Modifying the Bard as non magical, more "realistic"

[mictrepanier]

I modified the Bard as the Philosopher, using INT instead of CHA and changing the words fluff. Cosmetic changes.

I'll like to know if my bardic inspiration nerf (in scope and flexibility, not mere power) is balanced by the non magical nature of the "spells". Anti-magic is situational, so it may be hard to balance. I nerfed healing, using Hit Point Dice as an additional resource.

There is always a trick
Philosophical knowledge is not countered with a dispell magic spell, an anti-magic sphere and other featured limiting magic. The focus also becomes superfluous. However, healing now draws from the life dice of the recipients. Any healing spell requires a Hit Dice from the recipient in addition to a spell slot. For the other spells, a "scientific" explanation can be provided, see the appendix.





Philosophical advice (instead of bardic inspiration )
You have an amazing general education, from academic source, and you never forget lecturing others. To do this, use a bonus action on your turn to assess a fight, a problem to be solved or an imminent danger. Then choose a creature other than yourself within 60' of you who can hear you. This creature is granted a Philosopher's Council die (d6), which applies to a given situation, This creature can keep the die roll and add the number obtained to an ability check, attack or save roll it just made as long as the advice is still applicable. Once the Philosopher's advice die is rolled, it is consumed. A creature can only have one Philosopher advice die at a time. For example, the advice may relate to an orc who has a weakness noticed by the philosopher in the previous round; on an increased method to better climb a mountain or to resist a possible poisoned dart.

You can use this ability a number of times equal to your intelligence modifier (minimum 1). You regain your Philosopher advice dice after completing a long rest. Your Philosopher advice die changes when you reach certain levels in this class. The die goes to a d8 at level 5, a d10 at level 10, and a d12 at level 15.

Your opinion ?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'll like to know if my bardic inspiration nerf (in scope and flexibility, not mere power) is balanced by the non magical nature of the "spells"

I think you're skipping over the important part of the modifications here. You're taking a full spellcaster, and making it nonmagical by keeping all the spells exactly the same, except they count as non-magical now? So fluff-wise feather fall is now you yelling at your falling ally to flap their arms, but mechanically it functions exactly as before except it can't be counterspelled? And polymorph is you thinking about a tyrannosaurus really hard and channeling its rage so you can suddenly perform a bite attack to a person standing on a roof?

I'm kind of lost on how that's more realistic than saying this is a magical world so magic exists. But sure, fine. My question is: is this actually what you're doing, or are you modifying spell casting in some other way you didn't explain?

[JNAProductions]

You basically changed nothing, other than making them Int-based and making their magic completely non-magical.

That's... That's pretty much a straight upgrade. Charisma is arguably better than Intelligence, but immunity to Dispel Magic, Counterspell, Antimagic Field, and dead magic areas more than makes up for it. Especially since that would, with your last Magical Secrets, allow you to cast Antimagic Field and render yourself IMMUNE to all enemy magic, while still using your full allotment of spells.

I guess the Healing thing is a minor nerf, but considering healing is generally used for pop-up, not full heals, it's not very impactful.

[mictrepanier]

I'm kind of lost on how that's more realistic than saying this is a magical world so magic exists. But sure, fine. My question is: is this actually what you're doing, or are you modifying spell casting in some other way you didn't explain?

D&D is not realistic. Crossbow expert, as an example, enable reloading crossbows really fast. Just say you have an invisible servant, a loading device, etc. The change is cosmetical, so far you can (remotely) get an explanation.

My question was about balance: is anti-magic immunity worthing Hit Point Dice nerfing and nerfed bard inspiration ?

[mictrepanier]

I think you're skipping over the important part of the modifications here. You're taking a full spellcaster, and making it nonmagical by keeping all the spells exactly the same, except they count as non-magical now? So fluff-wise feather fall is now you yelling at your falling ally to flap their arms, but mechanically it functions exactly as before except it can't be counterspelled? And polymorph is you thinking about a tyrannosaurus really hard and channeling its rage so you can suddenly perform a bite attack to a person standing on a roof?


I don,t want to change anything with the spells system. Yes, Bard has gadgets for all these effects. of course, since a lot of DM don't give material components a damn, it might be hard to figure out...



I'm kind of lost on how that's more realistic than saying this is a magical world so magic exists. But sure, fine. My question is: is this actually what you're doing, or are you modifying spell casting in some other way you didn't explain?

Magic exists. Magical Secrets may or not be magical. But main spells cannot be nullyfing. We have to quantify it. Are cantrips the only spells that cannot be nullify ? Then, those granted by magical secrets should not be nulligy as well ?

Only enchantment, only illusions ? etc.

[JNAProductions]

It is in no way balanced. Immunity to all forms of magic negation is not a fair trade off for having to spend hit dice on healing spells.

[mictrepanier]

It is in no way balanced. Immunity to all forms of magic negation is not a fair trade off for having to spend hit dice on healing spells.

Immunity to enchantment and illusions anti-magic only (use of mesmerism, not magic) ? These are most of Bard spells, with healing already nerfed.

[JNAProductions]

The Bard is a powerful class. You've barely nerfed it, then gave it a huge buff. The two do not balance out.

[mictrepanier]

The Bard is a powerful class. You've barely nerfed it, then gave it a huge buff. The two do not balance out.

Then I will have to add something to the bardic inspiration vs the healing and inspiration nerf. I don't like adding an advantage on top of the dice. Helping as bonus action as the Mastermind ?

[JNAProductions]

Then I will have to add something to the bardic inspiration vs the healing and inspiration nerf. I don't like adding an advantage on top of the dice. Helping as bonus action as the Mastermind ?

Are you... Are you talking about adding MORE buffs?

[mictrepanier]

Are you... Are you talking about adding MORE buffs?

If I remove the nullify magic, yes, of course.

[Composer99]

D&D is not realistic. Crossbow expert, as an example, enable reloading crossbows really fast. Just say you have an invisible servant, a loading device, etc. The change is cosmetical, so far you can (remotely) get an explanation.

Doesn't someone's forum sig have a line about there being a difference between stretching the willing suspension of disbelief and hanging it from the neck until it is dead?

Magic that isn't magic because reasons, except that it works just like magic but you can't use magic to counter it... well, suffice to say that such a thing strikes me as completely disregarding what passes for verisimilitude in the game world, even taking into account the lax standards of D&D on that score.


My question was about balance: is anti-magic immunity worthing Hit Point Dice nerfing and nerfed bard inspiration ?

No. The immunity to anti-magic and other spell-countering effects is far stronger than the nerfs.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

D&D is not realistic.

You're the one who said you were trying to make the bard more realistic. I'm not asking for realism, and I don't need to be explained that d&d is not realistic. I just wanted to be clear on what you are trying to acxomplish here.

(Also, I wouldn't quite put being really good at quickly cocking a crossbow in the same category as being able to change into a dinosaur, magically ot not.)

[mictrepanier]

(Also, I wouldn't quite put being really good at quickly cocking a crossbow in the same category as being able to change into a dinosaur, magically ot not.)

I'll need something somewhat believable like the crossbow reload, not totally magical like the dinosaur shapeshift.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Also/addendum/stand alone edit: I wasn't thinking gadgets. The way you described the other features plus the name philosopher made me think of a very hands-off philosopher, someone who thinks and speaks but doesn't do. Gadgets are... better, if you're going for semi-believable. Not as believable as quickly reloading a crossbow maybe, but certainly not at the level of becoming a tyrannosaurus by thinking about it really hard. Combined with proper spell choices that might actually work for the concept as you seem to be intending it.