combat tactics for chain devil

[Kobold_paladin?]

hey everyone!
so i was running a campaign and in it there is this chain devil bound to an area in one of my dungeons. my party is getting close to it and it occurred to me that i have no idea how these things fight. the monster manual flavor text didn't give me enough of an idea on how the thing would fight so i kind of need your help.:smallfrown:

here's the room:
so it's a large church-like chamber with skeletons hanging from chains on the wall. there's a spiral staircase leading up to a balcony over the entrance. on the far side of the room there's an alter with a corpse on top. the chain devil is on the balcony so that when the PCs walk in it can see them but they can't see it unless they turn around or make a perception check of 10 or higher (passive auto fails when they walk in). there's a carpet that's actually a animated object sitting harmlessly on the center of the room. the chain devil has a little orb that if it throws on the ground all dead things animate and attack, but the best it can get out of this are 2 skeletons and a zombie or 2 skeletons. *note that the bones are hanging from chains*

[DrKerosene]

Are you familiar with that series of “The Monsters Know” articles? There is a section for Chain Devils here: http://www.themonstersknow.com/devil-tactics-lesser-devils/

So, your Devil animated dead, animates chains, then personally attacks on the most powerful PC, while trying to restrain the next most powerful.

Uses it’s Gaze as best as it can.

[Kobold_paladin?]

thanks, i'll check it out.

[stoutstien]

Id suggest having ways for the NPC to move out of sight of the party, preferably after grappling somebody and drags them away, Because while they have some cool features they are fairly soft with 16 AC and less than 100 HP.
* Even with magic resistance they have a very good chance of getting taken out by a spell that targets Wis or Int.*

[Kobold_paladin?]

* Even with magic resistance they have a very good chance of getting taken out by a spell that targets Wis or Int.*

i don't see that happening with the characters that our party has. :smallannoyed:

paladin, ranged archetype fighter, open handed monk, NPC kobold that they are forcing to be their guide.

[stoutstien]

i don't see that happening with the characters that our party has. :smallannoyed:

paladin, ranged archetype fighter, open handed monk, NPC kobold that they are forcing to be their guide.

What level party? If the pally has a decent pool of spell slots it could be a very quick encounter lol.

[NorthernPhoenix]

Remember that if this is intended to be a "highlight" or "boss" monster, and/or will be fought at or close to full resources, don't be afraid to give it Legendary and Lair features to really spice up the fight.
"Default" Legendary actions can be Attack, Move, and "Special Move" (cost 2), with 3 total, but other more surprising actions can be just as fun. For Lair actions you can have a look at any creature that already has them, pick one you like and simply change the damage, save DCs and so on to numbers in line with the CR guidelines in the DMG for your fight. Or, you could make up your own!

You could also give it maximum HP (as opposed to average) if this guy is intended to be a particularly tough customer, and you don't want him dying to a single crit.

[Kobold_paladin?]

What level party? If the pally has a decent pool of spell slots it could be a very quick encounter lol.

they are level 7.

[Kobold_paladin?]

Remember that if this is intended to be a "highlight" or "boss" monster, and/or will be fought at or close to full resources, don't be afraid to give it Legendary and Lair features to really spice up the fight.
"Default" Legendary actions can be Attack, Move, and "Special Move" (cost 2), with 3 total, but other more surprising actions can be just as fun. For Lair actions you can have a look at any creature that already has them, pick one you like and simply change the damage, save DCs and so on to numbers in line with the CR guidelines in the DMG for your fight. Or, you could make up your own!

You could also give it maximum HP (as opposed to average) if this guy is intended to be a particularly tough customer, and you don't want him dying to a single crit.

he's nothing special. he can die for all i care i just want the party to be reminded that the longer the portal to the nine hells is open, the devils come into the material plane.

[stoutstien]

they are level 7.

Does the chain devil have any motivation to not be sent back to hell? It might want to use the the animated chains to prevent the party from immediately pursuing and retreat after the first round of smites which is likely to bring him down below 50% HP.

[airless_wing]

I've always wanted to run a Chain Devil. They just seem so utterly brutal.

With a solid CON score, they're likely to succeed most Stunning Strikes (unless the monk burns through most of their Ki, at which point he'll pay for that with the rest of the dungeon). The Monk is highly mobile however, and able to deal magical damage, so I'd focus on using the Animated Chain to grapple the Monk.
The smaller the room, the more powerful the Devil is, as keeping all enemies within reach of his chains is a huge boon to his damage and grappling potential.

Turn 1: Devil uses Animate Chain, placing two of the chains within reach of the party (more towards the center of the room so the party can't just easily move way from them), and the other two close to the devil.
Reaction: Use its Gaze to try and Frighten the Paladin. Keeping distance from him will be important.

After that, just Multiattack and Chain attack. If the players ignore the chains, then you're getting up to 6 attacks on a turn, all with chances to grapple.

[Kobold_paladin?]

Great! This has all been really helpful!
Just how would it's tactics intertwine with the rug?

[airless_wing]

Is it a Rug of Smothering, or just a rug hit with Animate Objects?

If it can Smother, I'd try to take out the Paladin, further limiting those Smite risks.
If it's Animated, I'd have it harass the ranged fighter. He'll be shooting at disadvantage so long as the rug is within 5 ft of him.

[stoutstien]

Great! This has all been really helpful!
Just how would it's tactics intertwine with the rug?

Away from book but are you using the rug of smothering or just animated object?

[Kobold_paladin?]

Is it a Rug of Smothering, or just a rug hit with Animate Objects?

If it can Smother, I'd try to take out the Paladin, further limiting those Smite risks.
If it's Animated, I'd have it harass the ranged fighter. He'll be shooting at disadvantage so long as the rug is within 5 ft of him.

My rug is smothering.

[stoutstien]

My rug is smothering.

I'd second have it target the pally if possible.
make sure that when you describe the room when I enter it that you mention the rug but not just the rug so it doesn't feel like a got you tactic but also not highlighted for their convenience.

[Kobold_paladin?]

when should it use the orb?

[stoutstien]

when should it use the orb?

Make the orb tossing a bonus action to prevent action economy clashing.?

[Kobold_paladin?]

that'll work.
thanks guys, i'll let you know how it went.

[Kobold_paladin?]

pardon my french but, it kicked their asses.

the first thing that happens is that the rug gets the monk (previously wounded from a fight with a necromancer) and crits, taking him down in one blow. the kobold runs behind the altar and cowers as the fighter fires silvered arrows in the direction of the chain devil. none hit. the pally starts up the stairs and attempts to smite the "wretched fiend". the chain devil kicks him down the stairs and throws the corpse-raiser orb at the ground. Yay, skeleton time. the monk succeeds his death saves as the rug leaves to take down the fighter. she turns around and trows a flask of acid at it burning a hole right through it. (can't smother anymore but has resistance to piercing damage now) the pally, stuck on the floor in his crazy-expensive, crazy-heavy mithral plate Armour struggles to get back up and fails his strength roll. the chain devil animates chains and grapples the paladin to the wall and has the skeletons stab at him repeatedly. the rug had now been disposed of by the frightened kobold firing sling stone at anything that got to close. the fighter shoots more arrows at the chain devil and hits this time. the chain devil looks at the fighter using unraveling mask and scares him. the pally breaks free and cleaves down the skeletons with his longsword. he runs at the chain devil and smacks him down with his sword, he then proceeds to lay on hands to the monk, bringing him up to action. the chain devil calls for help from the nearby room, bringing 3 cult fanatics. the fanboys all cast spiritual weapon swinging glowey energy pitchforks at the party, taking down the monk (again) and the fighter. the pally knows this can only end bad so he picks up the monk and throws him at the crowd. the he drops his sword picks up the fighter and picks the monk up again and runs like no tomorrow (not very fast considering his attire choice) they catch up pretty fast and the paladin ducks into a nearby room that the fanboys where supposed to be guarding but left to help the devil. the portal to hell. the pally proceeds to try to rip it apart only to have a brink guardian (a fiend of my own making) come out and pull him in. the fighter fails her death saves and goes bye-bye while the monk crits them coming up to one hit point. that's where i left off the session.

no matter how bad that went, thanks for the help it made my experience laughing at the fighter's controler so much better. -k_pal?

[airless_wing]

Like, I said at the start: I've always wanted to run a Chain Devil because they seem brutal.

I would say, it seems unfair to let the Paladin stand up/get out of the prone condition after being knocked down. Mithral armor in particular is ignores Str requirements, so it shouldn't be so heavy that someone couldn't get up from being knocked prone.
The Acid making the rug unable to grapple was very creative! I liked it.

[da newt]

Traditionally / per the DMG, mithral is much lighter than normal armor materials. In your world is it the opposite?

It sounds like a very dynamic and creative combat. You seem to have enjoyed it - did your Players?

[DrKerosene]

pardon my french but, it kicked their asses.

I assume a good part of that is the enemy’s Action Economy. What with a wave of undead, a wave of cultists, and apparently not healing/resting from their previous fight.

Still, sounded pretty awesome.



I designed a (Spider Climbing) Chain Devil encounter around a Reverse Gravity trap inside a chain and spike-filled cylindrical room with some Grey Oozes that got sidestepped recently, so I’m living vicariously through this.

Do you expect this Chain Devil to make a re-appearance in a different context?

[Kobold_paladin?]

I assume a good part of that is the enemy’s Action Economy. What with a wave of undead, a wave of cultists, and apparently not healing/resting from their previous fight.

Still, sounded pretty awesome.



I designed a (Spider Climbing) Chain Devil encounter around a Reverse Gravity trap inside a chain and spike-filled cylindrical room with some Grey Oozes that got sidestepped recently, so I’m living vicariously through this.

Do you expect this Chain Devil to make a re-appearance in a different context?

Actually yes, after the fight the paladin's controller asked me if the chain devil could be his nemesis and I agreed. I even named the thing because of that. So yes, i do expect it to make another appearance...

[Kobold_paladin?]

On the mithral plate, yeah I see my mistake now.