A curious idea for my Metaforge

[Ourian7491]

I currently have a Soulknife/Aegis/Metaforge build that I have become particularly fond of, and I want to maximize his potential where I can

With that being said... With the following feats and Customization, can he create a Large 2H Mindblade AND wield it one-handed?

Powerful Build (Aegis Customization)
The aegis gains the powerful build trait while wearing his astral suit. Whenever the aegis is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for a Combat Maneuver Bonus or Combat Maneuver Defense (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the aegis is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. The aegis is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as grab or swallow whole) can affect him. The aegis can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Lighten Weapon (Kobold Press Feat)
Choose one type of weapon. When using a weapon of that type you may reduce the effort required to wield it by one step but suffer a −2 penalty to hit with that weapon. This allows you to wield a weapon 1 size category larger as if it were your own size, use a two-handed weapon in one hand, or a one-handed as a light weapons.

Improved Lighten Weapon (Kobold Press Feat)
Choose a weapon when taking this feat. When using the Lighten Weapon feat, you do not suffer the associated −2 penalty to attack when using that feat with your chosen weapon.

[Psyren]

I'm no expert on the Aegis, but wouldn't Powerful Build alone allow you to wield a 2H weapon one-handed, without needing the Kobold Press stuff too?

[RatElemental]

I'm assuming you mean this for a medium sized character.

Powerful build would let you wield a large 2h weapon with two hands just fine, I'm fairly certain. I don't think those kobold feats would help at all though, but strongarm bracers might let you count as huge for the purposes of wielding weapons when stacked with powerful build. This would let you wield large size 2h weapons in one hand with a -2 size penalty.

Edit: After rereading the feats, I think they would indeed work the way you think they do.

[Ourian7491]

Well the Lighten Weapon Feats let me wield 2H weapons as 1H, and 1H as Light, and a weapon one size larger than what my character can currently handle with normal effort.

So if Powerful Build will let me wield Large weapons, lighten weapon should, in theory, let me wield a large 2H weapon in one hand



And yes, it's for a Medium character

[Segev]

Well the Lighten Weapon Feats let me wield 2H weapons as 1H, and 1H as Light, and a weapon one size larger than what my character can currently handle with normal effort.

So if Powerful Build will let me wield Large weapons, lighten weapon should, in theory, let me wield a large 2H weapon in one hand



And yes, it's for a Medium character

Planning to dual-wield Large Greatswords as easily as a lesser mortal dual-wields daggers? :smallwink:

I'm amused by the idea of a Blue Annihilator-archetype Aegis doing this, just to prove he's not small potatos.

[Ourian7491]

As entertaining as that would be, that's not the plan actually lol

I'm a Shielded Blade/Gifted Blade archetype currently and I just like the idea of having the giant sword in one hand and have the shield for Fortification and off-hand attacks as needed.

[Psyren]

Oh my bad - I missed that it was a LARGE 2HW that you wanted in one hand.

In that case - yes, you'll need something (like the kobold press feats) that makes it count as a medium 2HW if you yourself are medium + powerful build.

Remember also that in Pathfinder, you can only stack one of each type of size increase (virtual and actual). Powerful Build would be virtual, so you still have room for one actual, e.g. Expansion.

[Ourian7491]

Good to know!

Thanks for that little tip

[Segev]

Good to know!

Thanks for that little tip

Notably, Expansion will increase the weapon's size along with you.


You say you're having a blast with the metaforge, and I definitely don't want to dampen taht, but I'm curious: what makes it more fun than a straight Soulknife with the Telekinetic Armor feature to build magic armor with? I've looked at the metaforge before, and I've always been left thinking mixing the two isn't as good as running just one, especially with the option for "soul armor."

What customizations do you favor, and how do you make the Aegis and the Soulknife sides synergize effectively? What's the cool, fun stuff you do? (Genuinely interested; again, not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but hoping to pick up some of it from new ideas that I missed.)

[Kris Moonhand]

Oh my bad - I missed that it was a LARGE 2HW that you wanted in one hand.

In that case - yes, you'll need something (like the kobold press feats) that makes it count as a medium 2HW if you yourself are medium + powerful build.

Remember also that in Pathfinder, you can only stack one of each type of size increase (virtual and actual). Powerful Build would be virtual, so you still have room for one actual, e.g. Expansion.
I think Powerful Build very specifically does stack, since it says "The benefits of this trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category."

[Ourian7491]

You say you're having a blast with the metaforge, and I definitely don't want to dampen taht, but I'm curious: what makes it more fun than a straight Soulknife with the Telekinetic Armor feature to build magic armor with? I've looked at the metaforge before, and I've always been left thinking mixing the two isn't as good as running just one, especially with the option for "soul armor."

What customizations do you favor, and how do you make the Aegis and the Soulknife sides synergize effectively? What's the cool, fun stuff you do? (Genuinely interested; again, not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but hoping to pick up some of it from new ideas that I missed.)

1) Customizations - The one that REALLY makes it fun for me is the Initiator's Soul from Path of War. Elemental Flux and Riven Hourglass Disciplines are a nasty combination. On top of that, Augmented Weapon, Powerful Build (Now that it's confirmed to work how I want), and Flight with an added point pumped into it makes me hit hard and I can avoid most issues with terrain and my fly speed allows me to get around the reduction in speed from Astral Armor and Juggernaut. And Reach improves my threat range and attack range with my weapon.

2) Synergy - I have a very specific split of class levels and have taken certain traits and feats to make it work effectively. First, the level split I will be aiming for is Soulknife 11/Aegis 6/Metaforge 3. Two Feats that really make this work (and are well worth the feat selection) are "Student of the Astral Suit" and "Fighter's Blade". Both can basically represent an additional +4 levels for Enhanced Mindblade, Customization Points, Customization and Blade Skill selection, and Damage Reduction. I have Natural Blade and Psionic Knack as Traits, which increases my effective Soulknife level by 2 when concerning manifester level and Enhanced Mindblade, though Imy DM only allowed Psionic Knack since I started at Level 3, which is when Gifted Blade gets its Manifester Level. Combine that with the Metaforge's boost to Aegis and Soulknife, Soulknife is effectively a Level 20 for EMB, and Aegis is considered a Level 13 for his Damage Reduction and Customization Points/Selection

3) Archetype and Initiator - Shielded Blade is, in my opinion, VASTLY underestimated... passive Shield AC that scales with enhancement bonuses AND Shield properties for FREE? AND you can attack with it?! (Without drawbacks AND with Weapon Properties with the right set-up) Gifted Blade is amazing and it opens up the possibility to a particularly nasty combo with a psicrystal. Vigor and Share Pain used on you and your psicrystal makes you an extremely effective damage soaker. And with flight, high AC and Fortification (from the suit or your Mindshield) you wont be getting hit much. (I'm currently a Level 10 and I drive my DM batty because I hover 10 ft above my opponent and will strike at them with reach weapon attacks while they cant get near me or can fly, then they gotta deal with my AC (27 in Astral Skin form and around 30-33 in Armor and Juggernaut forms). Then add on the Initiator stuff and you are dishing out massive damage, healing yourself, negating attacks and sometimes spells, AC buffs, etc. And with this particular level set-up, you have access to 3rd level Powers and 6th Level Maneuvers/Stances, which is MORE than enough for what you need. 6th Level Stances and Maneuvers for Riven Hourglass and elemental Flux are absolutely amazing, including a passive Haste buff when using Riven Stance and a free energy weapon that deals 4d6 damage of your active element in damage when using Flux Stance, an elemental surge AoE that deals 12d6-20d6 in elemental damage to all targets within 20' of you, a counter that can negate a spell and heal you for 5 hit points per level of the spell negated.

I have a LOT of fun with this lol

[Rynjin]

Comparing Metaforge to Soulknife isn't really the right way to go about, is what I think a lot of people miss. Comparing it to a straight Aegis is where Metaforge's strengths really shine through. Aegii lose basically nothing from the multiclass, and gain a whole lot; arguably a lot more than they would staying in Aegis until 20.

While I do think straight Soulknife is better than Metaforge (since 90% of the class' power comes from the Blade Skills), I think you need to have a pretty good reason to NOT go Metaforge if your "main" class is Aegis, since precisely 100% of the class' power comes from Customization points...which you don't lose any of. So for the low, low price of some ribbon abilities like Perfect Merger, you gain a scaling weapon (freeing up a lot of wealth), a Bonus Feat, and one Blade Skill, all of which are a more than even trade.

[Ourian7491]

Comparing Metaforge to Soulknife isn't really the right way to go about, is what I think a lot of people miss. Comparing it to a straight Aegis is where Metaforge's strengths really shine through. Aegii lose basically nothing from the multiclass, and gain a whole lot; arguably a lot more than they would staying in Aegis until 20.

While I do think straight Soulknife is better than Metaforge (since 90% of the class' power comes from the Blade Skills), I think you need to have a pretty good reason to NOT go Metaforge if your "main" class is Aegis, since precisely 100% of the class' power comes from Customization points...which you don't lose any of. So for the low, low price of some ribbon abilities like Perfect Merger, you gain a scaling weapon (freeing up a lot of wealth), a Bonus Feat, and one Blade Skill, all of which are a more than even trade.

Well said

Also want to point out that if you are also using the Shielded Blade Archetype, you get a scaling Heavy Steel Shield as well

[Psyren]

I think Powerful Build very specifically does stack, since it says "The benefits of this trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category."

Something that changes the subject's size category would be an actual increase, so yes, it would stack with the virtual one.