Greywander
2020-05-11, 04:40 AM
So this might require a bit of 'splaining. I've been tossing some ideas for a potential 5.5e-type of mod in my head, but there was one big sort of issue that I was having difficulty figuring out how to handle.
The two aspects at play here are a complete revamp of the class system, as well as the magic system. The specific changes to the magic system might not be important, just that I want there to be more than one magic system (akin to how the warlock's pact magic works differently from other spellcasters). The changes to the class system and the magic system don't individually create this problem, but rather it's doing both together.
First, let me walk you through the ideas I have for reworking the class system.
First of all, I want to rework the tier system from four tiers into a five tier system, where each tier is exactly four levels. Names are important, but for now let's just call these five tiers Novice, Veteran, Heroic, Legendary, and Mythic. (Conveniently, this lines up such that you get a proficiency bonus bump at the start of each new tier. Not really relevant, but interesting.)
Now here's where the magic happens: The class system is completely reworked so that each class only has four levels, exactly filling one tier. Once you finish a tier, you'll have to choose a new class for the next tier. This creates a much more modular class system that makes multiclassing and subclasses unnecessary; now every character gets multiple classes and most subclasses can be reworked into a full class. This approach might sound similar to prestige or paragon classes; I don't know much about those, but I think it's the same basic idea (e.g. switching to a more "advanced" class once you hit a level requirement).
To keep things from getting overwhelming, most classes would be locked behind a tier requirement, with only a small number of novice classes. New players would only have to choose a novice class to start off with, and once they hit veteran tier they should be familiar enough with the game to select from a broader set of classes. There also wouldn't be any class requirements to take a class, anyone can take a class as long as they meet the tier requirement.
Thus, some class progressions you might see could be...
Wizard -> Necromancer -> Lich -> Illusionist -> Archmage
Fighter -> Necromancer -> Warlord -> Death Knight -> Archmage
Wizard -> Assassin -> Death Knight -> Lich -> Champion
With classes only having four levels, I can also see standardizing what sorts of features you get and when. I can think of four types of class features that could each be given at different levels. The three that don't really matter for this discussion are:
Core feature - The defining trait that makes this class different from similar classes. A wizard might get their spellbook ability here. Probably comes at 2nd level.
Ribbon feature - What the Core feature does mechanically, the Ribbon feature does thematically. A fluff ability that adds flavor but not much mechanical power. Probably comes at 3rd level.
Capstone feature - What you get for completing a class. Obviously comes at 4th level. Now, the way I see it, reaching 4th level in a class doesn't mean you're the best at that class, but moreso just that you can now finally say you are, in fact, that class. A wizard at 1st - 3rd level is really just a wizard apprentice, but a 4th level wizard is actually a real wizard.
The ability that is relevant to this discussion is the one that most likely comes at 1st level of a class: the Progressive feature. This is a feature that gets stronger the more times you get it. The most common example, and the one relevant to this discussion, is spellcasting, but you could also make things like Extra Attack, Sneak Attack, or Ki into Progressive abilities. The idea is that you can stack classes with the same Progressive ability to enhance it, so if you stack a bunch of spellcasting classes then it progresses your spellcasting ability. Taking nothing but caster classes is basically how you make yourself a full caster. Each caster class might also have its own spell list that gets added to yours, letting you build your own spell list depending on which classes you take.
The problem, as mentioned, is that I'd like to have a couple of different caster classes that use their spellcasting differently. For example, I'd like wizards to lean more into ritual casting and not get spell slots until they start their second caster tier, whereas the defining feature of sorcerers is that they get spell slots (or equivalent) right from the first tier, but can't use rituals.
The thing is, it makes sense to me that both a wizard and a sorcerer might want to take, say, the necromancer class. I could make two separate necromancer classes, one that progresses wizard spellcasting and one that progresses sorcerer spellcasting, but that seems like an inefficient way of handling it. The best solution I can come up with is for all non-novice classes that deal in the supernatural to just have a generic Supernatural Ability progressive feature. If you already have a supernatural ability from novice tier, it simply progresses that ability. If you don't, you get to choose one. This would also allow for the future introduction of, say, a psion or mutant class, who don't actually use magic but still have supernatural powers.
While this seems like a decent solution, it raises two further problems. First, if casters are universally built around a single progressive feature (Supernatural Ability), then shouldn't martials be also? But I also don't want things to feel same-y, I'd like to have some diversity in the actual things you can get from classes, instead of just having two main abilities (the martial ability and the caster ability). But if martials have different abilities, then they don't stack as nicely without you having to take specific classes with the same progressive ability. The second issue is that not all supernatural powers might run off of spell slots. A mutant who becomes a necromancer might not even use spells.
I don't have a good answer for that first issue yet, but what if spells were replaced with general super powers, and magic was merely one way of expressing those powers? I'm not sure D&D's magic system is up to that task, but since I was planning on overhauling it anyway, I could design it to accommodate it. I've heard that Mutants and Masterminds has a good system for building your own superpowers, so maybe some inspiration could be taken from there.
A more boring option would be to treat all casters as Spells Known casters, basically having one spellcasting progression track that all casters use, but each type of caster (wizard, sorcerer, cleric, etc.) gets an additional quirk that let's them do a bit more with their spellcasting. This isn't too far off from how it currently works, but it's kind of boring and I feel like it would make all casters feel too much the same.
Anyway, apologies for the long read. What are your thoughts on this concept in general, and what do you think is the best solution to the issues presented here?
The two aspects at play here are a complete revamp of the class system, as well as the magic system. The specific changes to the magic system might not be important, just that I want there to be more than one magic system (akin to how the warlock's pact magic works differently from other spellcasters). The changes to the class system and the magic system don't individually create this problem, but rather it's doing both together.
First, let me walk you through the ideas I have for reworking the class system.
First of all, I want to rework the tier system from four tiers into a five tier system, where each tier is exactly four levels. Names are important, but for now let's just call these five tiers Novice, Veteran, Heroic, Legendary, and Mythic. (Conveniently, this lines up such that you get a proficiency bonus bump at the start of each new tier. Not really relevant, but interesting.)
Now here's where the magic happens: The class system is completely reworked so that each class only has four levels, exactly filling one tier. Once you finish a tier, you'll have to choose a new class for the next tier. This creates a much more modular class system that makes multiclassing and subclasses unnecessary; now every character gets multiple classes and most subclasses can be reworked into a full class. This approach might sound similar to prestige or paragon classes; I don't know much about those, but I think it's the same basic idea (e.g. switching to a more "advanced" class once you hit a level requirement).
To keep things from getting overwhelming, most classes would be locked behind a tier requirement, with only a small number of novice classes. New players would only have to choose a novice class to start off with, and once they hit veteran tier they should be familiar enough with the game to select from a broader set of classes. There also wouldn't be any class requirements to take a class, anyone can take a class as long as they meet the tier requirement.
Thus, some class progressions you might see could be...
Wizard -> Necromancer -> Lich -> Illusionist -> Archmage
Fighter -> Necromancer -> Warlord -> Death Knight -> Archmage
Wizard -> Assassin -> Death Knight -> Lich -> Champion
With classes only having four levels, I can also see standardizing what sorts of features you get and when. I can think of four types of class features that could each be given at different levels. The three that don't really matter for this discussion are:
Core feature - The defining trait that makes this class different from similar classes. A wizard might get their spellbook ability here. Probably comes at 2nd level.
Ribbon feature - What the Core feature does mechanically, the Ribbon feature does thematically. A fluff ability that adds flavor but not much mechanical power. Probably comes at 3rd level.
Capstone feature - What you get for completing a class. Obviously comes at 4th level. Now, the way I see it, reaching 4th level in a class doesn't mean you're the best at that class, but moreso just that you can now finally say you are, in fact, that class. A wizard at 1st - 3rd level is really just a wizard apprentice, but a 4th level wizard is actually a real wizard.
The ability that is relevant to this discussion is the one that most likely comes at 1st level of a class: the Progressive feature. This is a feature that gets stronger the more times you get it. The most common example, and the one relevant to this discussion, is spellcasting, but you could also make things like Extra Attack, Sneak Attack, or Ki into Progressive abilities. The idea is that you can stack classes with the same Progressive ability to enhance it, so if you stack a bunch of spellcasting classes then it progresses your spellcasting ability. Taking nothing but caster classes is basically how you make yourself a full caster. Each caster class might also have its own spell list that gets added to yours, letting you build your own spell list depending on which classes you take.
The problem, as mentioned, is that I'd like to have a couple of different caster classes that use their spellcasting differently. For example, I'd like wizards to lean more into ritual casting and not get spell slots until they start their second caster tier, whereas the defining feature of sorcerers is that they get spell slots (or equivalent) right from the first tier, but can't use rituals.
The thing is, it makes sense to me that both a wizard and a sorcerer might want to take, say, the necromancer class. I could make two separate necromancer classes, one that progresses wizard spellcasting and one that progresses sorcerer spellcasting, but that seems like an inefficient way of handling it. The best solution I can come up with is for all non-novice classes that deal in the supernatural to just have a generic Supernatural Ability progressive feature. If you already have a supernatural ability from novice tier, it simply progresses that ability. If you don't, you get to choose one. This would also allow for the future introduction of, say, a psion or mutant class, who don't actually use magic but still have supernatural powers.
While this seems like a decent solution, it raises two further problems. First, if casters are universally built around a single progressive feature (Supernatural Ability), then shouldn't martials be also? But I also don't want things to feel same-y, I'd like to have some diversity in the actual things you can get from classes, instead of just having two main abilities (the martial ability and the caster ability). But if martials have different abilities, then they don't stack as nicely without you having to take specific classes with the same progressive ability. The second issue is that not all supernatural powers might run off of spell slots. A mutant who becomes a necromancer might not even use spells.
I don't have a good answer for that first issue yet, but what if spells were replaced with general super powers, and magic was merely one way of expressing those powers? I'm not sure D&D's magic system is up to that task, but since I was planning on overhauling it anyway, I could design it to accommodate it. I've heard that Mutants and Masterminds has a good system for building your own superpowers, so maybe some inspiration could be taken from there.
A more boring option would be to treat all casters as Spells Known casters, basically having one spellcasting progression track that all casters use, but each type of caster (wizard, sorcerer, cleric, etc.) gets an additional quirk that let's them do a bit more with their spellcasting. This isn't too far off from how it currently works, but it's kind of boring and I feel like it would make all casters feel too much the same.
Anyway, apologies for the long read. What are your thoughts on this concept in general, and what do you think is the best solution to the issues presented here?