Dragon Patron Warlock?

[Yakmala]

I have a new player in my homebrew game that wants to play a warlock with a dragon patron. I like the idea and see three ways of going about this.

1: Make up my own homebrew rules for the patron. Rules design is always fun.
2: Re-skin an existing patron. Less work, already balanced, but not as fun.
3: Find an existing set of dragon patron rules.

In regards to #3, is anyone aware of any good dragon patron write-ups? Either via UA or other homebrew materials? Even if I decide to go with option #1, it would be good to see how others have approached this.

[Garfunion]

I would strongly recommend going with #2, for balance reasons.

Now the next question is what do you think a dragon patron would give someone?

[JellyPooga]

If it were me, I'd reskin the Fiend Patron and call it a day. It's pretty damned close enough to fit and saves a whole heap of work. If they wanted a non-fire breathing dragon patron, just change all the fire damage to their colour-coded element of choice.

[sandmote]

For #2, I'm not sure what would fit. Hexblade could be refluffed as claws and some sort of grudge. Otherwise, Archfey for a Metallic Dragon and Fiend for a Chrmoatic one?

Or combine options #1 and #2: take an existing patron and swap out the spells and maybe 1 feature to get something recognizably different.



For #3, shameless self plug here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?577537-By-the-Power-of-Dragons-The-Dragon-Patron-(PEACH)). The draconic theme is mostly to provide boosts to a melee warlock though.

It led Great Dragon to try one here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24039338&postcount=20). It started as a knockoff of the Draconic Soul Sorcerer, but seems to have gotten some more differentiation since I last checked.

[HappyDaze]

In 5e dragons don't tend to use much magic at all. It makes the draconic sorcerer seem weird, and a dragon-based warlock would seem even more so. I think the first thing you'd need to do before making the patron is decide what kind of magical abilities dragons use in your setting.

[Trask]

I'd go for #2. Archfey, Celestial, or Fiend all work perfectly fine depending on what kind of dragon it is. For a Smaug-like fire breathing tyrant Fiend works perfect right out of the box. For a tricky, slumbering forest dragon Archfey has you covered. And for guardian dragons and servants of Good then Celestial is fine.

[Arkhios]

Since I love to tinker with the rules, here's a very rough sketch for your Option #1

1: Patron features: Choose Dragon Type, Patron spells tailored for appropriate type (Obviously Dragon's Breath has to be one), Dragon Claws (as unarmed strike w/1d4 slashing, add charisma to hit and damage like with Hex Warrior; maybe Unarmored Defense as Draconic Sorcerer)
6: Patron feature: Elemental Affinity (as with Draconic sorcerer, but without damage type resistance)
10: Patron feature: Permanent resistance to your chosen Dragon's damage type?
14: Patron feature: Dragon Wings (as draconic sorcerer)


In 5e dragons don't tend to use much magic at all. It makes the draconic sorcerer seem weird, and a dragon-based warlock would seem even more so. I think the first thing you'd need to do before making the patron is decide what kind of magical abilities dragons use in your setting.

Actually, Monster Manual presents Dragons as Innate Spellcasters as a variant, so it's not entirely nonexistent conceptually in 5e.
This has been the case in 5th edition since the 1st printing of Monster Manual, so it's not a recent addition either. It depends largely whether you (as the DM) or your DM prefers to use the variant or not.
Besides, this leaves it open whether dragons are spellcasting creatures in any given setting.

Regarding Sorcerer's Draconic Bloodline it is certainly a bit weird because while the name suggests the powers are in fact inherited (as you might expect to be the case with a bloodline), the description also suggests an alternative that your draconic powers are the result of a magical experiment.

[Garfunion]

In 5e dragons don't tend to use much magic at all. It makes the draconic sorcerer seem weird, and a dragon-based warlock would seem even more so. I think the first thing you'd need to do before making the patron is decide what kind of magical abilities dragons use in your setting.

This is why I’m working on an homebrew re-write of the draconic bloodline. Where the sorcerer’s bloodline comes from Bahamut/Tiamat. Long ago these two dragon gods walked and mingled with the mortal realm for a time, the sorcerer is a direct descendant. I want to make it less dragon type(colors/metallic) but still maintain draconic feature. Perhaps making it a bit more melee focused. However I’m still pondering on it.

[Witty Username]

In 5e dragons don't tend to use much magic at all. It makes the draconic sorcerer seem weird, and a dragon-based warlock would seem even more so. I think the first thing you'd need to do before making the patron is decide what kind of magical abilities dragons use in your setting.

It is weird that having a dragon great grand-pappy that can't cast spells gives a sorcerer access full spell progression. I personally would add the Arch mage spell list and slots to any ancient dragon.

I would use Fiend as a base.
It works fine as is for a red, gold, or brass dragon; for the others changing the fire spells to lightning, acid, cold or poison would probably be in order. Hallow actually seems on brand for establishing a lair, maybe suggest using it for energy vulnerability, fear or darkness to keep it most on brand.
You may need to make some new spells to fit the dragon or just swap the damage type on the existing ones and never look back.

[Yakmala]

Great replies so far, thanks!

It seems like the majority is suggesting a re-skin of Fiend, and I definitely see the wisdom in that. Though I'll likely do some tinkering, including:


Learning Draconic at Level 1.
Replace Scorching Ray with Dragon's Breath in the 2nd level spell slot.
Fiendish Resilience at Level 10 becomes Draconic Resilience and resists the damage type of the patron dragon.

[Greywander]

Oddly enough, I was just thinking about this myself. I'm running a draconic themed character testing out some homebrew multiclass rules, and a warlock dip is eventually inevitable. While I'm not normally wild about the Fiend patron, it does seem the closest fit. The only problematic ability is Hurl Through Hell. I'm not sure why dragon powers would allow you to banish someone for a turn and then deal a buttload of psychic damage to them.

[gloryblaze]

Oddly enough, I was just thinking about this myself. I'm running a draconic themed character testing out some homebrew multiclass rules, and a warlock dip is eventually inevitable. While I'm not normally wild about the Fiend patron, it does seem the closest fit. The only problematic ability is Hurl Through Hell. I'm not sure why dragon powers would allow you to banish someone for a turn and then deal a buttload of psychic damage to them.

Change it to a breath weapon that deals 10d8 of the appropriate damage type in a 60-foot cone, Dex save for half. Warlock subclass capstone features usually are roughly as powerful as a 6th-level spell, so 10d8 AoE is pretty much right on the money (same damage amount but situationally worse targeting schema than Chain Lightning, slightly better than a 6th-level Cone of Cold) and a breath weapon is very thematic.

[HappyDaze]

The only problematic ability is Hurl Through Hell. I'm not sure why dragon powers would allow you to banish someone for a turn and then deal a buttload of psychic damage to them.

If it helps, envision it as a ghostly dragon swallowing them and then quickly passing them through & crapping them out...

Now the psychic damage makes some sense, no?

[Arkhios]

If it helps, envision it as a ghostly dragon swallowing them and then quickly passing them through & crapping them out...

Now the psychic damage makes some sense, no?

Or, maybe just skipping the digesting system to just being chomped by a ghostly dragon. That ought to cause severe mental trauma already (remember, hit points aren't only meat) :smallbiggrin:

[HappyDaze]

Or, maybe just skipping the digesting system to just being chomped by a ghostly dragon. That ought to cause severe mental trauma already (remember, hit points aren't only meat) :smallbiggrin:

Oh, no...

They have to go through hell.

[Warlush]

I have a new player in my homebrew game that wants to play a warlock with a dragon patron. I like the idea and see three ways of going about this.

1: Make up my own homebrew rules for the patron. Rules design is always fun.

Yes! It's a home game, so it's easy to fix if it's unbalanced.
I would give them some dragony stuff.
Maybe,
Lvl 1
Natural scale armor, 13+ Dex
Expend a spell slot for an AoE elemental breath weapon.
Lvl 6
Something underwhelming and defense oriented that can only be used once per long rest.
Lvl 10
Something defense oriented and seemingly very powerful but only in rare situations or once a day.
Lvl 14
Something so powerful you DM will be sure to end the champaign at lvl 13.
Like concentration free flight, a permanent thrall, no save banish+55 damage, giant blinding AoE, etc.

[ravencroft0]

I have to agree with the other posts. Please keep in mind when it comes to Dragon patron warlocks, these are what were called dragonfire adepts back in the 3.5 days. Their "eldritch blast" was an at-will ability, not a spell. And it did deal fire damage initially, but careful invocation selection (they had their own list separate from normal warlocks) would let you change the damage to any dragon element iirc.

Reskinning is a fine choice, but throw in invocations for flight, an eldritch blast/breath weapon damage changer, and a hard defensive option if you're not reskinning the Fiend patron, as dragonfire adepts also had inherent bonuses to AC.

[Chronos]

There really SHOULD be a draconic warlock, though, if for no other reason than to allow conversion of 3rd edition dragonfire adepts.

[Joe the Rat]

Great replies so far, thanks!

It seems like the majority is suggesting a re-skin of Fiend, and I definitely see the wisdom in that. Though I'll likely do some tinkering, including:


Learning Draconic at Level 1.
Replace Scorching Ray with Dragon's Breath in the 2nd level spell slot.
Fiendish Resilience at Level 10 becomes Draconic Resilience and resists the damage type of the patron dragon.


I think that should cover your bases well. My disappointment at Dragon's breath not being on the Warlock list was palpable.

From a fluff side, encourage the notion of 'exhaling' some of your magics. While King Gidorah style Eldritch Gravity Blast Bolts isn't everyone's cup of tea, I've had good results with spitting fire spells and sacred flame gouts from my Bahamut-aligned Celestial Warlock (Celestial is actually pretty good for a gold / brass dragon)


I have to agree with the other posts. Please keep in mind when it comes to Dragon patron warlocks, these are what were called dragonfire adepts back in the 3.5 days. Their "eldritch blast" was an at-will ability, not a spell. And it did deal fire damage initially, but careful invocation selection (they had their own list separate from normal warlocks) would let you change the damage to any dragon element iirc.

Reskinning is a fine choice, but throw in invocations for flight, an eldritch blast/breath weapon damage changer, and a hard defensive option if you're not reskinning the Fiend patron, as dragonfire adepts also had inherent bonuses to AC.Five-Fold Wrath was crazy.
The other one to look at raiding is the Dragon Shaman, the absolute misfit toy of 3.5. This dragon-heavy pseudopaladin was centered on Auras of all things - There might be some good raids from the Paladin list in that regard.

I'd probably just skip the skin game - a dip into Dragonblood Sorc would pick that up, or you can just Armor of Shadows some nice scales. though if you were looking to replace Dark One's Blessing...

14th level feature? Give 'em wings. It's no Hurl through Hell or Illusory Terrain Bellgrande, but by Invocation math at-will flight should hit around 13. Alternatively, something akin to Breath of Bahamut or Fivefold Wrath would be pretty on-flavor (a 10d6 Laser of Force, or a series of Fire/Cold/Acid/Poison/Lightning blasts all at once)

[MaxWilson]

From a fluff side, encourage the notion of 'exhaling' some of your magics. While King Gidorah style Eldritch Gravity Blast Bolts isn't everyone's cup of tea, I've had good results with spitting fire spells and sacred flame gouts from my Bahamut-aligned Celestial Warlock (Celestial is actually pretty good for a gold / brass dragon)

Make that the sixth-level ability maybe: when you cast a spell which *only* has the effect of dealing damage of your dragon's type, you can opt instead to exhale it as dragon breath, which does not count as spellcasting for Counterspell or Magic Resistance purposes and does not require verbal, somatic, or material components.

Yes, you can now breathe Lightning Bolts by spending spell slots.

[Arkhios]

There really SHOULD be a draconic warlock, though, if for no other reason than to allow conversion of 3rd edition dragonfire adepts.

Now, there's an idea. Make the Dragonfire Adepts be the Draconic "Patronage". Kinda like Hexblades, really.

[Winter Phocks]

I have a homebrew great wyrm patron warlock.
It needs more play testing.

The players that have tried it so far have enjoyed it. Let me know if your interest.

Bestows Parton breathe weapon. Evocations to empower their warlocks abilities with draconic power and become an avatar of their patron.

[JadedDM]

I recently found myself wondering why there is no dragon patron warlock. It seems so obvious. But anyway, there is a fanmade one from Dragonlance here (https://dragonlancenexus.com/dragonlance-warlock-patrons-sentience-of-the-art-dragon-overlord/). It's meant for Dragon Overlords (basically super dragons), but I don't see why you couldn't make it fit for any kind of dragons. Likewise, it is meant only for Chromatics, but you could probably easily work Metallics in there, too.


DRAGON OVERLORD
The great chromatic dragon overlords possess immense power, some of which comes from their skull totems. They have many servants that do their bidding, such as dragon vassals and dragonspawn, but none serve as willingly as their warlocks that venerate the massive beasts as masters. The dragons impart some of their power (and the power of their totems) to these spellcasters, who work at the behest of the dragons in most aspects. The dragon lords that have devoted warlocks are usually the primary overlords (Beryl, Malys, Frost, Khellendros, or Sable), but many minor dragon overlords have made territories for themselves and used their own skull totems to shape the land around them. These minor chromatic overlords can also be patrons for warlocks when they want to be.

EXPANDED SPELL LIST
The Dragon Overlord lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.

DRAGON OVERLORD EXPANDED SPELLS
Spell Level Spells
1st absorb elements, chromatic orb
2nd alter self, dragon’s breath
3rd elemental weapon, protection from energy
4th freedom of movement, stoneskin
5th conjure elemental, dominate person

DRACONIC ARCANE GIFT
At 1st level you gain a cantrip that is added to your spell list that does not count towards cantrips known, depending on the chromatic color of the dragon lord you serve: Black/Green-acid splash, Blue-shocking grasp, Red-fire bolt, White-ray of frost. You also gain proficiency in the Perception skill.


MINOR DRACONIC GIFT
At 6th level, your proficiency bonus is doubled for Wisdom (Perception) checks. Also, as an action, you may manifest a dragon-like Frightful Presence. Each creature of the warlock’s choice that is within 30 feet of the warlock and aware of it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. The save DC for this ability is the warlock’s spell DC. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature’s saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the warlock’s Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours. You can’t use Frightful Presence again until you finish a long rest.

MAJOR DRACONIC GIFT
At 10th level, you feel none of the fear that your patron exudes, and are immune to the frightened condition. Also, your Frightful Presence extends out to 60 feet and you are able to telepathically communicate with your dragon patron if you are on the same plane as they are.

MASTER’S CALLING
At 14th level as an action you may cast Teleport to arrive at the location of your patron or your patron’s skull totem as if they or it were an “Associated object”. Once you use this feature, you may not do so again for 7 days. The dragon overlord may teleport you to it’s side at any time with no chance of failure.

You also gain proficiency in all saving throws as a final boon from your master.

[D.U.P.A.]

I always had an impression there is no dragon patron because there is already draconic sorcerer doing this job. But it also may be pacts are usually made with extraplanar beings, while dragons are mostly in material world. Sure there are some extraplanar dragons, but they have other types, like Tiamat being a fiend and Bahamut being a celestial.

Now if a player is okay if he is playing a draconic sorcerer mechanically, but have more like warlock-y origins how he became a sorcerer, that a dragon (physically or metaphysically) imbued him with powers. But if he wants to eldritch blasting and having short rest based spells of course this will not work.

[RedMage125]

I had a player who made a Dragonborn Fey-Pact Warlock that he flavored as a pact with an Ancient Faerie Dragon. He used Poison (green bloodline) as his breath weapon (flavored as the euphoric gas of a faerie dragon), and his eldritch blast was a beam of rainbow-colored light.

[Rebonack]

I would say build a subclass. It's fun and not that hard. And quite frankly it takes some real effort to build something more unbalanced compared to all the other options than Hexblade.

As a general rule of thumb the first level option should be about as potent as a first level spell once per short rest. These options can scale with your level.

Sixth level should be a defensive option about on par with a second level spell once per short rest.

10th is usually some kind of secondary defensive effect that's always available.

14th should track with a 7th level spell if per day or a 5th level spell if per short rest.