Barbarian/Druid Rage/Wild Shape "ethics" question

[Breccia]

So a new campaign is started to which I'm invited, and based on the setup, I'm considering playing a literal berserker.

Everything I've seen so far in the official rules seems to say a Barbdruidian can Rage and Wild Shape at the same time.

I'm not asking a rules question, just so we're clear.

I'm asking, if it was your campaign and the rules were not clear, would you personally allow it or not?

Basically, I'm a little worried that I'm minmaxing too far and/or exploiting loopholes. If enough people here say they'd block it, I'll abide by that decision and make something else.

Thank you for your time.

[NorthernPhoenix]

While this combo is "RAW", i'm not above banning things that are "RAW" if i find them disruptive.

This is not one of those things. It's thematic and cool, and not even close to my top 5 most egregious multi class offenses.

[Chad.e.clark]

RAW, it's fair game. It's not anything game breaking. When not Wild Shaped, you are quite MAD, needing both STR 13 and WIS 13 just to qualify, meaning for points buy you are spread out pretty far because you will probably want some DEX and CON, too.

And any detour from full casting progression is a steep price. Plus, between Wild Shaping and Rage, you are a full caster who is not casting or concentrating (when raging).

I say go for it. You will be strong with your schtick, but you are paying for it.

[nickl_2000]

I don't see a major issue here, or even a minor issue. A Druid's wildshape is very swingy on when it is powerful and really loses it's luster in between. If you are taking 2 levels of Barbarian you are delaying the wildshape jumps for being able to effective get more HP and AC.

Additionally, you are losing the ability to concentrate on spells while raging.



I would say you are good, but just message the DM and players. My DM wasn't super happy with a Moon Druid at level 2 when it just massacred some encounters, so I emailed him asking if he wanted me to change classes (no hard feelings, if the DM isn't having fun then I'm taking away from the groups overall fun). He said no, and realized that after level 4 it wasn't an issue as much anymore.

[stoutstien]

I don't see a problem with it. It's strong at lv 3 but starts losing power every following level.
From my perspective as a DM the conflict of wild shapes and rage both needing separate actions and the blocking spell casting which is really the strong point of druids, even moon, firmly places it in the gimmick category.

A mark of warding dwarf on the other hand...

[Keravath]

Its a fairly popular option if you want to build a tanky druid. RAW, there is nothing preventing it. You can even use bonus action to rage and action to wild shape in the same turn, though you won't get an attack and a stickler DM could say you immediately lose rage because you haven't made an attack or been damaged by the end of your turn.

However, there are a lot of good spells that a moon druid can use to supplement their wildshapes including barkskin or conjure animals to summon a bunch of identical creatures and disappear into the pack (or lightning storm etc). These require concentration and aren't options for a raging barbarian druid. The multiclass also puts your spellcasting a level or two behind.

[Breccia]

needing both STR 13 and WIS 13 just to qualify.

Indeed, my character's stats will be quite...diverse. That's part of the problem with minmaxxing, which is why I try not to do it, and why I'm asking this question at all honestly.

The good news is I don't technically need Con if I borrow the bear's Con. It just leaves me the world's most fragile Barbarian during hibernation.



However, there are a lot of good spells that a moon druid can use to supplement their wildshapes including barkskin

I was planning on bypassing the whole "concentration" bit by burning all my spell slots as self-healing while Raging. However, maybe I should read the list first.


It's strong at lv 3 but starts losing power every following level.

I have no idea what level the campaign is. If it's mid/high level, and the combo loses power, I'm less averse to trying it.

[Chronos]

Yup, it's a powerful combination, but you're also giving up other powerful options to get it. If I'm in a game that's allowing multiclassing at all, I'd allow it.

[Breccia]

And any detour from full casting progression is a steep price. Plus, between Wild Shaping and Rage, you are a full caster who is not casting or concentrating (when raging). .


The multiclass also puts your spellcasting a level or two behind.

I'm not sure what high-level "branch" I'd follow, or even if in the campaign that's an issue. But this won't be my first hybrid spellcaster by a mile so it's not a negative from my point of view. If the campaign is mid to high level, I'll have to make that decision, won't I?

[stoutstien]

Indeed, my character's stats will be quite...diverse. That's part of the problem with minmaxxing, which is why I try not to do it, and why I'm asking this question at all honestly.

The good news is I don't technically need Con if I borrow the bear's Con. It just leaves me the world's most fragile Barbarian during hibernation.



I was planning on bypassing the whole "concentration" bit by burning all my spell slots as self-healing while Raging. However, maybe I should read the list first.



I have no idea what level the campaign is. If it's mid/high level, and the combo loses power, I'm less averse to trying it.

The spell slot healing that the circle of the moon provides is very inefficient. It'll chew through your spell slots very quickly. It's just a flat 1d8 per spell slot level.
Your best heal as a moon druid is to just reuse your wild shape into a new form or start your form over with max HP.

As far as when the barbearian starts to fall off, you can see it start at lv 5. You catch up a little at lv 8 (druid 6) but this is when you definitely feel the lack of offensive ability you have. Still one of the best melee controllers with grapple but your damage isn't much better than it was at lv 4.

At 12 with elemental form you have another jump in power but by now the rage preventing casting really shows. Druids have some of the best control spells in the game but are concentration heavy.

[NorthernPhoenix]

The spell slot healing that the circle of the moon provides is very inefficient. It'll chew through your spell slots very quickly. It's just a flat 1d8 per spell slot level.
Your best heal as a moon druid is to just reuse your wild shape into a new form or start your form over with max HP.

As far as when the barbearian starts to fall off, you can see it start at lv 5. You catch up a little at lv 8 (druid 6) but this is when you definitely feel the lack of offensive ability you have. Still one of the best melee controllers with grapple but your damage isn't much better than it was at lv 4.

At 12 with elemental form you have another jump in power but by now the rage preventing casting really shows. Druids have some of the best control spells in the game but are concentration heavy.

In the context of this thread, using the wildshape healing instead of casting spells is very thematic and should be encouraged. Bear-Barbarian is decently powerful, but if it was truly OP i'd ban it. Be "sub-optimal" and embrace the class-fantasy, i say.

[stoutstien]

In the context of this thread, using the wildshape healing instead of casting spells is very thematic and should be encouraged. Bear-Barbarian is decently powerful, but if it was truly OP i'd ban it. Be "sub-optimal" and embrace the class-fantasy, i say.

Oh it's not a bad feature at all but I've seen it a few times where players read it and think it can keep them rage/wild shapes up for a longer time but end up regretting it.
there's a difference between a player picking a thematic option and enjoying it knowing it's a not necessarily a good option and one that that picks an option that fits the theme and it fails to work how they envisioned it.

[GreyBlack]

Yeah, I don't see the ethics question. This is perfectly viable and, honestly, a fun way to run a character.

Absolutely do it. It's not like we're talking a coffee-lock or something.