Summoning creatures. Does it involve planar travel or teleporation?

[Corran]

I didn't ask this in the RAW thread cause I am guessing that the (obvious) answer is a ''yes'', but I am hoping for it to be more complicated and allow some room to maneuver, so here it goes.

Do the summoning spells (at least the kind that you use to summon a creature you intend to bind with planar binding) assume in general and unless stated otherwise in their description, that planar travel or at the very least teleportation of some sort is involved in actually summoning it?

I am asking to figure out the exact interaction between the various summoning spells and Mordenkainen's private sanctum (in case I want to bind something that can teleport).

Thanks in advance.

[Man_Over_Game]

I mean, they are all conjuration spells, which means they are all related to planar travel in some way.

Evocation is about the creation of raw energy, while Transmutation is about manipulating the matter you already have. With Conjuration, you're "pulling" it from somewhere else, not necessarily creating solid objects or a creature, but simply "borrowing" them.

[Corran]

Yeah, it makes sense. Unfortunately..:smallsigh:

[ThePolarBear]

I mean, they are all conjuration spells, which means they are all related to planar travel in some way.

While i agree that, in general, summoning spells do in fact summon from somewhere, the Conjuration school is explicitly not limited to "moving things".

"Some conjurations create objects or effects out of nothing." (phb, 203)

One such example is Create Food and Water.

[Man_Over_Game]

While i agree that, in general, summoning spells do in fact summon from somewhere, the Conjuration school is explicitly not limited to "moving things".

"Some conjurations create objects or effects out of nothing." (phb, 203)

One such example is Create Food and Water.

You're right, I just kinda mentally categorize it as "pulling various elements together to copy a simple schematic in my head", as a means of trying to make sense of DnD's magic and cosmology.

[Keravath]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

"Do the summoning spells (at least the kind that you use to summon a creature you intend to bind with planar binding) assume in general and unless stated otherwise in their description, that planar travel or at the very least teleportation of some sort is involved in actually summoning it?"

Do the summoning spells open a planar portal or teleport their target? The RAW answer is no. None of these spells state that they either teleport or open a planar gate. All they say is that they "summon" the target creature which depending on the spell may be a specific creature from another place or may be a spirit that assumes the form of such a creature. The spells do not in general discuss how that creature gets to you. This puts the decision as to whether the sanctum would block conjuring spells cast inside it completely up to the DM, though personally I would tend to rule that it does not block the use of conjuring spells or any other spell that doesn't specifically mention teleportation or planar travel.

On the principle that the rules say just what they are supposed to mean then these spells bring the creature into existence in your location by "summoning" ... not by teleportation or by opening a planar gate. In comparison, the Gate spell actually specifies that it opens a portal to another plane of existence.

[MrStabby]

So yes, the spell summons them rather than creates them. There is magic involved, tha basic element of which is that they were somewhere else, they are now here. Certainly at least teleportation. If the creature is native to another plane, then a planar movement element is to be expected.

[Keravath]

So yes, the spell summons them rather than creates them. There is magic involved, tha basic element of which is that they were somewhere else, they are now here. Certainly at least teleportation. If the creature is native to another plane, then a planar movement element is to be expected.

Logically, you are absolutely correct that the creature or spirit is somehow transported to your current location. However, in D&D, both teleportation and planar travel are both specific things. In addition, the rules don't say that those two mechanisms are the only possible ways for something to be transported from one place to another.

For example, does something that blocks teleportation and planar travel prevent resurrection or raise dead? Does it prevent the soul from rejoining the body? If not, then the summoning spells that summon spirits to take the form of a creature might operate using the same mechanisms as resurrection ... drawing a spirit or soul into a locally created body. The rules don't say.

In a similar way, when you summon a creature like a fey, do you physically move it to your current location or is the spirit of the creature temporarily placed in a locally created body?

RAW, the spells only discuss that the creatures are summoned. If blocking teleportation and planar travel blocks souls or spirits then it also blocks resurrection magics since the soul would be unable to return to the body you create or are trying to restore to life. Personally, I don't interpret it that way.

Anyway, the OP appeared to be asking about RAW ... and as far as I can tell, the summoning spells aren't explicitly written to rely on teleportation or planar travel in most cases ... they "summon" which could involve transporting the soul or spirit of the summoned creature into a locally conjured body or some other mechanism I can't even imagine. However, RAW, since the summon spells do not mention teleportation or planar travel being used to create the local creatures that are summoned I would tend to say that Mordenkainen's private sanctum would not block the use of summoning spells.

P.S. Since the summoning mechanism isn't defined nor is it stated that it involves either teleportation or planar travel ... it is up to the DM to decide how summoning works in their world. The bottom line is ask your DM :)

[cZak]

So yes, the spell summons them rather than creates them. There is magic involved, tha basic element of which is that they were somewhere else, they are now here. Certainly at least teleportation. If the creature is native to another plane, then a planar movement element is to be expected.

Pulling that string...
Is there a way to summon a specific creature each time?
Fiends and such have names that can be used, but can I call Ralph each time I cast Conjure elemental? If I give Ralph an item, does it go with when the summoning ends or fall to the ground?

Previous editions (I believe) said no; the creature had to physically cross over & back (Gate)
But I like the idea of being able to call a known associate that's willing to help me out :smallsmile:

[MrStabby]

Pulling that string...
Is there a way to summon a specific creature each time?
Fiends and such have names that can be used, but can I call Ralph each time I cast Conjure elemental? If I give Ralph an item, does it go with when the summoning ends or fall to the ground?

Previous editions (I believe) said no; the creature had to physically cross over & back (Gate)
But I like the idea of being able to call a known associate that's willing to help me out :smallsmile:

I believe summon stead and find familiar are both referencing a consitent entity; I agree in general that adding more flavour to the summoning spells is a good thing so you can build more of a bond witht the creature you summon.

[Keravath]

I believe summon stead and find familiar are both referencing a consitent entity; I agree in general that adding more flavour to the summoning spells is a good thing so you can build more of a bond witht the creature you summon.

Just a quick comment:

Find Familiar: "You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose", "Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the familiar has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast."

Find Steed: "You summon a spirit that assumes the form of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed, creating a long-lasting bond with it. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the steed takes on a form that you choose, such as a warhorse, a pony, a camel, an elk, or a mastiff."

"The steed has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type. Additionally, if your steed has an Intelligence of 5 or less, its Intelligence becomes 6, and it gains the ability to understand one language of your choice that you speak."

Both these spells summon a spirit that takes on a specific form. That form did not exist before the spell was cast. (It was a spirit not a beast).

Neither spell explicitly states that the same spirit is summoned every time the spell is cast.

Find familiar says: "When the familiar drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. It reappears after you cast this spell again" ... the familiar reappears when the spell is cast but it does not say that it is the same spirit that assumes this form. If it had any items they would drop to the ground when the familiar drops to zero hit points since it does not leave behind a physical form.

However, you can temporarily dismiss your familiar as an action. The spell does not say if it can take any items it is carrying with it. This is a DM call but personally I would tend to allow it. "As an action, you can temporarily dismiss your
familiar. It disappears into a pocket dimension where it awaits your summons."

Both find familiar and find steed say that the familiar or steed is summoned again when the spell is cast but it does again not say it is the same spirit. As a result, it is a DM call as to whether you get the same spirit or not.

However, keep in mind that the summoned familiar always obeys your commands: "Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands." You can certainly role play any sort of interaction you like with the spirit animating your familiar but they will always obey your commands. They can't argue, don't have a choice, so it is up to the player/character how much personality is appropriate.

[DrKerosene]

I would default to the 3.5e concept of Summoning creatures vs Calling creatures. https://www.enworld.org/threads/whats-the-difference-between-summoned-and-called-creatures.70141/

IIRC, there was a roleplaying fluff blurb in the 3.5e DMG that said Players could choose to cast “Summon Monster X” and hypothetically summon one to four fiendish hawks. If you wanted to permit it, you could always summon the same fhawk “Dave” first, and then maybe Harry, Larry, & Moe in that order if you summon 2 or 3 fhawks. But if you wanted, you could designate Larry to be the primary/first Fhawk summoned. At least I’m pretty sure you could pretend to have a consistent relationship with a spirit.

[MrStabby]

Both find familiar and find steed say that the familiar or steed is summoned again when the spell is cast but it does again not say it is the same spirit. As a result, it is a DM call as to whether you get the same spirit or not.

However, keep in mind that the summoned familiar always obeys your commands: "Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands." You can certainly role play any sort of interaction you like with the spirit animating your familiar but they will always obey your commands. They can't argue, don't have a choice, so it is up to the player/character how much personality is appropriate.

Yeah, it is a question about whether it is summoned again or whether a new one is summoned. If it says, as you suggest, that it is summoned again... I would say it is sumoned again and isn't a new one.

[Corran]

On the plus side, if the GM is ruling that summoning an outsider essentially involves planar travel, they might also rule that private sanctum does not allow the elemental/fiend/etc to disappear? Definitely hard to pretend something like that would be RAW (although I seems a reasonable interpretation, provided we are already ruling that planar travel is indeed involved), as both the wording of spells like conjure elemental (which use the word 'disappear') and the wording of private sanctum (which states ''planar travel within the area'') are not 100% in support of that interpretation. Bah....

[xroads]

While i agree that, in general, summoning spells do in fact summon from somewhere, the Conjuration school is explicitly not limited to "moving things".

"Some conjurations create objects or effects out of nothing." (phb, 203)

One such example is Create Food and Water.

I think Create Food & Water could still work just fine with conjuration being all about movement. Guilded Age has a great example of this. In the below linked scene, one character describes conjuring as "stealing" food from somewhere else randomly.

http://guildedage.net/comic/chapter-15-page-18/

[Man_Over_Game]

On the plus side, if the GM is ruling that summoning an outsider essentially involves planar travel, they might also rule that private sanctum does not allow the elemental/fiend/etc to disappear? Definitely hard to pretend something like that would be RAW (although I seems a reasonable interpretation, provided we are already ruling that planar travel is indeed involved), as both the wording of spells like conjure elemental (which use the word 'disappear') and the wording of private sanctum (which states ''planar travel within the area'') are not 100% in support of that interpretation. Bah....

I kind of always interpreted Elementals/Celestials/Fiends as being sort of...Avatars? Kinda like how Gods work in DnD, killing them doesn't actually kill them, but instead just sends them back to their original plane. However, if you kill them on their original plane, they're dead for realsies.

So in my head, Elementals are always connected to their Elemental Plane, and severing that connection simply causes their "Avatar" next to you to cease to exist. This seems to be supported by a few things in DnD, like how the Revised Ranger's companion works., or like how summoned creatures don't leave corpses when they die.