Chosen of Mystra bonus spells and spell immunities?

[eyebreaker7]

So I'm messing around just creating things and stumbled on the The Chosen of Mystra who get bonus spells and immunity to spells among other things. I'm curious what others would choose for the bonus spells and the spell immunities? Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Bonus Spells (Sp): A Chosen gains one bonus spell of each spell level 1st through 9th per day, which can be used as a spell-like ability. Once these nine spells are selected, they can never be changed. Most Chosen select a variety of offensive, defensive, and utility spells with this ability.
1: Magic Missile ( Sorcerer, wizard)
2: Fire shuriken: Magical shuriken deal 3d6 fire damage. (SC 92) (Assassin) (This spell is taken because it's a good spell but more so because her favored weapon is the shuriken.
3: Spider Poison: Touch deals 1d6 Str damage, repeats in 1 minute. (SC 231) (Sorcerer, wizard)
4: Stoneskin: (Sorcerer, wizard)
5: Viscid Glob: Ranged touch attack hurls 5-ft-diameter glob of glue at subject. (Sorcerer, wizard)
6: Extract Water Elemental: Pulls water from victim, forms water elemental. (SC 86) (Druid)
7: Prismatic Spray or Project Image or Teleport, Greater or Body of War (SC 35) (All 4 are sorcerer and wizard)
8: Shadow Evocation, Greater: (up to 7th level and 60% real.) (Sorcerer, wizard)
9: Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds. (Sorcerer/wizard) or Summon Elemental Monolith M: Calls powerful elemental creature to fight for you. (SC 214 = CA 156) (Cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard) (Time stop is nice but the rest of the party is on hold and not all creatures are effected by it. Can't think of any off hand. Maybe I'm just thinking of demon/devil lords. Summon Elemental Monolith is SO strong it's relevant?)

These 2 spells are other bonuses that I'd like input on as to which spells you would choose as well.

(Spells from Spell domain)
3 *Anyspell* Read and prepare any arcane spell of up to 2nd level. (FRCS page 67)
6 *Greater anyspell*: As anyspell, except you can read and prepare any arcane spell of up to 5th level, and the prepared spell occupies your 6th level domain spell slot. (FRCS page70-71)

Then there's the spells to become immune to. So far I've only got a couple.

Spell Immunity (Su): Chosen are immune to one spell of each spell level 1st through 9th just as if the spell immunity spell were constantly in effect upon them. Once these nine spells are selected, they can never be changed.
1: Magic Missile (Sorcerer, wizard) (Every mage uses it)
2:
3: Fireball (Sorcerer, wizard) (every mage and fiend and anything else fire uses it. Not totally correct but a LOT of creatures use it.)
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9: Black Blade of Disaster (Spell Compendium 29) (Sorcerer, wizard) (Can't choose Time Stop)

It's a bit lengthy but I'm asking for thoughts on the spells I picked and what others I should? This may be used as an NPC to start and turn into a party member depending how things go (Not sure what level he/she will start at but definitely low to mid (5-9). I know it's a very rare thing to become a Chosen but we have some ideas to float around. Like giving him/her the sword I talked about in another thread. The spellfire like one. Still working on that too.

Forgot to mention he/she will be a cleric.

[RNightstalker]

For spell immunities, I'd go with things that don't have saves/SR, things that can really screw things up. Maze, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Entangle, etc.

I also know that in one of the FR resource books, Elminster is statted out and his are listed, though I don't remember off-hand.

Also, don't double dip: there's a list of immunities that will cover a bunch of spells also, so you don't need to choose disintegrate, for example.

[eyebreaker7]

Found Elminster on page 7 of the FRCS. He's immune to Time Stop which for some reason I didn't think was an option. He also has his Chosen of Mystra bonus spell-like abilities. One is "Simbul's synostodweomer (converts prepared spells into 2 points of healing per spell level). Where is that spell found? It's not in the same book or the PHB or the SC.
His entry also says he has increased his Int by using the wish spell. Is there some sort of limit to the amount you can increase stats using a wish spell? Why did he stop where he did (Int 24)?
I thought he had spellfire? It's not in his entry but I thought I read it somewhere. Guess not.

[Heavenblade]

I'd take all different flavor of dispels as spells to be immune to, since it can let you get effective permanency on your long term buffs - sure, you need to recast them, but as long sa you made the right preparations, you know that a turn spent buffing is never wasted!

[eyebreaker7]

He/she is going to have the "Good" and the "Spell" domains. The "Good" domain gives "dispel evil".
The spell "Spell immunity" says: "Naturally, that immunity doesn’t protect a creature from spells for which spell resistance doesn’t apply." and Dispel magic (and greater) does not offer SR so it can't be chosen. That's why I thought "Time stop" wasn't allowed. It doesn't even have an entry for SR that says yes or no. Yet Elminster has it. How? I mean besides the fact that he's practically a god. Lol.

[RNightstalker]

Found Elminster on page 7 of the FRCS. He's immune to Time Stop which for some reason I didn't think was an option. He also has his Chosen of Mystra bonus spell-like abilities. One is "Simbul's synostodweomer (converts prepared spells into 2 points of healing per spell level). Where is that spell found? It's not in the same book or the PHB or the SC.

MoF 119

His entry also says he has increased his Int by using the wish spell. Is there some sort of limit to the amount you can increase stats using a wish spell? Why did he stop where he did (Int 24)?

Using a wish spell to increase your stats gives you inherent bonuses to a max of +5...Even the ELH and other sources confirm you can't have more than a +5 inherent bonus, which I'm sure Epic characters should be able to get around.

I thought he had spellfire? It's not in his entry but I thought I read it somewhere. Guess not.

Chosen of Mystra have Silverfire, which is different than Spellfire.

P.S. Notable/Epic NPC's aren't exactly optimized, so bear that in mind when looking at Elminster's stuff, or any of them for that matter.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Depends a lot on the ECL, but assuming 17-Epic, and that you need to choose from the Sor/Wiz list, spells to have as SLAs:
1:
2:
3: Heart of Water (yes, you should be preparing this anyway, possibly multiple copies. I like having 1 more in my back pocket)
4: Animate Dead (Not for actual use, mostly as a 6-second way to guarantee that whoever you just killed is not coming back)
5:
6: Permanency
7: Simulacrum (or Limited Wish, but at this point the cost for LW is a lot less relevant). Alternately, either Greater Teleport or Plane Shift, as decent escape options.
8: Polymorph Any Object
9: Wish

(special mention to anything from a banned school, so that you're not dependent on wands/scrolls)

Immunities:
1: Silent Image (Tell Shadowcraft Mages to sit down and shut up)
2:
3: Magic Circle Against (my alignment)
4:
5:
6: Antimagic Field (I'd go with Greater Dispel Magic, but that caps at CL 20, which he should be able to beat at the relevant levels, and this lets him use AMF on himself for added protection. Failing that, True Seeing(seriously, if it's possible to be immune to Time Stop, you can be immune to anything, and the most common Divination is a good place to start))
7:
8: Polymorph Any Object (This is a difficult call, there's probably better things to be immune to, but this is a save-or-lose that your enemies will definitely have, so it's probably going to be useful. Don't take if you're reliant on the spell to access a PRC like Beholder Mage, since you can't recast it if it does get removed)
9: Mordenkainen's Disjunction

Notably, wow 6th level spells can be scary. There's a lot to be immune to there. I mostly went with the common "mess stuff up" spell for each level for immunities, and picked either good utility options you ALWAYS want or spells with XP costs for the SLAs.

[eyebreaker7]

As far as I know you can pick spells from ANY class. Anyone know if this is not true?

Where is "Heart of Water" from?


Ok here's what I have so far:

Bonus Spells (Sp): A Chosen gains one bonus spell of each spell level 1st through 9th per day, which can be used as a spell-like ability. Once these nine spells are selected, they can never be changed. Most Chosen select a variety of offensive, defensive, and utility spells with this ability.
1: Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5).
2: Fire shuriken: Magical shuriken deal 3d6 fire damage. (SC 92) (Assassin)
3: Spider Poison: Touch deals 1d6 Str damage, repeats in 1 minute. (SC 231) (Sorcerer, wizard)
4: Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible.
5: Permanency X: Makes certain spells permanent.
6: Contingency F: Sets trigger condition for another spell.
7: Teleport, Greater: As teleport, but no range limit and no off-target arrival.
8: Shadow Evocation, Greater: As shadow evocation, but up to 7th level and 60% real.
9: Summon Elemental Monolith M: Calls powerful elemental creature to fight for you. (SC 214 = CA 156) (Cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard)

(Spells from Spell domain)
3 *Anyspell* Read and prepare any arcane spell of up to 2nd level. (FRCS page 67)
6 *Greater anyspell*: As anyspell, except you can read and prepare any arcane spell of up to 5th level, and the prepared spell occupies your 6th level domain spell slot. (FRCS page70-71)


Spell Immunity (Su): Chosen are immune to one spell of each spell level 1st through 9th just as if the spell immunity spell were constantly in effect upon them. Once these nine spells are selected, they can never be changed.
1: Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5).
2: Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blind or deaf.
3: Magic circle against Good: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
4: Rainbow Pattern: Lights fascinate 24 HD of creatures.
5: Feeblemind: Subject’s Int and Cha drop to 1.
6: Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft.
7: Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less.
8: Polymorph Any Object: Changes any subject into anything else.
9: Mage’s Disjunction: Dispels magic, disenchants magic items.

[RNightstalker]

5: Permanency X: Makes certain spells permanent.


Got some really limited uses for a PC doesn't it?

[eyebreaker7]

How about Viscid Glob: Ranged touch attack hurls 5-ft-diameter glob of glue at subject.

Viscid Glob
Conjuration
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 5
Components: V,S,M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

When you attack with a viscid glob, you make a ranged touch attack against the target. If you miss, the glob might strike a nearby square or creature (see Missing with a Thrown Weapon, PH 158). Once you have established the direction of the miss, roll 1d4 to determine the number of squares away from the target square that the glob lands.
A medium or smaller creature struck by the glob must make a successful Reflex save or be instantly stuck in place. A stuck creature can speak but is otherwise limited to purely mental actions (such as casting spells with no somatic or material components) and attempts to free itself by means of a Strength check or Escape Artist check (against a DC equal to this spell's DC) made as a full-round action. A Large or larger creature struck in the goo can't move from the spot where it is glued, but it can otherwise act normally.
The glob dissipates when the spell duration expires. Until then, it remains sticky, and any creature touching it (for example, a creature attempting to pull out an ally) must make a successful Reflex save or become stuck itself. A creature struck by such secondary contact is not trapped as thoroughly as a creature targeted by the glob, however, so the DC of the Strength check or Escape Artist check required to get free is reduced by 5.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Got some really limited uses for a PC doesn't it?

SLAs don't have an XP cost, which suddenly makes Permanency a decent way to put buffs in place, build a castle, etc.

[Ruethgar]

Quicken Mnemonic Enhancer for the fourth level spell is a no brainer.

[eyebreaker7]

Quicken Mnemonic Enhancer for the fourth level spell is a no brainer.

Get it as a domain spell but it's not quickend. Would you prep spells ahead of time? If so which ones? They have to be cleric spells. or one of my bonus spells that fit.

[Ruethgar]

Mnemonic Enhancer with Sanctum Spell as one of your feats. Because preparing is not casting in a sanctum, all spells being prepared with it count as one level lower. Common misconception is that the lower level only counts when cast outside a sanctum, but it is instead when not cast in a sanctum. So for example Mana Burn from the Warcraft RPG would burn more Sanctum spells since they count as lower when prepared.

Prepare all cantrips/orisons you have access to as Sanctum Spells via Mnemonic Enhancer. Let’s assume you prepare 10 sanctum cantrips, you have 13 spell levels to go.

[eyebreaker7]

Sanctum Spell feat says "A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level." Am I mis-reading that it doesn't work like you said?
Another question about the Mnemonic enhancer spell, could I use it on my Magic Missile spell I have as a bonus spell? If so could I effectively cast it 4 times in one day by prepping 3 in the Enhancer spell? I can normally only cast it once a day.

[Ruethgar]

The spell slot it uses does not determine the spell level.

[RNightstalker]

SLAs don't have an XP cost, which suddenly makes Permanency a decent way to put buffs in place, build a castle, etc.

Build a castle? You're giving me ideas, tell me more!

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Build a castle? You're giving me ideas, tell me more!

Well, the castle itself can be done easily enough with the usual Wall of Stone+Stone Shape spells. Permanency gives you Wall of Fire, Wall of Force, the Symbol spells, Phase Door...basically, it was designed so that the BBEG can make himself a tower that's challenging for a 10th-level party, but you can do the exact same thing for your personal base. (yes, private demiplane, but I didn't spend decades learning how to rewrite reality NOT to be surrounded by supplicants and servants. That means I need a place for them, which means a castle)

[eyebreaker7]

The spell slot it uses does not determine the spell level.

I'm still confused sorry. Can you try and explain it differently please.

A sanctum spell has an effective spell level 1 higher than its normal level if cast in your sanctum (see below), but if not cast in the sanctum, the spell has an effective spell level 1 lower than normal. All effects dependent on spell level (including save DCs) are calculated according to the adjusted level. A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level.
That last sentence is what is confusing me. "of the spell's NORMAL level"

[Ruethgar]

You can prepare spells in any slot equal or higher than its normal spell level, doesn’t mean they are the level you cast them from. Almost no metamagic changes spell level. A Twin Repeat Extend Persist Energy Substitution Born of the Three Thunders Concussive Elemalific Produce Flame is still only a 1st level spell. The exceptions are Heighten and everything that references it(Krau and Earth Spell come to mind), Sanctum, Mind Mage, and War spells.

So a Sanctum Ray of Frost takes it’s normal slot(0 level) but because it has not been cast in a sanctum, it counts as a spell level -1 for all effects dependent on its spell level, such as Mnemonic Enhancer, or something that lets you sacrifice spells of a certain level, or for Reserve feats(a Sanctum Scorching Ray can’t power Fiery Burst).

[Saintheart]

You can prepare spells in any slot equal or higher than its normal spell level, doesn’t mean they are the level you cast them from. Almost no metamagic changes spell level. A Twin Repeat Extend Persist Energy Substitution Born of the Three Thunders Concussive Elemalific Produce Flame is still only a 1st level spell. The exceptions are Heighten and everything that references it(Krau and Earth Spell come to mind), Sanctum, Mind Mage, and War spells.

So a Sanctum Ray of Frost takes it’s normal slot(0 level) but because it has not been cast in a sanctum, it counts as a spell level -1 for all effects dependent on its spell level, such as Mnemonic Enhancer, or something that lets you sacrifice spells of a certain level, or for Reserve feats(a Sanctum Scorching Ray can’t power Fiery Burst).

My understanding is that Sanctum Spell can therefore also be very handy for magic item crafting, since a magic item's creation cost is directly proportional to the level of the spell involved. If a spell grants a flat bonus that doesn't depend on the spell's level - e.g. something like True Strike - then it makes sense to try and get the spell's level as low as possible so as to make it cheaper.

[Ruethgar]

My understanding is that Sanctum Spell can therefore also be very handy for magic item crafting, since a magic item's creation cost is directly proportional to the level of the spell involved. If a spell grants a flat bonus that doesn't depend on the spell's level - e.g. something like True Strike - then it makes sense to try and get the spell's level as low as possible so as to make it cheaper.

Yeah, but typically a DM would drop the banhammer on that pretty quick when you start making scrolls of Sanctum Cantrips to gain XP and gold, probably before that cheese as well. Of course it could be argued that you use the ‘real’ level not effective level for crafting.

Mind Mage and Spellhaording dragons can be a fun combo to get around that whole ‘effective’ level thing and get spells of I think down to spell level -23(requires insane epic psionic power and Circle Magic) more reasonably could go down by three or four levels total.

[Spellweaver]

Found Elminster on page 7 of the FRCS. He's immune to Time Stop which for some reason I didn't think was an option. He also has his Chosen of Mystra bonus spell-like abilities. One is "Simbul's synostodweomer (converts prepared spells into 2 points of healing per spell level). Where is that spell found? It's not in the same book or the PHB or the SC.
His entry also says he has increased his Int by using the wish spell. Is there some sort of limit to the amount you can increase stats using a wish spell? Why did he stop where he did (Int 24)?
I thought he had spellfire? It's not in his entry but I thought I read it somewhere. Guess not.

The Elminster stat block in the FRCS is a huge, huge, huge mess. I guess it was written by someone who knew very little about the game rules AND did not know the 3E rules that were brand new at the time, AND it was all written before the rules were even finalized and published.

So someone took Elminsters 2E stat block and just cut and pasted in into 3E, and did a very sloppy job.

Simbul's synostodweomer is found in Magic of Fareun.

Time Stop, in 2E, really did freeze time for everyone except the caster. So in 2E it made sense to be immune to time stop. Elmister aslo has a spell that does that: Temporal Freedom.

The wish bit is, yet again, a 2E hold over. But oddly it's from the other D&D rules for Wish: Wishes can also be used to permanently in-crease ability scores, but the cost is very high:You must cast as many wishes as the number of the ability score desired. All the wishes must becast within a one-week period.You may raise an ability score only one pointat a time. To raise your Strength from 15 to 16takes 16 wishes. To then raise it to 17 will take anadditional 17 wishes. Wishes cannot perma-nently lower ability scores.

Also in 2E the ability score of 24 was super high.

Elminster, and all the chosen have Silver Fire. Spellfire is another thing, but they are similar.



So your list. Well, I would not pick so many attack spells. The thing is an attack spell is limited...you can only attack with it.

1-Summon Component (CM) --- Get components all day
2-Alter Self
3-Heart of Water
4-Otiluke‘s Suppressing Field
5-Teleport
6-Eyes of the Oracle
7-Arcane Spellsurge
8-Ghostform
9-Absorption

Just a quick list, there are tons more spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're a race that can take the feat Magic in the Blood (PGtF), you should be able to use those spell-like abilities 3/day instead of just 1/day. Assuming Chosen of Mystra is a template, which would make them count as racial spell-like abilities. Sadly this excludes Magical Training to qualify for Dweomerkeeper (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a) without multiclassing, but Anyspell could be used to meet that prerequisite anyway, assuming your DM rules it as being cast as an arcane spell (see below).

Also remember that spell-like abilities have no components (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities), including costly material components and even xp costs.

Furthermore, you can get things like Teleport, Magic Missile, and Fireball from your normal spell slots via the Raiment of the Four set in MIC.

What level do you plan on making this? Most of the Chosen of Mystra are epic level, and most of the damaging spells you could get are basically worthless by then.

If you do make them usable 3/day with that, you want to consider if it's worthwhile to take Quicken Spell-Like Ability (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#quickenSpellLikeAbility) and/or Maximize Spell-Like Ability (CA, uses the Empower Spell-Like Ability minimum levels). Taking Quicken at 12th level you can pick a 1st or 2nd level spell, at 15th you can pick a 3rd level spell, and at 18th you can pick one up to 5th level. For Maximize or Empower you can pick higher level spells earlier, but I would only take that for Wings of Flurry or something similarly strong (i.e. no level-based damage cap).

With the above in mind, this is what I would pick:

Spell-Like Abilities:
1st: Snowsight (FB) (prepare and cast Obscuring Snow every day!)
2nd: Wings of Cover (RotD)
3rd: Shivering Touch (FB) (good candidate for both Maximize and Quicken)
4th: Wings of Flurry (RotD) (candidate for Maximize)
5th: Wall of Force
6th: True Seeing
7th: Limited Wish
8th: Moment of Prescience (use this for initiative rolls!)
9th: Wish

Spell Immunities, assuming the most beneficial-to-the-Chosen-of-Mystra rulings always occur, considering the goddess of magic has granted these:
1st: Rhino's Rush (SC) - attacks made against you don't benefit from this spell's effect.
2nd: Wraithstrike (SC) - attacks made against you don't benefit from this spell's effect.
3rd: Shivering Touch (FB)
4th: Dimensional Anchor
5th: M's Private Sanctum
6th: Greater Dispel Magic - your own effects apply to your attended items, this should apply to spells you've cast as well.
7th: Simulacrum - prevents Simulacrums of you from being made, and makes you immune to anything and everything any Simulacrum ever does.
8th: Dimensional Lock
9th: M's Disjunction - your own effects apply to your attended items, this should apply to spells you've cast as well.


For Anyspell and Greater Anyspell, it really depends on how your DM rules what type of spells the ones they allow you to prepare are cast as. Clerics cast divine spells, but it says they're cast as though by a Wizard, meaning they may count as arcane spells. It matters for Divine Metamagic, and whether you can DMM: Persist the spells you cast with them. If they're cast as arcane spell, great news, you don't need Magical Training or multiclassing to take Dweomerkeeper! If they're cast as divine spells, great news, you can DMM: Persist them!

You prepare those as domain spells, when you cast one it allows you to prepare the chosen spell in the very same domain slot you'd already used. You can use a Pearl of Power to recover them and cast it again to prepare a different (or the same) spell in that domain slot again.

If you can DMM: Persist the spells cast via Anyspell and Greater Anyspell, get a 3rd level Pearl of Power and use Anyspell cast Shield and Wraithstrike. Use Greater Anyspell to cast Draconic Polymorph into either a War Troll (MM3) or an Arrow Demon (MM3) if you're into archery. Get more 3rd level Pearls of Power to use Anyspell to cast Alter Self to turn back into yourself when needing to socialize, but you'll retain the ability scores of that Draconic Polymorph form and you can dismiss the Alter Self to resume being in that form. Even if you can't DMM: Persist your (Greater) Anyspell spells, you can UMD a custom Runestaff with the above spells on it, and cast them normally with DMM: Persist. You can also get the Magic domain with the epic feat Master Staff and make a custom staff (using Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and your Limited Wish and Wish spell-like abilities to emulate the spells needed to make the staff, or just Ancestral Relic it) for access to tons of non-Cleric utility spells. The Magic domain also allows you to use utility/situational wands like Command Undead and Benign Transposition. Carry an Elvencraft (RotW) composite longbow with three wand chambers and +1 Defending on all three weapon portions, Greater Magic Weapon them every day.

If they're cast as arcane spells, just use them for things your Cleric spells can't do. With Anyspell, Web or Glitterdust at your own caster level and DC aren't bad choices, or Arcane Turmoil (CM) is pretty decent. For Greater Anyspell, you can say you used it to cast Permanency on a bunch of your buffs. Overland Flight and/or Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire (CM) are decent daily buffs to use it with.


On the subject of DMM: Persist, there are a number of spells you should make sure you persist on yourself every day. Holy Star (SC) three times is a top choice, you can even Greater Rod of Maximize those. Keep one in each mode, once one's spell turning is used up switch it to another mode and swap another one to spell turning mode. You can flip all three to fire ray mode to do a drive-by on someone when needed. Stormrage (SC) is another good one. Get a Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC) and at least one Nightstick (LM, more than one if they'll stack but ask your DM). Trade your Cleric Turn Undead for Rebuke Dragons in Dragon Magic, it can still be used to power divine feats, and dip one level of Sacred Exorcist to have double the number of turn/rebuke uses to fuel Divine Metamagic.


Get a 6th level Pearl of Power and a standard Metamagic Rod of Extend. Every other day prepare Energy Immunity (SC) twice, use those to cast it three times and each lasts 48 hours. On the days in between, prepare Superior Resistance (SC) and Energy Immunity each once, use the rod to cast it and the rod and pearl to cast Energy Immunity a second time, those each last 48 hours. For two 6th level spell slots per day and those two items, you'll be immune to all five energy types and get a +6 enhancement bonus to your saving throws.


Ideally you would go (Cloistered) Cleric 5/ Dweomerkeeper 2/ Sacred Exorcist 1/ Paragnostic Apostle 2 or 3/ Contemplative 1 or 2/ Dweomerkeeper 8. Hierophant is actually worth taking in the epic levels, especially since you can take Practiced Spellcaster and add the Hierophant caster level bonus on afterward, and Divine Reach makes touch-range spells persistable, plus it can be used to gain epic metamagic feats. Otherwise dipping Ardent with Practiced Manifester and taking Psychic Theurge, and/or dipping Wizard and taking Mystic Theurge and/or Cerebremancer, is better than epic levels of another class for expanding your capabilities in the epic levels.

[eyebreaker7]

If you're a race that can take the feat Magic in the Blood (PGtF), you should be able to use those spell-like abilities 3/day instead of just 1/day. Assuming Chosen of Mystra is a template, which would make them count as racial spell-like abilities. Sadly this excludes Magical Training to qualify for Dweomerkeeper (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a) without multiclassing, but Anyspell could be used to meet that prerequisite anyway, assuming your DM rules it as being cast as an arcane spell (see below).

Chosen of Mystra is not a template. It is a very rare gift by, of course, Mystra herself.

Furthermore, you can get things like Teleport, Magic Missile, and Fireball from your normal spell slots via the Raiment of the Four set in MIC.

Very nice! I'v gone through that book a couple times but didn't really look at sets. Figured they are to hard to get 2 or more items for the sets.

What level do you plan on making this? Most of the Chosen of Mystra are epic level, and most of the damaging spells you could get are basically worthless by then.

Level is still in question. Probably somewhere around 8 like the rest of the party average. Just want this info for future reference. Not even sure on race yet either.


With the above in mind, this is what I would pick:

Spell-Like Abilities:
1st: Snowsight (FB) (prepare and cast Obscuring Snow every day!) Like this combo! but what about the rest of your party's vision?[/B]
2nd: Wings of Cover (RotD) This spell doesn't apeal to me for some reason. Plus I have to take Fire Shurikan because that's Mystra's favored weapon. I just feel obligated
3rd: Shivering Touch (FB) (good candidate for both Maximize and Quicken) Will unfortunetely be useless in the snowy mountains we are going to. Going looking for a white dragon.
4th: Wings of Flurry (RotD) (candidate for Maximize) Likeing this one too.
5th: Wall of Force I've always liked this spell but I wanna try out the glue spell. Viscid Glob: Ranged touch attack hurls 5-ft-diameter glob of glue at subject.[/]
6th: True Seeing [B]Taking this as a cleric spell already
7th: Limited Wish As close to wish or miracle we are going to get. DM won't let us pick those spells due to their extreme power. We get to use them each 1/year once we have access to them.
8th: Moment of Prescience (use this for initiative rolls!) Doesn't work on initiative.
9th: Wish No access to.

Spell Immunities, assuming the most beneficial-to-the-Chosen-of-Mystra rulings always occur, considering the goddess of magic has granted these:
1st: Rhino's Rush (SC) - attacks made against you don't benefit from this spell's effect.
2nd: Wraithstrike (SC) - attacks made against you don't benefit from this spell's effect.
3rd: Shivering Touch (FB) Magic circle against Good: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level. Which would be better?The circle is more universal.
4th: Dimensional Anchor Not sure about this one or 4: Rainbow Pattern: Lights fascinate 24 HD of creatures. We've heard roomers of a bard in the area that likes to captivate audiances while the dragon comes down.

5th: M's Private Sanctum [B]How would this work? Also I like feeblemind.
6th: Greater Dispel Magic - your own effects apply to your attended items, this should apply to spells you've cast as well. Isn't Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft. better?
7th: Simulacrum - prevents Simulacrums of you from being made, and makes you immune to anything and everything any Simulacrum ever does. So I could never be attacked in any way by a Sim?
8th: Dimensional Lock I like being immune to Polymorph Any Object: Changes any subject into anything else.
9th: M's Disjunction - your own effects apply to your attended items, this should apply to spells you've cast as well. On my list already.


For Anyspell and Greater Anyspell, it really depends on how your DM rules what type of spells the ones they allow you to prepare are cast as. Clerics cast divine spells, but it says they're cast as though by a Wizard, meaning they may count as arcane spells. Yes "it works just as though cast by a wizard of your cleric level except your Wisdom score sets the DC (if applicable).

It matters for Divine Metamagic, and whether you can DMM: Persist the spells you cast with them. If they're cast as arcane spell They cast as sorcere spells to be specific., great news, you don't need Magical Training or multiclassing to take Dweomerkeeper! If they're cast as divine spells, great news, you can DMM: Persist them!

You prepare those as domain spells, when you cast one it allows you to prepare the chosen spell in the very same domain slot you'd already used. You can use a Pearl of Power to recover them and cast it again to prepare a different (or the same) spell in that domain slot again.

If you can DMM: Persist the spells cast via Anyspell and Greater Anyspell, get a 3rd level Pearl of Power and use Anyspell cast Shield and Wraithstrike. Use Greater Anyspell to cast Draconic Polymorph into either a War Troll (MM3) or an Arrow Demon (MM3) if you're into archery. Get more 3rd level Pearls of Power to use Anyspell to cast Alter Self to turn back into yourself when needing to socialize, but you'll retain the ability scores of that Draconic Polymorph form and you can dismiss the Alter Self to resume being in that form. Even if you can't DMM: Persist your (Greater) Anyspell spells, you can UMD a custom Runestaff with the above spells on it, and cast them normally with DMM: Persist. You can also get the Magic domain with the epic feat Master Staff and make a custom staff (using Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and your Limited Wish and Wish spell-like abilities to emulate the spells needed to make the staff, or just Ancestral Relic it) for access to tons of non-Cleric utility spells. The Magic domain also allows you to use utility/situational wands like Command Undead and Benign Transposition. Carry an Elvencraft (RotW) composite longbow with three wand chambers and +1 Defending on all three weapon portions, Greater Magic Weapon them every day.

If they're cast as arcane spells, just use them for things your Cleric spells can't do. With Anyspell, Web or Glitterdust at your own caster level and DC aren't bad choices, or Arcane Turmoil (CM) is pretty decent. For Greater Anyspell, you can say you used it to cast Permanency on a bunch of your buffs. Overland Flight and/or Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire (CM) are decent daily buffs to use it with.


On the subject of DMM: Persist, there are a number of spells you should make sure you persist on yourself every day. Holy Star (SC) three times is a top choice, you can even Greater Rod of Maximize those. Keep one in each mode, once one's spell turning is used up switch it to another mode and swap another one to spell turning mode. You can flip all three to fire ray mode to do a drive-by on someone when needed. Stormrage (SC) is another good one. Get a Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC) and at least one Nightstick (LM, more than one if they'll stack but ask your DM). Trade your Cleric Turn Undead for Rebuke Dragons in Dragon Magic, it can still be used to power divine feats, and dip one level of Sacred Exorcist to have double the number of turn/rebuke uses to fuel Divine Metamagic.

We only allow 1 persist spell per day for your character.

Get a 6th level Pearl of Power and a standard Metamagic Rod of Extend. Every other day prepare Energy Immunity (SC) twice, use those to cast it three times and each lasts 48 hours. On the days in between, prepare Superior Resistance (SC) and Energy Immunity each once, use the rod to cast it and the rod and pearl to cast Energy Immunity a second time, those each last 48 hours. For two 6th level spell slots per day and those two items, you'll be immune to all five energy types and get a +6 enhancement bonus to your saving throws.

Again, only 1/day

Ideally you would go (Cloistered) Cleric 5/ Dweomerkeeper 2/ Sacred Exorcist 1/ Paragnostic Apostle 2 or 3/ Contemplative 1 or 2/ Dweomerkeeper 8. Hierophant is actually worth taking in the epic levels, especially since you can take Practiced Spellcaster and add the Hierophant caster level bonus on afterward, and Divine Reach makes touch-range spells persistable, plus it can be used to gain epic metamagic feats. Otherwise dipping Ardent with Practiced Manifester and taking Psychic Theurge, and/or dipping Wizard and taking Mystic Theurge and/or Cerebremancer, is better than epic levels of another class for expanding your capabilities in the epic levels.

We don't allow more than 3 classes (this includes PrClasses) per character.
Lot's of good advice and ideas here. Thank you very much!

[the_tick_rules]

energy drain immunity is definitely worth considering. if you don't have soulfire armor you can get wrecked. yeah there is a defensive spell but quicken dispel plus energy drain.

[eyebreaker7]

If you're a race that can take the feat Magic in the Blood (PGtF), you should be able to use those spell-like abilities 3/day instead of just 1/day.


Unfortunately that feat says it's for racial spell-like abilities. Chosen of Mystra bonus spells are not considered racial :( That would have been sweet!
I do need to pick a race still

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Regarding your build, (Cloistered) Cleric 5 and Dweomerkeeper 10 should be a given, the last five levels can be something like Paragnostic Apostle or Divine Disciple or Divine Oracle or Contemplative or whatever else. You basically want to take something else before finishing Dweomerkeeper to pick higher level spells for the ones that lets you spontaneously cast.

Magic item sets in MIC require possession of one item of the set to make any of the others, so once you get one you can (cooperatively) craft the others of that set.

For the spell-like abilities, I chose True Seeing because it doesn't take a costly material component. If you're starting at around 8th level, all the more reason to pick that one. Moment of Prescience works on any opposed ability check: "At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm)" Everyone rolls initiative against each other, so it's very much an opposed check. Even if you're not using it on initiative, a huge bonus to any attack or save, or most other checks, is worthwhile. If you don't want MoP for some reason, Mind Blank is a superb choice as it lasts 24 hours. For Snowsight/Obscuring Snow, it's useful for when you're alone or if you have a Druid or Ranger who can cast Snowsight for the rest of the party, plus Snowsight itself is a unique effect that you can't really get anywhere else.

For the spell immunities, I didn't pick Antimagic Field because the feat Initiate of Mystra in PGtF can be taken at 3rd level and basically does the same thing, and Greater Dispel Magic can be very problematic. For things like Feeblemind and Polymorph, you should be able to easily make the saving throw by that level, and Rainbow Pattern is Will Negates and you've got a good Will save with a high Wis. Pick things that there's not currently any means to gain immunity to them, like being able to see/hear into and scry on an area protected by a Private Sanctum, or teleport away despite a Dimensional Lock. Shivering Touch is a very real threat, especially if you're also using it against opponents, and it's difficult to gain immunity to. There are four magic circle spells and you can only pick one to be immune to (law and chaos both work on a neutral alignment), and immunity to that doesn't seem like it would be very impactful. For picking something like Simulacrum, or Summon Monster, etc., if the spell creates something you'll be immune to whatever it created.

Only one persistent spell per day is sort of a bummer. In this case maybe go Illumian (Naenhoon) and you can use that once per day on Persist and once on another metamagic you have. In the early levels that should be Mass Lesser Vigor on your whole party, later on maybe switch to Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, but once you can cast it Holy Star is still a great choice.

[eyebreaker7]

So my DM suggested I choose a Ghaele (Savage Species 171-173) for my race. Says he has ideas a brewing to tie in with the adventure. After talking it over with the party they like the idea. It gains cleric spells up to level 7 so he'd still be a cleric of sorts including some choosable from domain spells. He will lose the Spell domain though so he wont have Anyspell, Mnemonic Enhancer, Greater Anyspell, Limited Wish (or Antimagic Field & Mage's Disjunction at spell levels 8 & 9). Again makes for some changes to bonus spells taken. They also have other nice powers they gain with each of their levels. Tieing this in with the Chosen of Mystra stuff it looks pretty cool The biggest drawback I see so far is they aren't proficient in any armor. So I'm gonna need to take a feat of Armor Proficiency (light) and get some good armor. A nice chain shirt of some sort. Oh, the party also wants me to be a crafter so I'm going to be taking some crafting feats when I can. It does change some things for spell immunities and spell bonuses.
A couple of questions;

1) Planetouched is a general word to describe someone who can trace his or her bloodline back to an outsider, usually a fiend or celestial. A Ghaele is a celestial so he's covered for taking the Magic in Blood feat right?

2) What are considered racial spell-like abilities for a Ghaele using the Savage Species entry? His Ghaele Powers are spell-like abilities. That covers it right? Because it technically being a Ghaele leveling up it's race not a class?
Ghaele Powers (Sp): Beginning at 6th level, a ghaele can use the following spell-like abilities once per day: chain lightning, charm monster, dispel magic, hold monster, improved invisibility (self only), major image, and wall of force.
At 9th level it can use any of these except chain lightning and wall of force three times per day, and
at 12th level it can use any of them except chain lightning and wall of force at will.
More powers at higher levels also.

Magic in the Blood
Type: Regional
Source: Player's Guide to Faerûn
You have a knack for getting the most out of your innate magical abilities. You can use them more often than others of your race can.
Region: Dwarf (Oldonnar or Underdark [Darklands]), elf (Menzoberranyr), gnome (the Great Dale, Thesk, or Underdark [Northdark]), planetouched (Calimshan, Mulhorand, or Unther), or spirit folk (Ashane).
Benefit: You can use your racial spell-like abilities more often than you otherwise could. Any ability that is otherwise usable once per day is now usable three times per day.
Special: You may select this feat only as a 1st-level character. You may have only one regional feat.


Planetouched is a general word to describe someone who can trace his or her bloodline back to an outsider, usually a fiend or celestial. A Ghaele is a celestial.

What are considered racial spell-like abilities for a Ghaele using the Savage Species entry? His Ghaele Powers are spell-like abilities. That covers it right? Because it technically being a Ghaele leveling up it's race not a class?
Quicken Spell [Metamagic]
Special
This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.


Would the Ghaele's spell-like powers be considered “spontaneous”? Or his Cleric or Chosen of Mystra spells?



Gonna look over this advice Biffoniacus. I definitely need to make some changes now. No Cloistered or Dweomerkeeper now though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Ghaele (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghaele.htm) is indeed powerful, but the savage progression in Savage Species is 20 levels for a 10 HD monster. That means when everyone else is 20th level, you'll still effectively be 10th level with a few things added on that won't be as good as ten levels worth of spellcasting and class features.

However, you can play a +0 LA race that gets full Cleric spellcasting and take Thaumaturgist (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/thaumaturgist.htm) and gain a Ghaele as your planar cohort as early as 12th level. So go (Cloistered) Cleric 5/ Dweomerkeeper 2/ Thaumaturgist 5/ Dweomerkeeper 8 for your 20-level build, and you've got a full-blown Ghaele cohort (not an under-leveled one) as a companion at 12th level.

[RNightstalker]

Oh, the party also wants me to be a crafter so I'm going to be taking some crafting feats when I can. It does change some things for spell immunities and spell bonuses.

Be wary of changing your build because of what the party wants you to do. There are ways of crafting some magic items without taking the feats for them. There's a forge in Races of Stone that let's you craft as if you had the feat, for example.

[Yogibear41]

However, you can play a +0 LA race that gets full Cleric spellcasting and take Thaumaturgist (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/thaumaturgist.htm) and gain a Ghaele as your planar cohort as early as 12th level. So go (Cloistered) Cleric 5/ Dweomerkeeper 2/ Thaumaturgist 5/ Dweomerkeeper 8 for your 20-level build, and you've got a full-blown Ghaele cohort (not an under-leveled one) as a companion at 12th level.

Doesn't Thaumaturgist still use the ECL of the outsider, so no LA means you can't take them as a cohort? Isn't it basically the same exact thing as a cohort gained via leadership?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Doesn't Thaumaturgist still use the ECL of the outsider, so no LA means you can't take them as a cohort? Isn't it basically the same exact thing as a cohort gained via leadership?

It does if it has one, but anything that can be called via Planar Ally, which the Ghaele very much can be, is a valid choice. You can get an elemental with no listed LA as a planar cohort, it's basically the same thing.

[Yogibear41]

It does if it has one, but anything that can be called via Planar Ally, which the Ghaele very much can be, is a valid choice. You can get an elemental with no listed LA as a planar cohort, it's basically the same thing.

Its pretty whack that at level 16 you could use a Horned Devil as a planar cohort, but you couldn't use an Erinyes because they are ECL 16.....