe that won’t change anything. Or maybe the DM will start engaging with you because you're engaging with them.



The story is all over the place and has plot holes galore. What is the motivation for any mortal band of 4-7 to try to take on all the devils of Avernus?

Depends on the PC.

Maybe you’re a psychopath who’s happy to be someplace where you can kill anyone and anything you want and not have to worry about the goody-two-shoes saying things like ‘you’re under arrest’ or ‘prepare to die, evil-doer’ or ‘ohgodohgod you just gouged out his eyes I’m going to be sick.’

Maybe it’s all about your ego. Millions of devils, no allies, and one of the mightiest angels to ever exist? Sounds like just the challenge to prove how spectacularly awesome you are.

Maybe you’re greedy. Elturel got pulled into Avernus. If you can figure out how to save them, you’re going to make an absolute fortune off of how grateful they’ll be.

Maybe you’re a legitimate hero. You’re facing down evil so that no one else has to. You’re putting your life on the line to keep others safe. You’re not bothered by the fact that the people you’ve rescued aren’t doing anything to help – you help those in need because it’s the right thing to do, not because you want a reward or expect to have the good deed repaid.

Maybe you’re a warrior for the heavens/the abyss. Every devil you slay is one less on the battlefield. Every ally you rescue is one more resource you have, and one less in the hands of the hells. Tearing down or turning Zariel herself will be a huge win in the chess matches between good and evil, and between the hells and the abyss. Yes, the next-most-powerful devil will take her place, but the next-most-powerful isn’t as powerful or competent as Zariel. The hells will be weaker without her.

Maybe you don’t have a choice; someone with authority over you has demanded that you do this. Your god has sent you on a holy mission. Your fiendish patron wants you to kill other devils so that they can climb the ladder. Something like that.

Maybe you don’t give a damn about all this infernal business, but you have a stake in someone else. Someone you care about lives in Elturel and you’re hoping to eventually rescue them. The party’s devout cleric is your best friend/sibling, and you’re going to do all in your power to ensure that they make it out of this fool errand alive. You think the party’s bard is hot AF and Gods damn it you’ll do whatever it takes to impress him/her.

You’re the one playing your character. You know who your character is and what moves them. The writers of the adventure don’t. They can only give you a situation; it’s up to you to decide why to care.

[Spo]

Hey! I'm currently lvl 5 in Descent into Avernus (as a group not part of AL (and as Tortle Barbarian/Monk) And the reason we went to Avernus is because one of our party members is from the city that got sucked into Avernus, and we've all come together to help him and the people. My character specifically (after killing one of the demon worshiping people in baldurs gate, forgot their names) pledged to help his people!

Anyway, when we got went into Avernus we came out straight into the city!

I've never read the module for the game but I know our DM is making sure things go well for us (after all we started off the game at 2nd lvl) but quite frankly have no idea what your plot is since it sounds super different from the one I'm doing (minus the whole city in hell thing)

This is my experience a well. Only lvl 5 in this module with a regular group of Al players/GM. Popped into the city; found our way to a cathedral/catacombs and just retrieved something from the gray yard and on our way to the junk yard now.

Campaign kind of stall bc GM issues but no complaints regarding the module pacing (again only lvl 5 so your points may become apparent later on).

[Boci]

You’re the one playing your character. You know who your character is and what moves them. The writers of the adventure don’t. They can only give you a situation; it’s up to you to decide why to care.

It is the module writers though to work with the players and make a situation in which it is easy to care. In Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, the module starts with a letter being delivered to the PCs by name, asking for help. Whilst they could choose to ignore that and decide to go hunting trolls in the Shardir Hills, its reasonable to assume the PCs might be interested in answering such a letter (and includes at least 2 examples of NPCs asking the PCs to go anyway if the DM needs to offer them additional motive). In Jade Regent, the module instructs the DM to clarify a relationship between the PCs and a former adventuring NPC, so when they find a treasure with her family's crest on it, its reasonable they would want to find out why.

It doesn't sound like the module writers here were giving the players much to work with.

[Veldrenor]

It is the module writers though to work with the players and make a situation in which it is easy to care. In Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, the module starts with a letter being delivered to the PCs by name, asking for help. Whilst they could choose to ignore that and decide to go hunting trolls in the Shardir Hills, its reasonable to assume the PCs might be interested in answering such a letter (and includes at least 2 examples of NPCs asking the PCs to go anyway if the DM needs to offer them additional motive). In Jade Regent, the module instructs the DM to clarify a relationship between the PCs and a former adventuring NPC, so when they find a treasure with her family's crest on it, its reasonable they would want to find out why.

It doesn't sound like the module writers here were giving the players much to work with.

It sounds that way because the OP started telling the story in the middle. Saving the unicorn is in "In the Garden of Evil," AL Avernus #8. The silver dragon? "Tipping the Scales," AL Avernus #10. Presumably, the OP has been following along the plot for 10 adventures now. If not, each individual adventure has 2-4 separate adventure hooks to integrate new players into the existing flow. From the OP's rant it sounds like they may have jumped into the adventure in the middle and the DM didn't do a good job bringing them in.

One of the complications in talking about this is that AL Descent into Avernus =/= Descent into Avernus. Descent into Avernus is like Jade Regent, a full on start-to-finish adventure path/module with a unifying hook (you've been drafted by the Flaming Fist mercenaries, and your party has a shared Dark Secret that someone in the city uses against them). AL Descent into Avernus is a bunch of adventures with a loose connecting story thread that is happening alongside the Descent into Avernus adventure module. Additional adventures in the AL Descent into Avernus are released periodically as the AL season goes along (the most recent, DDAL09-17, was released at the end of April).